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blkmustang

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Can someone please help me and clarify a statement that our Deacon said last night at our RCIA class. I thought that the Adam and Eve story was real, that it actually happened. But our Deacon stated that the Adam and Eve story was a story that was just made up to explain our fallen nature. Can some please explain of the Catolic church understand Adam and Eve?
 
Can someone please help me and clarify a statement that our Deacon said last night at our RCIA class. I thought that the Adam and Eve story was real, that it actually happened. But our Deacon stated that the Adam and Eve story was a story that was just made up to explain our fallen nature. Can some please explain of the Catolic church understand Adam and Eve?
Real people who committed real sin. Not allegory, not myth, not fable, not explanatory hyperbole, But true flesh and blood people.

Thats the short version at least.
 
Can someone please help me and clarify a statement that our Deacon said last night at our RCIA class. I thought that the Adam and Eve story was real, that it actually happened. But our Deacon stated that the Adam and Eve story was a story that was just made up to explain our fallen nature. Can some please explain of the Catolic church understand Adam and Eve?
We had that discussion in RCIA on this too, this past spring. We discussed the idea that some of the literature contained in the Bible is (may be) myth. I am no expert, so I cannot say much more than that I do understand your question.

I have a friend who is a Priest in another parish, and when I asked him about this, he said not to focus on whether or not Adam and Eve were real persons (which personally, I tend to believe they DID in fact exist), but to focus on the intention of the writing. Why was it included in the Bible? Why is it scripture? What does God want us to know about Him from this story? Father said it may help to read the scriptures in the presence of the Lord, before the Blessed Sacrament, and to make prayer a part of Bible study.

Not to confuse you any further, but in reading Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body (which is amazing) particularly the first footnote following Part 3, “The Second Account of Creation: The Subjective Definition of Man,” there are some interesting comments on the role of myth in teaching. Here is the web page:

ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2tb3.htm

Clear as mud, huh? 🙂

Hope
 
Can someone please help me and clarify a statement that our Deacon said last night at our RCIA class. I thought that the Adam and Eve story was real, that it actually happened. But our Deacon stated that the Adam and Eve story was a story that was just made up to explain our fallen nature. Can some please explain of the Catolic church understand Adam and Eve?
See here for information bearing a nihil obstat and imprimatur
 
See ENCYCLICAL*** HUMANI GENERIS*** OF THE HOLY FATHER PIUS XII **12 August 1950. **Especially Paragraph 37
  1. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own
It appears to me that many deacons get much more training in Social Justice than in Catholic Theology.

The teaching of one set of original parents for mankind is critical to the concept of original sin. It is also critical to the teaching of the brotherhood of all men. If different groups evolved at different times then one can presume that some groups are more advanced than others and are natural masters.
 
We had that discussion in RCIA on this too, this past spring. We discussed the idea that some of the literature contained in the Bible is (may be) myth. I am no expert, so I cannot say much more than that I do understand your question.

I have a friend who is a Priest in another parish, and when I asked him about this, he said not to focus on whether or not Adam and Eve were real persons (which personally, I tend to believe they DID in fact exist), but to focus on the intention of the writing. Why was it included in the Bible? Why is it scripture? What does God want us to know about Him from this story? Father said it may help to read the scriptures in the presence of the Lord, before the Blessed Sacrament, and to make prayer a part of Bible study.

Not to confuse you any further, but in reading Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body (which is amazing) particularly the first footnote following Part 3, “The Second Account of Creation: The Subjective Definition of Man,” there are some interesting comments on the role of myth in teaching. Here is the web page:

ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2tb3.htm

Clear as mud, huh? 🙂

Hope
I really like the statement from Hope’s priest. I am also no expert, however, my studies with my faith, tell me that each civilzation in history had their own creation story. The book of genesis was written in 300-500 bc well after many other ot books during the babylonian exile. The israelites no longer had their own king or lands. They needed to put their historical roots into writing. The time of creation was in what is termed pre-history. We don’t know for sure;however, we do know that God loves us and He is love. He cannot by His own admonition be anything other than love. We find strngth as the israelites did in knowing of God’s mercy. Consider that the Bible is Not a “history” book, it is a theology book. It is our story as well. I also heard a wonderful priest who in his homily summed up the Bible like this…God’s people turned their back on Him, he forgave them, they messed up again. The cycle repeats itself. Amazing tha this is what happens to each of us today. Inspired book, you better believe it is. One final thought on the mythology question…just because the biblical writers may have “borrowed” from the writings of other ancient civilizations and/or used "stories"does not diminish from their message of God’s hope and mercy. I recommend one book that i love from henri nouwen on God’s unconditional love…“Return of the Prodigal Son” based on Jesus’ parable and Rembrandt’s painting. It’s a quick read. GOD BLESS YOU ON YOUR JOURNEY TO THE EASTER SACRAMENTS!
 
Can someone please help me and clarify a statement that our Deacon said last night at our RCIA class. I thought that the Adam and Eve story was real, that it actually happened. But our Deacon stated that the Adam and Eve story was a story that was just made up to explain our fallen nature. Can some please explain of the Catolic church understand Adam and Eve?
The Catholic Church teaches explicitly that Adam and Eve are the real, true, sole parents of humanity. Unfortunately, there are many different reasons why a few Catholics are afraid of reality.

Usually, when someone speaks about a story that was just made up to explain our fallen nature, what they are saying is that they really don’t know some basic dogmas of Catholicism regarding who we are and what our human nature really is.

Please accept my apology for the misunderstanding you are hearing.

Basic Catholic teaching **regarding Adam and Original Sin **is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put the word paragraph and its number in the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Entering topics, like Adam, is also very useful.

When you enter a paragraph number, like “paragraph 355”, and then click on the opening line, CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 355 you will see the following under the paragraph:

»
»
»
»
St. Charles Borromeo Home

Blessings,
granny

Our first parent Adam was the apple of God’s eye.
(example of reality and figurative language)
 
The Navarre Bible introduction to the book of Genesis states:
’The opening words of the narrative (“In the beginning God created…”) signal the purpose and even the content of the first book of the Bible–namely, to show how God acted in the early days of the world and of peoples and in particular the people of Israel. The author knows the ultimate explanation for things and for history can only be found in God. He is not attempting to provide a scientific account of reality or of history. His focus is religious; this needs to be borne in mind if we are to understand the book properly.'
 
The Navarre Bible introduction to the book of Genesis states:
’The opening words of the narrative (“In the beginning God created…”) signal the purpose and even the content of the first book of the Bible–namely, to show how God acted in the early days of the world and of peoples and in particular the people of Israel. The author knows the ultimate explanation for things and for history can only be found in God. He is not attempting to provide a scientific account of reality or of history. His focus is religious; this needs to be borne in mind if we are to understand the book properly.’
I agree. However, I have read one too many posts referring to Catholics who try to use this reasoning to deny the reality of two first parents and consequently deny original sin. This is in addition to Catholics who don’t realize that all their symbolism of some religious truth regarding bad things is actually a cover for denial of true human nature which includes the spiritual soul.

Unfortunately, some people mistake what is underscored above to mean that real events did not occur.

My apology for being so cranky. It is that there is so much beautiful truth connected with Adam that I am overwhelmed by sadness when Catholics ignore Adam and his relationship with God. How can people ever understand that we are called to share in God’s own life when the actual origin of the human species and its unique nature is objected to.
 
As I recall, DNA studies some years back traced all mankind back to a single mother.
 
As I recall, DNA studies some years back traced all mankind back to a single mother.
True, but “Mitochondrial Eve” was not the only human female alive at the time, and she lived roughly 200,000 years BCE, or 196,000 years before the “Adam” and “Eve” of the Genesis creation story. (Those two lived roughly 4000 years BCE.) Y-Chromosome Adam (from whom all human males descend) lived 50,000-80,000 years ago, and never met or mated with Mitochondrial Eve or produced offspring with her.

StAnastasia
 
If different groups evolved at different times then one can presume that some groups are more advanced than others and are natural masters.
It’s not a case of different groups evolving at different times. Homo sapiens evolved together out of their prehominid past as a population of roughly 3,000-10,000 breeding pairs. No group was a natural master of the others, although technologies were discovered and applied at different rates. The Mesoamericans did not have the functional wheel, for example, but this did not make the Spanish conquistadores their “natural masters.”
 
True, but “Mitochondrial Eve” was not the only human female alive at the time, and she lived roughly 200,000 years BCE, or 196,000 years before the “Adam” and “Eve” of the Genesis creation story. (Those two lived roughly 4000 years BCE.) Y-Chromosome Adam (from whom all human males descend) lived 50,000-80,000 years ago, and never met or mated with Mitochondrial Eve or produced offspring with her.

StAnastasia
Bolded statement does not imply what you think it means. If said statement is true, than mitochondrial eve is not the Eve of Genesis.
 
Bolded statement does not imply what you think it means. If said statement is true, than mitochondrial eve is not the Eve of Genesis.
Rather than assuming, why don’t you tell me what you think I think the statement means?
 
It’s not a case of different groups evolving at different times. Homo sapiens evolved together out of their prehominid past as a population of roughly 3,000-10,000 breeding pairs.
This is not Catholic teaching. :o
 
This is not Catholic teaching. :o
Of course not – I’m speaking from the perspective of genetic science, not that of theology. Theology has nothing to say about the collective emergence of Homo sapiens (our species) from its prehuman past. Nor does Catholic teaching have anything to say about the theory or gravity, or the theory of plate tectonics, or the theory of quantum mechanics, or the theory of embryology. None of those are Catholic teachings either, but it doesn’t mean they are not scientifically accurate.

StAnnastasia
 
I’m speaking from the perspective of genetic science, not that of theology. Theology has nothing to say about the collective emergence of Homo sapiens (our species) from its prehuman past.
StAnnastasia
Because in itself, human nature unites the material and spiritual worlds …
Because the human person is called to share, through knowledge and love, in God’s own life …
Because the human person, as creature, has the responsibilities of this status …
Because God is pure spirit without any restrictions …
Because the ultimate goal of the human person is the free choice of eternal life in the loving presence of God …
Because the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity restored the ruptured relationship of the human person with our Creator …
Because Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, established the Catholic Church …
Because the Catholic Church serves as teacher and protector of its Deposit of Faith …

Because of all of the above, Catholic Theology has everything to say about the true, fully-complete human species.
 
Because in itself, human nature unites the material and spiritual worlds … Because the human person is called to share, through knowledge and love, in God’s own life … Because the human person, as creature, has the responsibilities of this status … Because God is pure spirit without any restrictions … Because the ultimate goal of the human person is the free choice of eternal life in the loving presence of God …
Because the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity restored the ruptured relationship of the human person with our Creator … Because Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, established the Catholic Church … Because the Catholic Church serves as teacher and protector of its Deposit of Faith … Because of all of the above, Catholic Theology has everything to say about the true, fully-complete human species.
Granny, you are speaking theologically, and these are beautiful theological expressions. I am speaking scientifically. Theology cannot dictate to genetic science that the “Adam and Eve” story is literally true, any more than theology can dictate to geological or hydrological science that the Noah’s Flood story is literally true, or any more than it can dictate to astronomy that the story of Joshua commanding the sun to stand still is literally true.

StAnastasia
 
Consider that the Bible is Not a “history” book, it is a theology book. It is our story as well. I also heard a wonderful priest who in his homily summed up the Bible like this…God’s people turned their back on Him, he forgave them, they messed up again. The cycle repeats itself. Amazing tha this is what happens to each of us today. Inspired book, you better believe it is.
Nicely put!
One final thought on the mythology question…just because the biblical writers may have “borrowed” from the writings of other ancient civilizations and/or used "stories"does not diminish from their message of God’s hope and mercy.
Indeed, while borrowing ancient stories, under divine inspiration they refined the theological focus of the stories and wove them architectonically into the narrative of salvation history.

StAnastasia
 
Granny, you are speaking theologically, and these are beautiful theological expressions. I am speaking scientifically. Theology cannot dictate to genetic science that the “Adam and Eve” story is literally true, any more than theology can dictate to geological or hydrological science that the Noah’s Flood story is literally true, or any more than it can dictate to astronomy that the story of Joshua commanding the sun to stand still is literally true.

StAnastasia
Perhaps there is a bit of confusion here.:confused: Regarding the purpose of Catholic Theology?

People look to Catholic Theology for answers about God and human beings. Why the comment about dictating to genetic science? Genetic science concerns biological anatomies which eventually decompose.

It is important to understand that our spiritual souls do not decompose because they are spirit and are not restricted by the laws of matter. This is why it is extremely important to properly understand post 17 above. If you have any questions about Catholic Theology teachings, I will try to answer them.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is the pinnacle of God’s creation.
 
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