Help with the Liturgy of the Hours:D

[oak2520]

I think just going by Sunday Week I morning prayer where it tells you not to pray the Glory Be, we can interpret that it is usually suppose to be said.

Thanks a million. The question came up because of that Sunday prayer, indeed. I usually pray the Glory Be for every section until I ran into that Sunday prayer.

 

[Revs96]

The Glory Be is said at the end of every Psalm and every canticle (including Gospel Canticles), according to the rubric in Sunday Week I, except the long version of Daniel 3, the only place where the rubrics state the the Glory Be is not said.

 

[puzzleannie]

LOL I’m not a priest… So I guess I’m not obligated to pray it. Although I really like to and want to.

Oh… So I can just say the morning prayer according to the memorial, or say the prayers for week II and then skip over to the seasons for the readings and prayers. Oh ok thanks!

I was totally clueless before, thanks for all the advice everyone. Especially the divine office website.

my advice is to stick with the 4 week psalter for morning and evening prayer, without worrying about feasts, memorials and seasons for the first year. Don’t even think of investing in the $150+ 4-volume set until LOTH has been a firmly entrenched habit for at least a year. It honestly takes that long to get used to the rhythm of the psalter, and to figure out what to do on Sundays and Solemnities, which are enough confusion for one person for one year. You don’t even have to pray the invitatory if you don’t want, but if you want to put a marker on that page, and for the canticles, do it.

If your book did not come with it, download or just print out the invitatory psalm 95, the antiphons for the days of the week. Also the Te Deum if you want to pray it on Sundays and solemnities (I just love it so I pray it even when I don’t pray the office of readings). paste this on cards the size of your pages and use them as page markers,

at a Christian bookstore you can usually find tabbies with several ribbons attached, which you stick into the spine of your book to give you more page markers. Get this when you are ready to tack the feasts, memorials, office of readings, seasonal prayers etc. The Dodos book is excellent.

You will soon find yourself longing for the office of readings. I recommend for the first year just putting a page marker at the first one, and reading one a day for the year in order. You can also use the chart for the bible selections, and just read one a day, use a post-it marker to track them. don’t start until you are ready and already comfortable with the psalter. You will grow to love having this one volume easy to transport, good for travel. CP has the Benedictus and Magnificat printed each day, but if you have another version that doesn’t print them out and or paste them on the fly leaves and inside the covers.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I think just going by Sunday Week I morning prayer where it tells you not to pray the Glory Be, we can interpret that it is usually suppose to be said.

Yes, this canticle (also prayed on Sunday III) is precisely the exception foreseen in the rubrics.

tee

 

[tee_eff_em]

[Much good advice elided – tee]

CP has the Benedictus and Magnificat printed each day

, but if you have another version that doesn’t print them out and or paste them on the fly leaves and inside the covers.

NB this is true of the Daughters of St Paul edition of Christian Prayer, but the popular Catholic Book Publishing edition does not print them in-line.

tee

 

[Revs96]

my advice is to stick with the 4 week psalter for morning and evening prayer, without worrying about feasts, memorials and seasons for the first year. Don’t even think of investing in the $150+ 4-volume set until LOTH has been a firmly entrenched habit for at least a year. It honestly takes that long to get used to the rhythm of the psalter, and to figure out what to do on Sundays and Solemnities, which are enough confusion for one person for one year. You don’t even have to pray the invitatory if you don’t want, but if you want to put a marker on that page, and for the canticles, do it.

You really shouldn’t be praying the Liturgy of the Hours at all if your not going to follow the rubrics. All solemnities, feasts, and memorials must be done except the optional memorials, which are obviously optional. Each day will have an entry in the Proper of Seasons and might have an entry in the Proper of saints. Whichever is higher ranking is the one you do. You cannot distort the Church’s calendar on your own authority. If any person is going to pray the Office, even someone not obligated to pray it in the first place, then he/she must follow the rubrics & general instruction, which includes following the correct calendar.

In regards to getting a copy of the full Office, well it is only sensible to get the texts for the hours that you will actually say. So if for example, someone not obligated to pray any part of the office decides to pray only Morning & Evening Prayer only needs the one volume version (Christian Prayer), which has Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer, & Night Prayer. The Pauline Press edition of Christian Prayer also includes Daytime Prayer and the full thing includes the Office of Readings. You only need the texts for the Hours you will actually say. Some people can’t say certain Hours because of work/school, but if they are not obligated to say any of the Hours, they can simply say only the ones they have time for, but they must say those Hours according to the rubrics.

PS: I can tell you from experience that it is easier to learn the LOTH if you start with only 1 or 2 Hours a day then add more Hours as you get the hang of it than to try and figure out the whole thing. If you only do Evening Prayer, or Evening & Morning Prayer, then you have much less material to learn & worry about.

If you need help, ask someone who prays it, such as any priest or deacon.

 

[puzzleannie]

You really shouldn’t be praying the Liturgy of the Hours at all if your not going to follow the rubrics. All .

as lay people we can pray all or part of the LOTH, yes it is legit, to pray part of it while learning, unless you are part of an institute where it is required. In that case, you will be with people who can instruct you. To tell someone they may not pray any part of the LOTH unless they intend to pray the whole thing everyday with each and every reading etc., is just wrong, and placing an unfair burden. For instance if you are using Shorter Christian Prayer, all the weekdays of Lent, Easter etc. won’t even be shown. Are you saying it is wrong to use it?

The advice to get a priest or deacon to guide you is good if you can find one with time to do it. If you have a parish where the priest or deacon invite people to pray together in public, that is awesome, and a great way to learn.

 

[Revs96]

as lay people we can pray all or part of the LOTH, yes it is legit, to pray part of it while learning, unless you are part of an institute where it is required. In that case, you will be with people who can instruct you. To tell someone they may not pray any part of the LOTH unless they intend to pray the whole thing everyday with each and every reading etc., is just wrong, and placing an unfair burden.

I specifically said that many people rightly pray only a part of the LOTH for one legit reason or another. Whichever Hours they say however, must be said obediently to Church law, which in this case is found in the way of the rubrics and general instruction. Essentially we must all “Say the black, do the red”. Even though we are not all praying the Divine Office in full, we must all pray the parts of the Divine Office we do pray in a manner that is obedient to the Church’s laws. If your going to be disobedient to the Church and fabricate your own rubrics, then your better off not doing it at all. I never said that “they may not pray any part of the LOTH unless they intend to pray the whole thing everyday with each and every reading” or even came remotely close to saying that. I actually said the exact opposite of that and went on at length supporting the opposite.

 

[puzzleannie]

I specifically said that many people rightly pray only a part of the LOTH for one legit reason or another. Whichever Hours they say however, must be said obediently to Church law, which in this case is found in the way of the rubrics and general instruction. Essentially we must all “Say the black, do the red”. Even though we are not all praying.

I repeat my question, if someone uses CP which does not include some of the seasonal and festal days and readings, or SCP, which only for instance includes a sampling for one week each of Lent, Advent and Easter, and misses even some of the solemnities, are they now allowed to pray using that resource?

You are placing an unfair burden, and one that is not binding on anyone not obliged by their state in life to pray the office.

 

[Revs96]

I repeat my question, if someone uses CP which does not include some of the seasonal and festal days and readings, or SCP, which only for instance includes a sampling for one week each of Lent, Advent and Easter, and misses even some of the solemnities, are they now allowed to pray using that resource?

You are placing an unfair burden, and one that is not binding on anyone not obliged by their state in life to pray the office.

Are you calling obedience to the Church an “unfair burden”? If obedience is “unfair” then why would anyone obey you or anyone else? CP does include all the seasonal & festal days, just not for all the hours, as I explained twice before. SCP is so watered down and incomplete that you don’t even get a single Hour other than Night Prayer in its entirety. SCP isn’t worth its salt aside from being a slimmer book for most (not all) days. Whoever uses it is depriving themselves by refusing to say the full Hour. On top of that, the full text is available on several web sites, so given modern communications technology, it is actually easier to go on-line and get the full texts for any or all Hours (depending on one’s ability to devote time to prayer) already assembled for you from the Psalter and various propers, for free no less. It’s not even hard to be obedient, just follow directions and stop making up your own rules as you go along. I’m not putting any burden on anyone, say whichever Hours you want, but you must say the texts that the Church has proscribed for that day, you can’t make it up on your own authority like a schismatic.
You’re seeing a burden where there is none, you don’t even know what texts are in the book, and you chop up the texts however you see fit in blatant disregard of Church law.

…and people wonder why Traditionalists are so angry. Many people these days can’t even follow simple red and black directions and make a mockery of the Church’s Liturgy. The LOTH is not a private devotion (which are highly customizable), it is a part of the Church’s public prayer life (the other part is the Mass), so it has specific rules. People “ad libbing” their own rules is what has cast the Church into chaos. They think that they know better than the Church and think they are more right than the Church.

 

[curlycool89]

SCP is so watered down and incomplete that you don’t even get a single Hour other than Night Prayer in its entirety. SCP isn’t worth its salt aside from being a slimmer book for most (not all) days. Whoever uses it is depriving themselves by refusing to say the full Hour.

Then I guess we’re calling EWTN heretical and schematic for including it in their description of the LOTH.

I went on a retreat lead by religious priests during Lent where one of the topics was the LOTH. So we prayed the morning prayer from SCP, just as it was written in the Psalter. They’re some of the most faithful priests I’ve seen (no playing with the rubrics during Mass with them), and you’re going to tell me that because they introduced the LOTH using SCP they’re now “disobedient”?

 

[Revs96]

Then I guess we’re calling EWTN heretical and schematic for including it in their description of the LOTH.

I went on a retreat lead by religious priests during Lent where one of the topics was the LOTH. So we prayed the morning prayer from SCP, just as it was written in the Psalter. They’re some of the most faithful priests I’ve seen (no playing with the rubrics during Mass with them), and you’re going to tell me that because they introduced the LOTH using SCP they’re now “disobedient”?

That’s not what I’m telling you. SCP has the texts, just not for all days. You’re all just reading what you want to read in my comments and twisting what I say for your own purposes.

 

[curlycool89]

That’s not what I’m telling you. SCP has the texts, just not for all days. You’re all just reading what you want to read in my comments and twisting what I say for your own purposes.

Ok, a recap then.

First you said that not following to the T the exact daily rubrics for any Hour you pray is wrong.
Then you said that SCP does not follow this and therefore is bad (You said “Whoever uses it is depriving themselves by refusing to say the full Hour.”).

Now you’re backing up and accusing us of twisting your words because …

 

[OraLabora]

FWIW I think that, as the prayer of the entire Church, it’s best to follow the rubrics and pray the hours according to them, taking into consideration the calendar.

One can use one of the prescribed forms. In my attachment to a monastic community I have used in the past one of the approved Benedictine schemas (psalms on a 1-week cycle), but time being a constant problem for me I have settled on the 4-week LOH. As an oblate I am required to pray at least part of the office as my situation permits. For me, the LOH allows me to pray all offices on most days. Actually to chant them on most days in Gregorian chant.

I endeavour to pray it properly. Not to say I don’t make mistakes… I’ve seen Benedictine monks make mistakes too

The LOH does have many legitimate variations though, for example choice of 1-year or 2-year lectionary for the Office of Readings.

 

[Revs96]

FWIW I think that, as the prayer of the entire Church, it’s best to follow the rubrics and pray the hours according to them, taking into consideration the calendar.

One can use one of the prescribed forms. In my attachment to a monastic community I have used in the past one of the approved Benedictine schemas (psalms on a 1-week cycle), but time being a constant problem for me I have settled on the 4-week LOH. As an oblate I am required to pray at least part of the office as my situation permits. For me, the LOH allows me to pray all offices on most days. Actually to chant them on most days in Gregorian chant.

I endeavour to pray it properly. Not to say I don’t make mistakes… I’ve seen Benedictine monks make mistakes too

The LOH does have many legitimate variations though, for example choice of 1-year or 2-year lectionary for the Office of Readings.

Thank you. This is more or less what I have been trying to say this whole time. Either people can’t stand being told what to do (in this case by the Church) or they just needed my idea explained in a different way.

PS: There are various licit (i.e. legal) forms and those not bound to the Hours can use any of them, but what is wrong is making up your own form when you have no authority to do so.

 

[puzzleannie]

Are you calling obedience to the Church an “unfair burden”? If obedience is “unfair” then why would anyone obey you or anyone else? CP does include all the seasonal & festal days, just not for all the hours, as I explained twice before. SCP is so watered down and incomplete that you don’t even get a single Hour other than Night Prayer in its entirety. SCP isn’t worth its salt aside from being a slimmer book for most (not all) days. .

thank you, I was not aware you had the authority to make these pronouncements. I will burn the SCP our parish has been using for years to successfully promote LOTH and tell the pastor I am doing it on your say so.

to all who came here sincerely asking for guidance on how to pray LOTH you better also burn your books unless they are approved and don’t even attempt one word of this prayer unless you are under the direct guidance of a priest or deacon. that is the message I am getting and who am I to contradict

nobody is suggesting anybody make up there own LOTH, but they are not getting in trouble or going to hell for praying the psalter as written, or praying the readings for another day. If it is in the book, they can pray it.

 

[Revs96]

thank you, I was not aware you had the authority to make these pronouncements. I will burn the SCP our parish has been using for years to successfully promote LOTH and tell the pastor I am doing it on your say so.

to all who came here sincerely asking for guidance on how to pray LOTH you better also burn your books unless they are approved and don’t even attempt one word of this prayer unless you are under the direct guidance of a priest or deacon. that is the message I am getting and who am I to contradict

nobody is suggesting anybody make up there own LOTH, but they are not getting in trouble or going to hell for praying the psalter as written, or praying the readings for another day. If it is in the book, they can pray it.

How mature…

 

[curlycool89]

nobody is suggesting anybody make up there own LOTH, but they are not getting in trouble or going to hell for praying the psalter as written, or praying the readings for another day. If it is in the book, they can pray it.

I can even provide a citation for that. GILOTH #252 says:

1. Everyone should be concerned to respect the complete cycle of the four-week psalter. [7] Still, for spiritual or pastoral advantage, the psalms appointed for a particular day may be replaced with others from the same hour of a different day. There are also circumstances occasionally arising when it is permissible to choose suitable psalms and other texts in the way done for a votive office.

There you go. It’s permissible to use the Psalms from another day as long as they’re from the same hour. So using the Psalter instead of the Proper (Morning for Morning, Evening for Evening) would fall under that.

Either people can’t stand being told what to do (in this case by the Church) or they just needed my idea explained in a different way.

Nobody is questioning Rome here. We’re talking about people just starting out who are under no obligation to do so. It’s not exactly encouragement to tell them they’re committing a sin or something just because they’re inexperienced and just trying to learn. Sheash.

By the way, I noticed Revs96 that you ignored my last post. I guess it is easier to just ignore what you don’t want to hear.

 

[oak2520]

…Don’t even think of investing in the $150+ 4-volume set until LOTH has been a firmly entrenched habit for at least a year.

I search on “dealoz.com” for cheap books. I found that Barnes and Noble offer the set at 107.28+tax for member price. It offers free shipping.

I just got to the website and type the ISBN and it will compare prices from all available websites, such as Amanzon, Ebay, Half.com, Walmart, eCampus, etc.