Help with showing respect

[JetteZ]

I have been reading Love & Respect and I feel like I am missing some key to understand how to act respectfully.

I think the book does an excellent job of explaining how to be respectful and show admiration outside of conflict; but, during conflict or difficult conversations I’m at a loss. The book seems to focus on not engaging in obviously disrespectful behaviors I don’t do. I don’t call my husband names, yell, or make fun of him. I don’t compare him to others. Yet, during difficult conversations and dispite my best efforts, I come accross as disrespectful or that I don’t like him (when nothing could be further from the truth).

What are less obvious disrespectful behaviors or attitudes that I may be doing?

How can I be respectful when what I am saying is going to be unpleasant to hear?

 

[Mollymultiple160]

Well what IS it that you’re doing? Sorry, I’m not married, so I can’t really help husbandwise, but it seems to me that men in general are kind of sensitive to things like a “strident” tone of voice, which can annoy them. Can you give examples?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I have been reading Love & Respect and I feel like I am missing some key to understand how to act respectfully.

I think the book does an excellent job of explaining how to be respectful and show admiration outside of conflict; but, during conflict or difficult conversations I’m at a loss. The book seems to focus on not engaging in obviously disrespectful behaviors I don’t do. I don’t call my husband names, yell, or make fun of him. I don’t compare him to others. Yet, during difficult conversations and dispite my best efforts, I come accross as disrespectful or that I don’t like him (when nothing could be further from the truth).

What are less obvious disrespectful behaviors or attitudes that I may be doing?

How can I be respectful when what I am saying is going to be unpleasant to hear?

Perhaps it might be helpful to see a professional rather than a book. People who are well trained can pick up on nuiances of facial expressions or lack thereof.

For instance, what does your face look like at rest. Are you generally approchable or do you have “RBF” (resting B* face). That may be something to work on.

What kind of vocabulary are you using? Do you go from normal, everyday speech to “Queen’s English” and proper so you are seen as better or do you talk as if you were punishing a small child? Both can be infuriating.

Why do you think you are disrespectful? Do you cut him off? Do you simply cry? Do you shoot down an idea just because he said it?

What are your thoughts?

And sometimes, you might have to consider that there is no “respectful” way to say something that isn’t pleasant. Sometimes, we both have to “lay down the law” with no room for if’s and’s and buts.

Here are two examples, one DH asks and one I ask.

“Do NOT use the kitchen scissors for cutting anything but food or food packaging. Do not put them away if you cut cardboard, wash them. They MUST stay sanitary because they are used to cut food.”

“Leave a spot to make sandwiches. My time is very limited, and when the counters are full there is not enough space. It would be best if the counter stayed clear from the flour jar to the wall. That’s enough space, it’s not a lot, but it should be consistently clean every day.”

We both spoke harshly. We both had a valid reason. We both ended up getting the thing we needed to happen, to happen. Sometimes that’s the reality of married life…really just laying it all out there without the “respectful” ovature.

 

[JetteZ]

The last derail was over FB political forums. I was trying to understand what he finds enjoyable about them because for me they are way too spiteful. I think I said something like, “I have to leave those things alone, they always seem to get so mean. What value do you find in them?” I said it in a very friendly way and when he answered I said that I never would have thought about it like that and that his perspective is really different from mine. That translated that I was judging him from his FB affiliations and thought less of him.

I was just trying to understand him better.

 

[JetteZ]

This is tough; I’m trying to replay my actions…

I think I’m generally approachable.

Typically, if DH is expressing displeasure, I look down or away.

I talk with more stops and starts when I get upset. I don’t want to let my emotions run away and I may need to take a second or two to order my thoughts. Sometimes I close my eyes for a second and say a quick silent prayer.

When I feel vulnerable I cry. My father did not allow dissent so conflict produces a lot of anxiety for me and when that feeling is overwhelming I cry.

I feel like I am being disrespectful because DH is telling me he feels disrespected and that I don’t like him (when I am talking about something difficult). He hasn’t told me at the time though which makes it difficult for me to understand what I’m doing.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

This is tough; I’m trying to replay my actions…

I think I’m generally approachable.

Typically, if DH is expressing displeasure, I look down or away.

I talk with more stops and starts when I get upset. I don’t want to let my emotions run away and I may need to take a second or two to order my thoughts. Sometimes I close my eyes for a second and say a quick silent prayer.

When I feel vulnerable I cry. My father did not allow dissent so conflict produces a lot of anxiety for me and when that feeling is overwhelming I cry.

I feel like I am being disrespectful because DH is telling me he feels disrespected and that I don’t like him (when I am talking about something difficult). He hasn’t told me at the time though which makes it difficult for me to understand what I’m doing.

I think that you do need professional help. You have baggage from your past that is really clouding your vision. It is skewing how you look at yourself, how you look at DH and how you view eachother. It will affect how you raise your kids–people in abuse tend to fall too dramatically to one side or the other. My MIL was raised with a dad who never took any crud and never listened to feelings (until she was much older) and so she overcompensated with her daughter who’s now, quite frankly, a total witch.

DH and I went to counseling to address that even before we had children. He needed affirmation in regards to his mother’s always giving into his sisters demands (no matter how ludicrous) and how it affected him.

I think it is reflected in his “now” parenting. He is both able to be empathetic, but also lay down rules and not be manipulated by tears.

“5 Love languages” the book can be helpful when a couple is talking about “disrespect”. For instance, it seems perhaps your husband is very high on “words of affection” which means that you must be very careful becuase his love comes from kind words, and his understanding of your love can be very harmed by words. If you are say, gifts or touch or acts of kindness, you may not realize the degree to which it affects him. It would be like not hugging a person who needs touch for weeks at a time because it never occurs to you.

 

[Mollymultiple160]

Well, I’ve heard it said that men thrive on conflict, so maybe that’s why he likes political things. Sports too. I used to sit around with guy friends while they watched football and wonder what they got out of it since it was so boring to me. Maybe to guys it’s a nonviolent way of satisfying some primal urge to fight. Most of my friends in life have been guys and I’ve noticed that sometimes they really like to fight (sometimes physically and even with their friends or siblings). They just do it and go back to being friends, mostly. Or even maybe just argue and sort of one-up each other or tease/put each other down or embarass each other. To me it would seem awful but they never seemed to mind the way I would if it was me.

And not even just fighting but even if like…they’re sophisticated or wealthy or really intelligent or something, they still seem to really enjoy having gone to a more prestigious university or having a nicer car or prettier girlfriend than the other guy, even if they don’t seem to overtly flaunt it.

Another thing I’ve noticed, and it is only my perceptions here, is that they can be very…I dunno if defensive is the right word, or maybe protective, of their egos. By ego I mean their sense of self, not ego like how people mean pride or whatever…anyone who can say “I” has at least one, and people often “identify” with their tastes, interests, and other things that aren’t really “them”, but it seems to be a part of them. Not just guys.

(Please dudes, correct me if I’m totally wrong here because I really don’t know how guys “operate” and if I’m way wrong it won’t surprise me, it’s only how it seems to me as an observer, and probably not the sharpest one, sorry if I’m off base and being offensive)

SO, when you asked him what does he get out of that? He probably took it to heart and felt you meant “what’s wrong with you that you would actually like this?” Maybe he identifies in some way with that interest, and could sense your distaste for it, and so perhaps that is why he felt like you didn’t “like him” or accept him. I mean when you ask why he likes it, already there is an unspoken understanding that you don’t like it (or you wouldn’t need to ask)…even in or especially in a friendlier tone than say when you ask what time it is, it could be seen as masking a criticism or a disapproval of his hobby (and therefore him)

But I can see how you didn’t mean to upset him and also how he would be upset by that. Maybe since you’re his woman, he wants you to really look up to him and admire him (or at least accept the things about him you aren’t into)…hm… Kinda maybe like peacocks and their feathers. Maybe a few feathers are grey or small or got bit by some critter, but even if not every feather is perfect, they’re still HIS feathers, and they’re important, and he has to show them. Maybe he likes showing them off more than the peahen likes to see them, but he’s still doing it for her. And they make a nest and all. But, I guess, if the peahen don’t like some of the feathers, or pecks at them, maybe he feels like he ain’t the best peacock around, or has ugly feathers, and that his peahen don’t love him. Birds, idk.

 

[JetteZ]

I think that you do need professional help. You have baggage from your past that is really clouding your vision. It is skewing how you look at yourself, how you look at DH and how you view eachother. It will affect how you raise your kids–people in abuse tend to fall too dramatically to one side or the other. My MIL was raised with a dad who never took any crud and never listened to feelings (until she was much older) and so she overcompensated with her daughter who’s now, quite frankly, a total witch.

DH and I went to counseling to address that even before we had children. He needed affirmation in regards to his mother’s always giving into his sisters demands (no matter how ludicrous) and how it affected him.

I think it is reflected in his “now” parenting. He is both able to be empathetic, but also lay down rules and not be manipulated by tears.

“5 Love languages” the book can be helpful when a couple is talking about “disrespect”. For instance, it seems perhaps your husband is very high on “words of affection” which means that you must be very careful becuase his love comes from kind words, and his understanding of your love can be very harmed by words. If you are say, gifts or touch or acts of kindness, you may not realize the degree to which it affects him. It would be like not hugging a person who needs touch forzi weeks at a time because it never occurs to you.

I attended counseling after my parents divorce (high school/college) and various times since then; primarily to aid in times of transition like right after marriage and after our first was born. I am, per my past therapist, very well adjusted. That is to say, I’m not opposed to counseling; I just don’t think this problem meets the litmus test for professional intervention. Perhaps we would come to realizations more quickly; but, due to scheduling limitations, financial considerations and the lack of severity of the problem it feels more practical to stumble about on our own for now.

I am aware of how, in your words, my vision becomes clouded; however, it is limited to times of high anxiety and I don’t think that is grossly abnormal.

I’m not sure if we read all of 5 Love Languages or perhaps just took the test… I have a vague recollection. I remember that DH is “Acts of Service” and “Physical Affection” and I am “Words of Affection.”

In reading over your response I do think that (I think this is Love Language wording), in the past, I had not done a particularly good job filling his “Respect” bucket and that this book has given him the language to vent those past frustrations. Although good in the abstract being on the real life receiving end of hearing a litany of past transgressions isn’t particularly pleasant. He does agree that I have improved but I think he needed me to understand his past hurt.

 

[1ke]

The last derail was over FB political forums. I was trying to understand what he finds enjoyable about them because for me they are way too spiteful. I think I said something like, “I have to leave those things alone, they always seem to get so mean. What value do you find in them?” I said it in a very friendly way and when he answered I said that I never would have thought about it like that and that his perspective is really different from mine. That translated that I was judging him from his FB affiliations and thought less of him.

I was just trying to understand him better.

Have you ever stopped to think it’s not you, it’s him?

You are trying so hard to not be “disrespectful” but it takes two to tango. If he is going to interpret what you described above as “disrespectful” then I would say that’s on him not you.

He seems determined to take things you say in an offensive manner. So, yeah, he also needs to be part of some sort of facilitated discussion with you and a counselor if he is determined to think the worst of whatever you say.

 

[JetteZ]

His actions are not above reproach (he isn’t oblivious to that); however, I am responsible for my part in any escalation and want to better understand my contributions to discord as I am aware that it is a flaw I need to correct.

Please trust that he is working as hard as I am to improve our communications and ensure he is meeting my needs. He has found it exceedingly difficult to explain what exactly he is seeing which is why I felt it appropriate to ask for others (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

His actions are not above reproach (he isn’t oblivious to that); however, I am responsible for my part in any escalation and want to better understand my contributions to discord as I am aware that it is a flaw I need to correct.

Please trust that he is working as hard as I am to improve our communications and ensure he is meeting my needs. He has found it exceedingly difficult to explain what exactly he is seeing which is why I felt it appropriate to ask for others (name removed by moderator)ut.

If this is just one bone of contention between the two of you (his forum activities) why not just let it go? Think of a few prases to use that are nice but end the conversation.

“Sounds like you made a good point”
“intersting, I think that speaks to the point well”
“Oh, I wouldn’t of thought that way, but good job”

Said in a non-condesendign voice, using a planned out thought might help you avoid heat of the moment harshness you don’t intend.

 

[JetteZ]

His forum activities aren’t a bone of contention; I wanted to understand the value he derives from them. He did so but felt like I was deriding his choice of activities. I only mentioned it as I was asked to give an example of a discussion that went off rails.

I think I’m beginning to see that part of the issue is my approach. Instead of, “Why do you…” Perhaps, I should have broached the subject more like: “Hey, I know work gets crazy stressful and you need time to relax or just think about something else. Is that what [Political Forum or whatever] does for you?”

I thought that making a judgement on his behavior to be disrespectful and I should leave it completely open to him; however, perhaps it is best if he hears my internal assumed good intent. Then, whatever his response, I can use one of the lines you posted above (or something similar) so that he hears that I respect his response.

Like, if he says; “Not really, I like politics and reading these things, even the more extreme postings, gives me a better understanding of what’s going on in the world.” I could say, “Oh, I wouldn’t have thought about it like that. I find I feel disheartened reading too much of that kind of stuff. It can feel so hateful. I know you aren’t hateful, I find you try to be very empathetic; so, this sounds like another kind of empathy. Am I understanding that correctly?”

Kind of sandwiching the positive thoughts and reasons I respect him around questions and comments.

 

[Katie777]

I agree with 1ke.
This is a communication issue between both of u.

If you feel you sometimes say the wrong. things, just tell him “that came out wrong.”

If he personalizes alot of things you say, he’s sensitive.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

His forum activities aren’t a bone of contention; I wanted to understand the value he derives from them. He did so but felt like I was deriding his choice of activities. I only mentioned it as I was asked to give an example of a discussion that went off rails.

I think I’m beginning to see that part of the issue is my approach. Instead of, “Why do you…” Perhaps, I should have broached the subject more like: “Hey, I know work gets crazy stressful and you need time to relax or just think about something else. Is that what [Political Forum or whatever] does for you?”

I thought that making a judgement on his behavior to be disrespectful and I should leave it completely open to him; however, perhaps it is best if he hears my internal assumed good intent. Then, whatever his response, I can use one of the lines you posted above (or something similar) so that he hears that I respect his response.

Like, if he says; “Not really, I like politics and reading these things, even the more extreme postings, gives me a better understanding of what’s going on in the world.” I could say, “Oh, I wouldn’t have thought about it like that. I find I feel disheartened reading too much of that kind of stuff. It can feel so hateful. I know you aren’t hateful, I find you try to be very empathetic; so, this sounds like another kind of empathy. Am I understanding that correctly?”

Kind of sandwiching the positive thoughts and reasons I respect him around questions and comments.

Why are you so set on “understanding” him when it comes to forums? Why can’t you just leave well enough alone? I think that might be part of the issue. He just wants to go off and blow off some steam. You’re trying to turn it into some great psychological need to express himself or whatnot.

My husband doesn’t understand why I like going on forums. But he doesn’t try to cross-examine me. I’d be really annoyed if he was trying to derive some meaning out of it that just wasn’t there. You know? My free time, kids are set, he doesn’t need me, he’s also relaxing so just let me do my thing. Without interrupting as to my motivations.

I don’t question why he likes reading webcomics, even though he spends the same amount of time reading webcomics in the evening that I do on forums.

He likes them. That’s all. I don’t need some great powerful self-enlighting meaning behind webcomics.

If he’s neglecting his family life for forums, then that’s another issue, but if he just wants some free time and it’s appropriate that he has it (ie not taking from you or the children), let the guy have some free time.

I think the issue here is that you are trying to assign purpose and meaning to something that he wants to go into “mindless” mode and just do.

 

[JetteZ]

I had posted about a conversation that went off rails so I used that same example as to how, perhaps, I could have handled the conversation better.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I had posted about a conversation that went off rails so I used that same example as to how, perhaps, I could have handled the conversation better.

I think the issue is not the conversation but the fact you’re finding the need to press him into a conversation when he would rather just be alone and have some downtime.

The disrespect that is being given is because you want to just this as a “get to know you” opportunity and he seems to simply want blanket approval or to be left alone. Again, if his activites are not interfering with family life, why press him on them?

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Like, if he says; “Not really, I like politics and reading these things, even the more extreme postings, gives me a better understanding of what’s going on in the world.” I could say, “Oh, I wouldn’t have thought about it like that. I find I feel disheartened reading too much of that kind of stuff. It can feel so hateful. I know you aren’t hateful, I find you try to be very empathetic; so, this sounds like another kind of empathy. Am I understanding that correctly?”

Kind of sandwiching the positive thoughts and reasons I respect him around questions and comments.

No, no, no. That is road to nowhere, IMO.

You both have to get used to each other. It’s that simple. Your husband likes different things than you…you could spend the next 50 years trying to figure out why he likes something and what he gets out of it…good luck with that - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. He has to do the same for you.

Also, both of you must learn to depersonalize comments like the one you made. If you all don’t, you’ll be in for years of misery. In relation to not personalizing things, but more important than that is to not ever do anything to spite your spouse - spite is always personal.

 

[JetteZ]

With all due respect, you are taking a lot of liberty when filling in the details. What gave you the impression I was pressing him into conversation during down time?

If specifics are important, we were at Sam’s Club buying bulk TP. My mom watches the kids for us to go shopping together on the weekend. We have found it a good time to catch up as we aren’t too tired (like post bedtime) and aren’t distracted by kids or household responsibilities. It’s a time we can focus on each other… and toilet paper.

I can understand why it would be annoying to press him when he is watching a football game or some other type of activity he enjoys. I don’t think I have done that but it’s certainly possible and will keep it in mind for the future.

 

[JetteZ]

I feel like this conversation would have been more productive if I hadn’t given an example.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

With all due respect, you are taking a lot of liberty when filling in the details. What gave you the impression I was pressing him into conversation during down time?

If specifics are important, we were at Sam’s Club buying bulk TP. My mom watches the kids for us to go shopping together on the weekend. We have found it a good time to catch up as we aren’t too tired (like post bedtime) and aren’t distracted by kids or household responsibilities. It’s a time we can focus on each other… and toilet paper.

I can understand why it would be annoying to press him when he is watching a football game or some other type of activity he enjoys. I don’t think I have done that but it’s certainly possible and will keep it in mind for the future.

No. I don’t think you get my point.

You can’t be disrespectful if you aren’t having a conversation in the first place. You keep pressing him into conversations he doesn’t want to have–under the guise of “getting to know him better”. He doesn’t want to talk about it, at least in the way you are discussing it. Maybe he would like to brag at a verbal victory or laugh at a verbal throw down, but perhaps to him, that’s it.

If these conversations aren’t pivotal to relationship issues (his free time isn’t) then perhaps you just need to notice when he really doesn’t want to engage on a subject/issue and drop it. If it’s actually important…then it’s ok to press…but his feelings on his free time activities aren’t something that you really need to know to have a solid marriage.

I see two divergent trains of thought

You- “if he wants me to know and respect him, I need to know his deepest thoughts”
Him-“if she wanted to respect me she’d stop trying to get at my deepest thoughts and trust that I tell her what she needs to know”