Help with Sedevacantism

[pianistclare]

I can’t imagine why anyone would want to associate with a group that spreads falsehoods and divides. That, in and of itself is contrary to the Gospel message.

My 2 cents.

 

[SnoopSword]

Sedevacantism is essentially a form of Protestantism

Debatable. The Protestants involved Monarchies and state property.

These real ‘protestors’ ARE those brave heroes such as the SSPX who risk everything to help you and me. I consider them to be inside - not outside. Yes I agree they’re in error, but logically a protesting party in the Church must have always been there (1 Cor 11). Imagine if we had no such ‘divisions’? Have they hurt or helped the Faith?

And didnt they have a couple of Eucharist miracles? Cant remember…

 

[Melchior_1]

These real ‘protestors’ ARE those brave heroes such as the SSPX who risk everything to help you and me.

I’m sorry, but I don’t find anything particularly brave about flagrantly disobeying lawful and valid authority, especially after valid canonical excommunications and validly having faculties universally suspended for many years.

 

[pnewton]

These real ‘protestors’ ARE those brave heroes such as the SSPX who risk everything to help you and me.

Their beginning by standing in defiance of St. John Paul the Great is all I need to know about them. Whether it was bravery or arrogance is for God to sort out.

 

[SnoopSword]

I’m sorry, but I don’t find anything particularly brave about flagrantly disobeying lawful and valid authority, especially after valid canonical excommunications and validly having faculties universally suspended for many years.

Yes but this should demonstrate the very generous and liberal Freedoms we have in Christ and his Church. Look at Galileo as an example of the very liberal Freedoms the Church tolerates. The Church has a 2000 year history of turning the other cheek, saving face of those who are in error, and a continuos offer of reconciliation and forgiveness (unless Christ himself has decreed a very specific religious group to be God’s enemies that are beyond the offer of reconciliation so we actively do not offer it to them). Are such Freedoms available in any other religions/traditions like Judaism, Islam, Masonry, or Anabaptists?

Actually, there is a correlation between LACK of freedoms, and ‘hard’ apostasy (‘soft apostasy’ is the grey area). With Anabaptists, If you disagree with a PORTION of the preacher’s eschatology, that is enough to get you kicked-out or shunned-out of their group. That person then starts another group and takes people with him, and crafts their own new religion. And it divides and divides to 40,000 different Popes and Faith’s. This CONTINOUS division from the Anabaptists is part of their NATURE. It is fueled by the SEVERE lack of freedoms in their cults (a core sign of a cult is a lack of personal freedom and individuality).

No Christian walking the earth has the amount of personal Freedoms and Liberties as the Catholic. Those who are brave enough to protest and be disobedient children can do so, because I believe God will protect the Church. But they must never allow themselves to fall into hard apostasy. They must never be fully on the outside. Their hearts must be pure in what they believe. And yes the SSPX are true heros in my opinion. Among the bravest of men. To hear one of the French Fr. say “We want the real Catholicism”… I dont know all their names, but I think very highly of them. True heroes risking it all to help safeguard the Faith and be a reminder.

A far cry from the Reformers who attempted to trim the fat and modernize the Faith. All that happened with Protestants was LESS Freedoms, less Liberty, more bondage.

 

[Melchior_1]

If you want a true hero, look at Saint Francis and Saint Dominic. Both wanted reformation within the Church, both did so without being validly excommunicated, without having their clergy having their faculties validly removed universally, and were never in the “shoe foyer” (half in, half out). The norm for the Sacraments administered by their clergy wasn’t invalid or illicit, unlike the SSPX whose Sacraments by default are either invalid (marriage, confirmation), illicit (Eucharist, ordination).

Dominic was told “use the Rule of Augustine” when he wanted to use his own Rule, and did just that. And he wasn’t upset or raised a huge fuss when a couple of weeks later Francis got to use his own Rule. That’s heroic.

There are ways to protest, sure. There are ways to rebel. But there is nothing heroic about being in the position they are in now, nor is there anything heroic about the actions that led them to this point. The offer for the Prelature was on the table, and was exceptionally generous. And it wasn’t even the first time something like this was offered!

Frankly, if it wasn’t a “trad” group and more of a “liberal” group, then traditionalists would be incredibly upset about the whole thing and wouldn’t paint them as pillars within the Church.

So no, as much as I can understand the position, I would certainly not classify them as heroes.