HELP - With Scripture for a Marian reference in the Lumen Gentium

[JRKH]

In a discussion on another board, I had posted excerpts from Lumen Gentium to clarify Mary’s position as related to Jesus as sole mediator.
As a result someone has asked for some Scriptural clarification on a passage contained in Para 60 of Lumen Gentium. As I felt unqualified to answer this question, I decided to bring the matter to the good people here at CAF.

The statement in LG pg 60 is:
“For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure.”

Which prompted this question:
James,
Please share the scriptures that teach us of Mary’s salvific influence on men.

All (name removed by moderator)ut is welcome.

Peace
James

 

[Joe_5859]

I don’t know that there’s a convenient, explicit scriptural prooftext that you could provide that would settle the dispute immediately. If only…

For me, it goes back to the role of Mary as the Queen Mother. The idea of the Queen Mother goes back to the Old Testament (particularly with Solomon and his mother Bathsheba).

 

[JRKH]

I agree. There is references to the “Queen Mother” in the OT but I am not clear on these so hopefully others can illuminate it.

Scripturally, within the Church, Mary’s influence would be seen as her complete submission to God’s Will in her life. Her obedience and great faith. (Be it done to me according to His will (Luke 1:38)) Also her statement to the servants at Cana, “Do whatever He tells you” (John 2:5) is something that the Church points to as Mary’s instruction to us.

I hope others will chime in.

Peace
James

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Hard question, but I’ll give it a try (N.B: My answer is is “way out there”, if you get what I mean).

One way we can determine that Mary has a salvific influence on Mankind is based on Mary being the “new Eve”, and Mary is the “new Eve” by virtue of the fact that Mary was created “full of grace” (Luke 1:28) and was obedient to God (Luke 1:38).

Because Mary is the new Eve, she is the mother of all Humanity (John 19:27). In the Old Testament, the blessings (a form of prayer) imparted by parents onto their children was distinct in that it often influenced the course of that child’s life. Isaac blessed Jacob (Genesis 27:22), and Jacob was in turn blessed by God, being nicknamed “Israel” (Genesis 32:28). As Mary is the mother of all humanity, her prayers have a salvific influence upon Mankind, in much the same way as the prayers of Old Testament parents had influence on their children. And because Mary is righteous in God’s sight, her prayers are primarily effective (James 5:16).

We can also use logical opposition to determine that Mary has a salvific influence on Mankind. Eve is the mother of all Humanity*, but her sin (rebellion against God) influenced Mankind and introduced death (Romans 5:12). Compare this to Mary’s obedience to God, which introduced salvation to Mankind (Luke 1:31-32) through Jesus.

So we find that common adage that we can’t understand the New Testament without the Old Testament.

*Strictly speaking, Mary is the “mother of all living”, whilst Eve is given the title of the “mother of all humanity”.

:coffeeread:

 

[pablope]

In a discussion on another board, I had posted excerpts from Lumen Gentium to clarify Mary’s position as related to Jesus as sole mediator.
As a result someone has asked for some Scriptural clarification on a passage contained in Para 60 of Lumen Gentium. As I felt unqualified to answer this question, I decided to bring the matter to the good people here at CAF.

The statement in LG pg 60 is:
“For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure.”

Which prompted this question:
James,
Please share the scriptures that teach us of Mary’s salvific influence on men.

All (name removed by moderator)ut is welcome.

Peace
James

Try these:

scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html

davidmacd.com/catholic/mary_in_the_bible.htm

 

[CalCatholic]

Hard question, but I’ll give it a try (N.B: My answer is is “way out there”, if you get what I mean).

One way we can determine that Mary has a salvific influence on Mankind is based on Mary being the “new Eve”, and Mary is the “new Eve” by virtue of the fact that Mary was created “full of grace” (Luke 1:28) and was obedient to God (Luke 1:38).

Because Mary is the new Eve, she is the mother of all Humanity (John 19:27). In the Old Testament, the blessings (a form of prayer) imparted by parents onto their children was distinct in that it often influenced the course of that child’s life. Isaac blessed Jacob (Genesis 27:22), and Jacob was in turn blessed by God, being nicknamed “Israel” (Genesis 32:28). As Mary is the mother of all humanity, her prayers have a salvific influence upon Mankind, in much the same way as the prayers of Old Testament parents had influence on their children. And because Mary is righteous in God’s sight, her prayers are primarily effective (James 5:16).

We can also use logical opposition to determine that Mary has a salvific influence on Mankind. Eve is the mother of all Humanity*, but her sin (rebellion against God) influenced Mankind and introduced death (Romans 5:12). Compare this to Mary’s obedience to God, which introduced salvation to Mankind (Luke 1:31-32) through Jesus.

So we find that common adage that we can’t understand the New Testament without the Old Testament.

*Strictly speaking, Mary is the “mother of all living”, whilst Eve is given the title of the “mother of all humanity”.

:coffeeread:

Not bad for an Atheist There is a book out by Steve Kellmeyer called ‘Bible Basics’ that uses this approach of gleaning from the OT and the NT to provide proof for Catholic doctrines.

 

[perdido1144]

Which prompted this question:
James,
Please share the scriptures that teach us of Mary’s salvific influence on men.

All (name removed by moderator)ut is welcome.

Peace
James

Presupposing that all doctrine MUST be biblically based. The Catholic position - as is expressed in the Bible itself - is and has always been that the rule of faith includes both the Bible and the apostolic tradition, as expressed through the magisterium. As another Vatican II document states,

" . . . there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end." – Dei Verbum

Not to say that the apostolic tradition contradicts the Bible - it doesn’t - but it certainly supports and supplements it, even in doctrinal matters.

 

[JRKH]

Presupposing that all doctrine MUST be biblically based. The Catholic position - as is expressed in the Bible itself - is and has always been that the rule of faith includes both the Bible and the apostolic tradition, as expressed through the magisterium. As another Vatican II document states,

" . . . there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end." – Dei Verbum

Not to say that the apostolic tradition contradicts the Bible - it doesn’t - but it certainly supports and supplements it, even in doctrinal matters.

Well the issue is not about the Tradition… I was just trying to get info that would help this person to understand the statement…

Peace
James