Help with the Tridentine Mass

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FightingFat

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Hi everyone! đź‘‹

I’m really excited that a neighbouring Parish to mine has announced it is going to have the extraordinary form of the Roman rite on the first Sunday of every month. I am looking forward to my first experience of a Tridentine mass as a 36 year old Catholic! Can anyone here give me a run down on the differences between the extrordinary rite and novis ordu?

I found a pod cast on itunes about Tridentine Spirituality, a lecture given by Msgr. Michael Schmitz which I really enjoyed and explained a lot about the spirituality of the Tridentine rite and extolled the virtues and benefits beautifully!

I understand that the priest celebrates the mass with his back to the congregation, in union with the congregation and the mass is in Latin, the language of the Church, but how much do the congregation join in? Are there responses like novis ordu? Should I follow the mass or pray the rosary? Would reading the Holy Father’s motu proprio Summorum Pontificum help me to celebrate the mass?

I also have a friend I have recently introduced to the Church and who was Baptised at Easter (praise be to God). He is very interested in attending the Tridentine rite and I feel I should have something to say in terms of explanation and answers to any questons he may ask.

On another issue, I am really inspired by this event. I am very involved in my Parish community but my priest has no Latin. As a young Catholic I have very poor liturgical formation I think. Coming to Catholic Answers has inspired me greatly, reading about how deeply other Catholics think about the mass and the extraordinary events that take place during it-- we actually meet God!!!

Someone said to me recently that the more reverence is returned to the mass, much of the Church’s problems with recruitment could be changed and certainly everyone seems to wander on and off the altar at various times during the mass without much care for what is taking place. I didn’t think the Pope’s moto proprio would affect me or my Parish at all, but I have heard of several priests who are saying the Tridentine mass in my area and I think this is quite exciting!

Looking forward to hearing your responses!

God bless

Mark.
 
FightingFat said:
Hi everyone! đź‘‹

I’m really excited that a neighbouring Parish to mine has announced it is going to have the extraordinary form of the Roman rite on the first Sunday of every month. I am looking forward to my first experience of a Tridentine mass as a 36 year old Catholic! Can anyone here give me a run down on the differences between the extrordinary rite and novis ordu?

I found a pod cast on itunes about Tridentine Spirituality, a lecture given by Msgr. Michael Schmitz which I really enjoyed and explained a lot about the spirituality of the Tridentine rite and extolled the virtues and benefits beautifully!

I understand that the priest celebrates the mass with his back to the congregation, in union with the congregation and the mass is in Latin, the language of the Church, but how much do the congregation join in? Are there responses like novis ordu? Should I follow the mass or pray the rosary? Would reading the Holy Father’s motu proprio Summorum Pontificum help me to celebrate the mass?

I also have a friend I have recently introduced to the Church and who was Baptised at Easter (praise be to God). He is very interested in attending the Tridentine rite and I feel I should have something to say in terms of explanation and answers to any questons he may ask.

On another issue, I am really inspired by this event. I am very involved in my Parish community but my priest has no Latin. As a young Catholic I have very poor liturgical formation I think. Coming to Catholic Answers has inspired me greatly, reading about how deeply other Catholics think about the mass and the extraordinary events that take place during it-- we actually meet God!!!

Someone said to me recently that the more reverence is returned to the mass, much of the Church’s problems with recruitment could be changed and certainly everyone seems to wander on and off the altar at various times during the mass without much care for what is taking place. I didn’t think the Pope’s moto proprio would affect me or my Parish at all, but I have heard of several priests who are saying the Tridentine mass in my area and I think this is quite exciting!

Looking forward to hearing your responses!

God bless

Mark.
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Greetings and best wishes to you.

I would suggest you get a good missal and study a bit the Ordinary of the Mass, particularly those parts that diverge the most from the novus ordo like the offertory and Canon. A wonderful way to assist at Mass is to follow the Mass and offer it spiritually with the priest for vocations and conversions, also that the order and beauty of the Mass return to our churches.

Don’t worry if it seems a bit complicated; this Rite is the fruit of about 1400 years development.
 
I think that when you first start going to the TLM that it’s a good idea not to worry too much about what you are supposed to respond or to join in singing. If you’re unfamiliar with the Latin and the chant and responses, it’s better to watch, listen, and pray. The advice to study the missal is excellent. Praying the prayers from the missal is great but it is also ok to offer your own prayers. Some people pray the rosary, and that is ok too. At Mass it’s very possible that everyone will be silent. In some places there is a lot of singing and responding from the congregation. In some ways both can be intimidating. The silence is a little unnerving when coming from the Novus Ordo. The singing and responding can make you feel like you’re not doing what you’re supposed to do. The best thing to do is pray the Mass, to offer your intentions and your very self in union with the Holy Sacrifice to our Father in heaven. Generally, the best way to do that is through praying the proper and ordinary prayers of the Mass and singing and responding, but people differ in their ability to do these things. It can take time to learn.

A great resource about the Mass is Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Mediator Dei.
 
Hi, FF, welcome 🙂

There is some good info here…

sanctamissa.org/en/

It’s mainly a resource for priests and servers, but it’s a good intro the the 1962 Mass.
 
Here are some links that may help you:

acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2007/08/tridentine-latin-mass.html
I understand that the priest celebrates the mass with his back to the congregation, in union with the congregation
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Yes, the priest faces ad orietem (toward the East), which is the direction of the sunrise and the direction towards which the Church looks, symbolically awaiting the return of our Lord.
and the mass is in Latin, the language of the Church, but how much do the congregation join in?
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Will it be a high Mass (more music, chant, 6 candles lit)? At a High Mass there will be less participation than at a Low Mass. You should see if there are any guides/missals when you attend. These missals/guides would be available for us during Mass and are very helpful.

BIG ADVICE: Don’t worry about following along perfectly and saying all of the responses. Pray the Mass! The Mass is the Sacrifice of the Cross and all of the symbolic gestures of the priest symbolize this. So, don’t worry about saying everything that you will need to say, pray the Mass.

Some responses which you will most likely say:

“Et cum spiritu tuo”
“Sed libera nos a malo” (At the Mass, you only say the end of the Our Father. The priest says the rest)
“Domine, non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbum, et sanabitur anima mea” (3 fold; “Lord I am not worry to receive you…”
Are there responses like novis ordu? Should I follow the mass or pray the rosary?
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Try to follow the Mass and pray and meditate.
Would reading the Holy Father’s motu proprio Summorum Pontificum help me to celebrate the mass?
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Not particularly but it does have helpful information.

summorumpontificum.net/2007/07/summorum-pontificum-english.html

God bless you!
 
Seminarian_Matt said:
Will it be a high Mass (more music, chant, 6 candles lit)? At a High Mass there will be less participation than at a Low Mass. You should see if there are any guides/missals when you attend. These missals/guides would be available for us during Mass and are very helpful.
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It’s a low mass- this is the parish ourladyoflourdeschurch.co.uk/

Where can I get the missal from?
 
You can get a missal from Baronius Press - www.baroniuspress.com. They have the '62 missal. It’s a bit pricey - $55, I think. Most Catholic religious goods sellers have missals. You might want to look around on the Internet for a used one. You probably won’t find a used '62 missal, but one from before '62 will serve well, too. There aren’t much changes outside of Holy Week.

The missal is an investment, but a very worthwhile one.
 
I wonder why the novus ordo church usually only “allows” low Masses? They’re not as impressive, aesthetically, as a sung High Mass.

I attended several sung High Masses back in the late 1970s, under the auspices of “unapproved” groups such as the ORCM and the SSPX. They were very glorious occasions, and I have to say as a non-Catholic, that I felt transported in spirit by those Masses, from the sheer beauty of them alone!

Take my advice and go to a HIGH Mass rather than a low Mass. You’ll see the difference!
 
HashemEchad said:
I wonder why the novus ordo church usually only “allows” low Masses? They’re not as impressive, aesthetically, as a sung High Mass.

I attended several sung High Masses back in the late 1970s, under the auspices of “unapproved” groups such as the ORCM and the SSPX. They were very glorious occasions, and I have to say as a non-Catholic, that I felt transported in spirit by those Masses, from the sheer beauty of them alone!

Take my advice and go to a HIGH Mass rather than a low Mass. You’ll see the difference!
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What’s the difference between “low” and “high” mass??? :confused:
 
FightingFat said:
What’s the difference between “low” and “high” mass??? :confused:
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A low Mass is simply read.

A high Mass has music, incense, much more pageantry. A sight to behold!

Click on this to watch one from the 1940s:

youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64

There are many others on YouTube, but this is one of my personal faves. Plus, it has a commentary so you can learn as you go!
 
The reason the low mass is said is because so many priests don’t know the Latin well enough to say a high mass, and even if the priest does, the cantors certainly do not, so there will have to be allot of training over the next few years before a high mass can be said in allot of places.

I cannot find it right now, but there is a little red missal that all you TLM people will know. It is about a foot tall, 6" in length, and half an inch thick. It is just the basic missal without the readings and most TLM children use this before they get their very own missal. This would be good to order at first because it is easy to use.

If someone could find it, I am sure you know what I am talking about, they used to have them in the back of all TLM parishes. But I haven’t been to a FSSP church in so long, I can’t remember the name.
 
Margarite said:
**The reason the low mass is said is because so many priests don’t know the Latin well enough to say a high mass, and even if the priest does, the cantors certainly do not, so there will have to be allot of training over the next few years before a high mass can be said in allot of places.
**
I]

I cannot believe that you would make a statement like this. This is not only 100% wrong it is quite insulting to those of us old enough to remember when the Traditional Mass was the only Mass around.

A High Mass was sung, I know that doesn’t happen much anymore except in a few places but they used to be done in that fashion with some regularity although not on every day by any stretch of the imagination.

A Low Mass was spoken. Wow, that sounds a lot like the Pauline Rite đź‘Ť . In fact, almost every Pauline Mass that I have been to with few exceptions remind me of a Low Mass.

The reason they were done at all had nothing to do with the lack of knowledge of Latin on the part of the Priest. A High Mass requires a priest, deacon and normally a choir. Low Mass is the same Mass, with some variations depending on the season and feast days and it is said by one priest. Usually at Low Mass a server or an acolyte assists the Priest instead of a Deacon and Sub Deacon.

Sunday Masses, Holy Day of Obligation and certain Feast Days were usually although not always and specifically, High Masses, Daily Masses of lower rank were normally Low Masses.

From what I have seen in indult Masses nationwide there are many more High Masses celebrated than low Masses, except in certain traditional Chapels such as those of the SSPX and areas that have daily Traditional Masses such as San Diego. In those areas you will have low Masses during the week normally.

Basic bare bones definition and I’m sure those with much more liturgical knowledge than I will step up to the plate on thi one.
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I know the reasoning for when there were only TLMs, but I was giving what I thought was the practical reasoning for today. What I said is totally valid TODAY.
There are hardly any priests today who can say a TLM. Many don’t even know the Latin, so they start out with the low mass and then learn the harder high mass later. Another problem with the high mass for these beginners is that there are very few cantors or choirs who can sing Latin and when someone doesn’t know Latin, believe me it is horrible to hear when they try.

We have had two parishes in Las Vegas that have tried the TLM, one parish, the priest knew the Latin, but the cantor did not and boy did it make mass painful. The priest was transferred to DC, so that ended. Now there is another where the priest is slowly teaching the congregation the chant (and when I say slow I mean slow, we have been at it two year and still haven’t learned the creed) While I remember allot of the Latin from when I attended the TLM every Sunday when I was little, many people at the parish are new to it, so this is a good approach.

I am sorry if you misunderstood me. It was probably my fault. Please forgive me.
Have a wonder full day!
 
FightingFat,

I applaud you on your interest with the Usus Antiquior.

As many before me have said, most certainly get a good missal.

If you want to delve into the subject I would recommend Msgr. Moorman’s book “The Latin Mass Explained”.

To really delve into the subject or if you want to become a MC or sacristan, then you should try Dom Alcuin Reid’s “The Ceremonies of the Roman Rites Described”

Finally, the seminal work of the Usus Antiquior, is Rev. Weller’s “The Roman Rituals”. It three volumes and over 1600 pages long.

Here are my comments on some of the things said here.

First, what is low mass?

Low mass is the most frequent form of the mass said by a priest, since it is the form used by for his private/daily mass.

No server is require but at least one is preferred two acolytes are even better.

Portions may be sung or rather chanted. Responses may also sung/chanted.

Music is allowed. But no schola (Choir)

Low Mass presupposes that there are no faithful present.

To my mind, nothing was a beautiful as seeing the main altar and all the side altars filled with priests saying their daily mass.

High Mass is should more accurately be called Solemn Mass.

It is Mass with sacred ministers, Deacon and Subdeacon. The schola (choir) with sing the chants.

The Subdeacon will sing the Epistle and the Deacon will sing the Gospel.

There will also be a MC, a thurifer, 4 acolytes and 2 candle bearers.

What most think of as High Mass, is actually Missa Cantata (Sung Mass).

Missa Cantata is Solemn Mass without a deacon and subdeacon, with elements of Low Mass.

And there’s a different set of rules for Masses with a Bishop or a Prelate.

Confusing?

Not really.

The reason for having Low Mass or Missa Cantata or Solemn Mass has nothing to do with Priest’s ability to speak Latin.

It has more to do with liturgical forms and logistics.

If there are no Deacons and Subdeacons, you can not have Solemn Mass.

No schola, then no Solemn Mass or Missa Cantata.

The ability to speak Latin is certainly an advantage, but not a necessity.

The Priest has a Missal and altar cards which he is required to use.

I know many Priests who speak Latin and know the consecration by heart, but they will always read from the altar card because they don’t want to risk doing it wrong.

There is absolutely no difference in what is said in the Low Mass, Missa Cantata, or Solemn Mass.

The Mass of the Catechumens is the same.

The Mass of the Faithful is the same.

The Conclusion of the Mass is the same.

The only difference is that in the Missa Cantata the Priest must chant the Epistle and Gospel.

I beg to differ on the characterization that the Low Mass resembles the Pauline Rites.

If done properly the Low Mass is said in low tones, meaning the Priest speaks only loud enough for the server to hear him.

Portions are also in secret or not spoken at all.

So most people encountering the Low Mass the first time will wonder why the Priest isn’t saying anything.
 
A properly done, Traditional Latin High Mass is absolutely one of the most beautiful and moving things on this earth. I think every person, Catholic or not, should experience it at least one in a lifetime (naturally if you’re Catholic, you should experience it a lot more!)

The only ones I’ve ever attended were back ion the 1970s, under the auspices of the ORCM and later, the SSPX. Those groups made the TLM the symbol of their movement, so I guess that’s why they did them so well.

I’ve also been to a few low Masses, both by them and an indult in a parish I lived near at the time. I definitely prefer the High Mass for aesthetics alone.

I understand there is now a TLM group called the Fraternity of St Peter which IS under the auspieces of the “regular” church, so maybe they are an option for Catholics who would not want to attend one by the SSPX?
 
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