HELP!!!!!!!!

[bpcatholic]

I was talking to a ‘friend’ today that I haven’t seen for a good year. When I told him I was Catholic (Tiber Swim Team '08!), he wanted to know why. Naturally, I told him because the Catholic Church has been around since the time Jesus established the Curch, and protestants have only been around 500 years. He then said that it’s true that the Catholic Church has been around since the time of Christ, however the Roman Catholic Church came years later. I responded to him that the term “Roman Catholic Church” was used until after the Reformation (or around that time) and he said that the Catholic Church and Roman Catholic Church are two different things. Pretty much all Christians belong to the Catholic Church, including Roman Catholics. I don’t know what to say! He’s beliefs/views are really odd. Another issue was sola fide. He said that because we have faith, we do works so we can show others our faith. Is this really the doctrine of sola fide? Sorry if I’m just rambling! Thanks!

 

[Mannyfit75]

I was talking to a ‘friend’ today that I haven’t seen for a good year. When I told him I was Catholic (Tiber Swim Team '08!), he wanted to know why. Naturally, I told him because the Catholic Church has been around since the time Jesus established the Curch, and protestants have only been around 500 years.

True. Protestants came in later. The first Christians were and is still Catholic.

He then said that it’s true that the Catholic Church has been around since the time of Christ, however the Roman Catholic Church came years later. I responded to him that the term “Roman Catholic Church” was used until after the Reformation (or around that time) and he said that the Catholic Church and Roman Catholic Church are two different things. Pretty much all Christians belong to the Catholic Church, including Roman Catholics.

Your friend is sadly mistaken. The Catholic Church is not called Roman Catholic Church officially. It is the Catholic Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states “Catholic Church” not Roman Catholic Church.

The word Roman Catholic Church does not truly describe our Catholic completely. There are 23 Rites of the Catholic Church. 22 Eastern or Oriental Rites, and the other is the Latin or Roman Rite.

I don’t know what to say! He’s beliefs/views are really odd. Another issue was sola fide. He said that because we have faith, we do works so we can show others our faith. Is this really the doctrine of sola fide? Sorry if I’m just rambling! Thanks!

Second, the Roman Catholic Church and the Catholic Church are the same thing. The first Pope is St. Peter then Linus, Acletus, Clement of Rome, down to the present time. If his claim that the “Roman Catholic Church came later” then how does it explain Popes or the Bishops following Peter.

Third, what proof does he have and where did he get his information? Does history prove that the two Churches are different when in fact they are the same.

You need to ask him where he get his information from and proof.

 

[bpcatholic]

You need to ask him where he get his information from and proof.

He goes to a non-denominational “church” and went to an unacredited college.

 

[Mannyfit75]

and I do mean, serious ask him serious questions. Use the 4 W’s.

1. Who says the two are different Churches?
2. What is your unbias source for claiming the Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church are different?
3. When did the Roman Catholic Church started, specific dates?
4. Where did this all develop?
5. How do you know the information he received is reliable?

Second, I am happy to help you to give you sources online and highly recommend reading William Jurden’s Early Fathers. It’s a Three Volume Set.

If the book is hard to read. There is a much more condense or easy to read Church history book.

The Fathers of the Church, Expanded Edition (Paperback)
by Mike Aquilina (Author)

The Mass of the Early Christians (Paperback)
by Mike Aquilina (Author) “How did the first Christians experience the Mass?..”

The Catholic Verses: 95 Bible Passages That Confound Protestants (Paperback)
by Dave Armstrong (Author)

and Pope Benedict XVI’s book “The Fathers.”

 

[Mannyfit75]

He goes to a non-denominational “church” and went to an unacredited college.

Well, I need specifics. What credibility does his information have? Like Books and authors? A person cannot go by someone’s word of mouth. I often ask people who makes claims of the Church to back it up with facts and if it is support by historians.

 

[bpcatholic]

Well, I need specifics. What credibility does his information have? Like Books and authors? A person cannot go by someone’s word of mouth. I often ask people who makes claims of the Church to back it up with facts and if it is support by historians.

As to the Church Fathers he does’t care. It has to be in Scripture. I’m thinking since he’s part of the Calvary Chapel movement he’s reading books by the founder Chuck Smith.

 

[Mannyfit75]

As to the Church Fathers he does’t care. It has to be in Scripture. I’m thinking since he’s part of the Calvary Chapel movement he’s reading books by the founder Chuck Smith.

Really? If everything have to be in the Scripture when how do you justify the doctrine of the Trinity. That’s not in the Bible, or how about the use of alter calls? That not even explicit in the Bible. I been to Non-Denomination Churches and they have alter calls.

I do seriously think that you need to ask him "is His Claim supported by history? Because if he is making such statement, his statements are just mere opinions and are not facts.

Protestants cannot produce any facts if they claim something that Catholic was founded later.

Who says that the Catholic Church was founded later and what proof does HE HAVE?

He needs to cite more sources.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Second the Bible does not even say the Catholic Church was founded later. It does say that Jesus will build his Church upon Peter.

 

[bpcatholic]

Thanks! What about his version/claim on faith alone?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Thanks! What about his version/claim on faith alone?

The Bible does say faith alone but we are not save by faith apart from works.
Letter of James Chapter 2 verse 22 and following:

[22] You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,
[23] and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God.
[24] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
[25] And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
[26] For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.

 

[bpcatholic]

What I meant was my friend says that we live out our faith by good works. He said that is what sola fide is. Is it?

 

[Mannyfit75]

What I meant was my friend says that we live out our faith by good works. He said that is what sola fide is. Is it?

Sola Fide actually professes that we are saved by faith alone. Many Protestants and Protestant scholars that works have nothing to do with us being saved.

They use verses to support this:

Gal.2
[16] yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified.

Rom.11
[6] But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Your friend does not seem to hold the view of faith alone if he does believe works does have something to do with us being save.

 

[Chipper]

What I meant was my friend says that we live out our faith by good works. He said that is what sola fide is. Is it?

Strictly speaking Sole Fide means “Only Faith”. It is a reference to saved by Faith Alone.

He tried to fast forward you to the works argument by saying that We live out our faith by good works.

Tell him about James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. "

This is the only place in the bible where it says faith alone, and it specifically says “Not by faith alone”.

 

[bpcatholic]

Your friend does not seem to hold the view of faith alone if he does believe works does have something to do with us being save.

He does not believe works have anything to do with us being saved. He does not believe we co-operate with our Salvation. Yet he says our faith is known by our works. I am really confused about what he is saying!

 

[Chipper]

I was talking to a ‘friend’ today that I haven’t seen for a good year. When I told him I was Catholic (Tiber Swim Team '08!), he wanted to know why. Naturally, I told him because the Catholic Church has been around since the time Jesus established the Curch, and protestants have only been around 500 years. He then said that it’s true that the Catholic Church has been around since the time of Christ, however the Roman Catholic Church came years later. I responded to him that the term “Roman Catholic Church” was used until after the Reformation (or around that time) and he said that the Catholic Church and Roman Catholic Church are two different things. Pretty much all Christians belong to the Catholic Church, including Roman Catholics. I don’t know what to say! He’s beliefs/views are really odd. Another issue was sola fide. He said that because we have faith, we do works so we can show others our faith. Is this really the doctrine of sola fide? Sorry if I’m just rambling! Thanks!

In addition to what the other poster stated, be it known that the term “Roman Catholic” is actually a protestant slang for referring to us “Catholics” that following the Bishop of Rome. Strictly speaking we are “Latin Rite Catholics” and only call ourselves Roman Catholics, to patronize the protestants.

 

[bpcatholic]

Strictly speaking Sole Fide means “Only Faith”. It is a reference to saved by Faith Alone.

He tried to fast forward you to the works argument by saying that We live out our faith by good works.

Tell him about James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. "

This is the only place in the bible where it says faith alone, and it specifically says “Not by faith alone”.

He used that verse to support his claim and I did not make the connection.

 

[bpcatholic]

In addition to what the other poster stated, be it known that the term “Roman Catholic” is actually a protestant slang for referring to us “Catholics” that following the Bishop of Rome. Strictly speaking we are “Latin Rite Catholics” and only call ourselves Roman Catholics, to patronize the protestants.

Ah…so we are Latin Rite and not really Roman Rite .

 

[Chipper]

He does not believe works have anything to do with us being saved. He does not believe we co-operate with our Salvation. Yet he says our faith is known by our works. I am really confused about what he is saying!

Are you sure it is you who are confused, and not him?

The James 2:24 uses the word Justified. But other translations translate it as Saved.

“you see that a man is saved by works and not by faith alone”.

The protestants really hate this one. You will see them dance and dance around this one. So don’t be confused, it is very clear after all.

 

[bpcatholic]

Are you sure it is you who are confused, and not him?

I am confused! Unless you meant he is confused. I know how he doesn’t understand, but I am trying to understand why he is seeing it the way he does.

 

[bpcatholic]

I am confused! Unless you meant he is confused.

Never mind! I haven’t spoken English for a month and I am still getting re-accustomed to it!