Help with the death penalty

[Gordon_Sims]

I’ve been working hard at getting fully back in communion with the Church over the last few years, after having fallen away a bit during college, and struggling with my relationship with the Church for several years after that. I’ve had to overcome my not-so-good catechesis from my youth, differing opinions from family & friends and incorrect advice from a handful of priests. I’ve made great strides, but the one thing I’m having a hard time with is reconciling my personal beliefs with those of the Church in regards to the death penalty.

I know we’re supposed to be fully open to life, and part of that is to oppose the death penalty except in cases where there is truly no alternative (of which there aren’t too many valid examples out there). I’ve always been an ardent supporter of it, however, and only grew stronger in my convictions over the years after reading a lot of true-crime accounts of some truly despicable people, all of which led me to view this as a just reward for their actions.

I’ve done a great deal of praying on this over the last few months and while I now see the Church’s point of view more clearly than before, I’m still struggling with accepting it. If anyone had some advice for me, I’d be glad to listen.

 

[ANNE_2]

Depending on the situtation differences of opinion can be OK.

" 3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.
For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion.
While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment.
There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia. "

See: " Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion "
General Principles by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm

As someone who is a Revert, I found and find, the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” first published in the USA in March 2000 to be most helpful. (Dark green cover)

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Depending on the situtation differences of opinion can be OK.

" 3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.
For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion.
While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment.
There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia. "

See: " Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion "
General Principles by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm

As someone who is a Revert, I found and find, the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” first published in the USA in March 2000 to be most helpful. (Dark green cover)

Thanks for the info! That definitely makes me feel a bit better, although I’m still doing my best to get my views on this to line up a bit better with the Church. I feel a bit hypocritical telling people I’m open to life and in line with the Church, but I still support the death penalty. It makes me feel like I’m no better than my friend who tells me all the time that she’s a much better Catholic than I am, even though she supports Planned Parenthood.

 

[ANNE_2]

This may help.
The “Death Penalty” can be used to protect the lives of others.

The “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” is the most helpful book ever written to insure we live up to the teaching of our faith in all matters of Faith and Morals…

CCC - " 2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent. "

 

[samovila]

I struggled with this teaching myself until a couple of years ago. I had an awakening of sorts and it dawned on me that God Himself gave each person the whole length of their natural life to repent and convert. Who are we to cut short what God has given? Now whenever I hear news stories about violence, I pray for the victims, their family, AND the perpetrator that they will have a full conversion and repent for their sins. I pray particularly for those victims of the death penalty who, while not innocent, were not allowed the full opportunity to repent.

 

[Paul_DeMers]

I struggled with this teaching myself until a couple of years ago. I had an awakening of sorts and it dawned on me that God Himself gave each person the whole length of their natural life to repent and convert. Who are we to cut short what God has given? Now whenever I hear news stories about violence, I pray for the victims, their family, AND the perpetrator that they will have a full conversion and repent for their sins. I pray particularly for those victims of the death penalty who, while not innocent, were not allowed the full opportunity to repent.

This is more or less how I feel as well. We are all sinners, and praise be to God that he is merciful and forgiving. Of course we might feel that some of these sinners do not deserve to live, but everyone deserves to know God’s love.

 

[Jonathan_V]

^Same here. Honestly, who are we to decide whether or not someone deserves to die?

One thing that shocked about the death penalty was that it costs more than keeping someone in life imprisonment. People on death row submit countless appeals to try to get out of the death penalty, and that takes up a lot of time in court.

Also, cutting someone’s life short denies them the opportunity to find God. I used to support it vigorously, but now I don’t. The only time that it is acceptable is when there is no other alternative, and the only way to keep society safe is to end the criminal’s life.

 

[music2]

We don’t have the death penalty here anymore(Australia).
One reason i can give you against it is “wrongfully accused”.
IE:sometimes people found guilty of crimes really are innocent.

So imagine,for example,a woman is raped and killed,her body is dumped.
You are in a lineup and witness identify your face as the killer.
You are arrested.You are tried,go to court and you have a lousy lawyer (your poor for example so you cant afford a good lawyer) who doesn’t do a good job of defending you,and you get found guilty and sentenced to the death penalty.
Your name is all over the internet.People are writing all sorts of anger filled comments about you.
Your innocent however,and you’ve never met the deceased woman and wern’t there and didn’t do this crime.
Your given the lethal injection and then just as your dying,the real killer(who bears a resemblance to you)
turns up at a police station and gives a confession that he did it.
Or new evidence finds the killers DNA match to something left at the crimescene…
after your dead.
It wouln’t be fair on you or your family.

 

[ANNE_2]

The “Death Penalty” should never be used as revenge.
It should only be used to protect the lives of others, lives out in society and lives within the prison system.

In the USA (unless waived by the criminal), the appeal process takes many years to complete. This gives the guilty party time to contemplate and repent.
All criminals have the right to meet with a Priest, Minister or Rabbi as desired.

Always pray for the victim, the victim’s family, so they can forgive. And pray for the Soul of the guilty party so he will repent.
And pray for Juries and Judges who’s job it is to protect Societies innocent. (Without this process there would be mayhem.)

With the use of DNA since the mid 1980’s, and fingerprinting, relying only on an eye-witness is not used in Death Penalty cases. In the USA defense attornies will always insist on accurate and non-contaminated evidence. Also in the USA, someone is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Isa_is_Allah]

Instead of the death penalty, rehabilitation should be used.

 

[dudleysharp]

God Himself gave each person the whole length of their natural life to repent and convert. Who are we to cut short what God has given?.

It is obvious than millions die early deaths and do not have " the whole length of their natural life to repent and convert." Of course, this doesn’t preclude their redemption.

The Catechism makes the same error.

2267: “without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself”.

The Catechism finds that we should end the death penalty in order to provide alternate sanctions “without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself” (2267)

First, the Catechism states, above, that the wrongdoer redeems himself. The biblical/theological realities find that all wrongdoers can/should seek redemption, but that God provides redemption to the wrongdoer by His grace. Wrongdoers can only seek redemption, they cannot provide it to themselves. Again, a very poorly written section.

Secondly, the Church is, hereby, stating that the death penalty is “taking away from him (the executed party) the possibility of redeeming himself”. (2267)

The Catechism is stating that the God invoked sanction of death takes away the possibility of redemption. Think about that. There is nothing to defend such a claim, in any context.

All of our sins have us die “early”. Is there a case, whereby God has erased the possibility of our redemption, solely because of our earthly and “early” deaths? Such an interpretation is, in context, flatly, against God’s message and cannot stand.

The biblical record, its interpretations, the Magesterium and virtually all knowledgeable Christian scholars and laymen, Catholic or not, find that the universal blessing that God gives us is that we all have the opportunity of being redeemed “before we die”. The death penalty does not/cannot take that away anymore than does death by car wreck, cancer, old age or any other “earthly” and “early” death, meaning all deaths, because of our sins. We all die “early” because of our sins.

It is as if the Church had, completely, forgotten the meaning of St. Dismas’ death, his words exchanged with Jesus and the promise to come. (7)

The Catechism, wrongly, finds that all “early” deaths, meaning all earthly deaths, negate the possibility of our being redeemed. Such is an astonishing claim, if not much worse.

In God’s perfection, we suffer an “early” death, because of our sins. The Catechism wrongly tells us that our “early” deaths takes away the possibility of our being redeemed. It can’t and does not. God gives all of us the opportunity of redemption, in His grace, before our earthly and early deaths, no matter what that death may be.

This newest Catechism cannot rewrite that, even though it is trying to.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Thanks for all the replies! This is something I pray about quite a bit just because I really do believe that I need to change how I feel about it. To say that I was a supporter of it in the past is a vast understatement. Even now, when I hear stories about murderers or people who harm children, I can logically tell myself that I should feel one way about how they’re treated, but I sometimes can’t help from feeling that they deserve capital punishment. I think it will be a long road before I’m comfortable with where I am, but the fact that I’ve made some progress is encouraging.

 

[ANNE_2]

It is obvious than millions die early deaths and do not have " the whole length of their natural life to repent and convert." Of course, this doesn’t preclude their redemption.
The Catechism makes the same error.
2267: “without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself”.
The Catechism finds that we should end the death penalty in order to provide alternate sanctions “without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself” (2267)
First, the Catechism states, above, that the wrongdoer redeems himself. The biblical/theological realities find that all wrongdoers can/should seek redemption, but that God provides redemption to the wrongdoer by His grace. Wrongdoers can only seek redemption, they cannot provide it to themselves. Again, a very poorly written section.
Secondly, the Church is, hereby, stating that the death penalty is “taking away from him (the executed party) the possibility of redeeming himself”. (2267)
The Catechism is stating that the God invoked sanction of death takes away the possibility of redemption. Think about that. There is nothing to defend such a claim, in any context.
All of our sins have us die “early”. Is there a case, whereby God has erased the possibility of our redemption, solely because of our earthly and “early” deaths? Such an interpretation is, in context, flatly, against God’s message and cannot stand.
The biblical record, its interpretations, the Magesterium and virtually all knowledgeable Christian scholars and laymen, Catholic or not, find that the universal blessing that God gives us is that we all have the opportunity of being redeemed “before we die”. The death penalty does not/cannot take that away anymore than does death by car wreck, cancer, old age or any other “earthly” and “early” death, meaning all deaths, because of our sins. We all die “early” because of our sins.
It is as if the Church had, completely, forgotten the meaning of St. Dismas’ death, his words exchanged with Jesus and the promise to come. (7)
The Catechism, wrongly, finds that all “early” deaths, meaning all earthly deaths, negate the possibility of our being redeemed. Such is an astonishing claim, if not much worse.
In God’s perfection, we suffer an “early” death, because of our sins. The Catechism wrongly tells us that our “early” deaths takes away the possibility of our being redeemed. It can’t and does not. God gives all of us the opportunity of redemption, in His grace, before our earthly and early deaths, no matter what that death may be.
This newest Catechism cannot rewrite that, even though it is trying to.

There are no errors in the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”.
It is heretical and/or schismatic to state that there are.

" The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I have approved…and the publication of which I order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of Catholic Doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium.
I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the Faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. " - - - Pope John Paul II (pg 5, CCC)

Taking things out of context, human error, mis-understandings, and accidental or purposeful mis-interpretations by individuals are the reason that each Catholic home, and every non-Catholic who wishes to know the truth of what the Church teaches regarding Faith and Morals should have a copy of the CCC to read and for reference.

There is an entire section called: “Legitimate defense” starting on page 545, # 2263 through # 2267.

The first CCC was written over 400 years ago.
Societies, Technology, and Laws all change - and vary from Country to Country.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition" was first published in the USA in March 2000.
" It is meant to … take into account various situations and cultures, while carefully preserving the unity of faith and fidelity to catholic doctrine." - Pope John Paul II (pg 6, CCC).

Here is link for copyright approved - quick reference: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm