Help with Scripture about Trinity

[Reformed_Rob]

Hey, I’m trying to help a friend see some Scriptural points relating to the Theology of the Body.

There’s one thing that I’m weak on. Ok, there’s more than one, but one thing I’m asking for help on…

What’s a good verse or set of verses to make a sound argument that the Holy Spirit is the Person resulting from the love between the Father and the Son?

I keep coming up dry, and everything I read on it from a Catholic source, just doesn’t give much Scripture. It seems to be a philosophical/theological leap. And I don’t think it’s wrong, I believe it, but I just need some Scriptural support to make a good point.

Thanks!

 

[Ignatius]

Hey, I’m trying to help a friend see some Scriptural points relating to the Theology of the Body.

There’s one thing that I’m weak on. Ok, there’s more than one, but one thing I’m asking for help on…

What’s a good verse or set of verses to make a sound argument that the Holy Spirit is the Person resulting from the love between the Father and the Son?

I keep coming up dry, and everything I read on it from a Catholic source, just doesn’t give much Scripture. It seems to be a philosophical/theological leap. And I don’t think it’s wrong, I believe it, but I just need some Scriptural support to make a good point.

Thanks!

There isn’t much in the way of Scripture. But the bible itself never claims to be the sole rule of faith nor does it claim that everything necessary is in the bible. Actually, like so much in the early Church, the doctrine of the Trinity came down to us more via Sacred Tradition, although it is alluded to in scripture it is not explicitly stated as clearly as other doctrines, such as the Eucharist being the Body and Blood of Christ. However, it can be discerned from scripture that it was believed. For example Jesus told the Apostles to go out and preach the Gospel to the world, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Hope this helps.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

There isn’t much in the way of Scripture.

Thanks Ignatius.

I’m hoping for a Biblical argument to aid in this. It’s not a necessity at this time, but it would be nice.

Maybe something that the Fathers used in their teaching. Maybe I should make a post in the Eastern Orthodox section to get what the Father’s taught on this.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

People like Christopher West (big Theology of the Body speaker) point out passages like:
31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." [Gn 2:24] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. - Eph 5
Other places like Jn 14:15-17; 15:26; 16:12-15 come to mind.

 

[epostle]

This will help unpack CDude’s verses:

catholic-legate.com/articles/antitrinity.html

 

[ryanoneil]

I’m not very familiar with the theology of the body, so I’m not sure just what your looking for. Maybe these will help.

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always,

John 14:26 The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name–he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you.

John 15:26 "When the Advocate comes whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, he will testify to me.

John 16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

These verses shows that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son. The Father isn’t just loving the Son; the Son is loving the Father in return, in the same Spirit of love. Therefore, the Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son.

Rom 15:30 I urge you, (brothers,) by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in the struggle by your prayers to God on my behalf,

This show the Holy Spirit is a person (rational being) that can love.

Hopefully some of those help.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[The_Truthinator]

Consider the Nicene Creed (with the filioque clause intact): “We believe in the Holy Spirit… who proceeds from the Father and/through the Son.”

(There is a passage in John which says that the Spirit proceeds from the Father, which could be taken in a multiplicity of ways, FYI.)

If we understand the Father’s relationship with the Son as being eternal, then we must rightfully give consideration to the love a father showers upon his son. Now we know that “Deus es Caritas”–God is love. Therefore, the Father’s Love for the Son can be understood as a Being, another Person in the Eternal Family: the Spirit.

Parallel to this is marrital love. A husband and wife’s love for each other is so strong that it generates life. Remember that the unity of the two is an imperfect picture of the Unity of the Three, relaying to us a piece of the Divine Mystery. Likewise, applying this parallel to the Divine Family, we can understand that the child’s equivalent in this scenario would, logically, be the Spirit.

I hope this helps and wasn’t confusing or superfluous…

 

[agangbern]

Hey, I’m trying to help a friend see some Scriptural points relating to the Theology of the Body.

There’s one thing that I’m weak on. Ok, there’s more than one, but one thing I’m asking for help on…

What’s a good verse or set of verses to make a sound argument that the Holy Spirit is the Person resulting from the love between the Father and the Son?

I keep coming up dry, and everything I read on it from a Catholic source, just doesn’t give much Scripture. It seems to be a philosophical/theological leap. And I don’t think it’s wrong, I believe it, but I just need some Scriptural support to make a good point.

Thanks!

Are you looking for scriptural proof that the Holy Spirit is God or a proof that the Holy Spirit is the result of the union of the Father and the Son as in a child is the result of the union of husband and wife?

 

[Reformed_Rob]

Are you looking for scriptural proof that the Holy Spirit is God or a proof that the Holy Spirit is the result of the union of the Father and the Son as in a child is the result of the union of husband and wife?

Hi, thanks everyone for your contributions!

Agangbern, I’m not in need of Scriptural proof in the sense that I am doubting this. I am looking for Scriptural premises to support the statement that “the Spirit is Love between the Father and the Son.”

As far as I’m aware, this is an extra-Scriptural assumption. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong, and I believe it is correct because it is what the Church teaches. I’m simply hoping someone can share a passage or two from Scripture that I can share with others regarding this topic.

The double procession of the Spirit is related, but it is not exactly what I’m looking for.

 

[Nita]

You might read the following two articles from St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologica:

First Article: Whether “Love” is the Proper Name of the Holy Ghost
Second Article: Whether the Father and the Son Love Each Other by the Holy Ghost

You’ll find the articles here:
www.newadvent.org/summa/1037.htm

Nita

 

[Reformed_Rob]

You might read the following two articles from St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologica:

First Article: Whether “Love” is the Proper Name of the Holy Ghost
Second Article: Whether the Father and the Son Love Each Other by the Holy Ghost

You’ll find the articles here:
www.newadvent.org/summa/1037.htm

Nita

Great,

I’ll check into those articles!

 

[John_Hiner]

Hey, I’m trying to help a friend see some Scriptural points relating to the Theology of the Body.

There’s one thing that I’m weak on. Ok, there’s more than one, but one thing I’m asking for help on…

What’s a good verse or set of verses to make a sound argument that the Holy Spirit is the Person resulting from the love between the Father and the Son?

I keep coming up dry, and everything I read on it from a Catholic source, just doesn’t give much Scripture. It seems to be a philosophical/theological leap. And I don’t think it’s wrong, I believe it, but I just need some Scriptural support to make a good point.

Thanks!

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

This might be worth looking at: scripturecatholic.com/the_holy_spirit.html

Pax Christi tecum.

John Hiner

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The Biblical Basis of the
Doctrine of the Trinity:
An Outline Study

By Robert M. Bowman, Jr.
apologetics.com

spotlightministries.org.uk/bowmanonthetrinity.htm

Romans 8

1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.