Helping a Protestant to understand the perfection of Mary

[vincent10395]

Genesis 3:15:

God talking to the serpent

"And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

The women referred here can’t be Eve because the context of this passage is right after they both sinned. Her offspring is Jesus who will destroy the serpent (Satan)

-Vince

 

[ChrisB103]

Now I think I have an understanding of Mary being the Ark of the Covenant but I have no idea how to explain to a Protestant that does not have a Catholic understanding. Is there a way to explain this to her. Are there other things in the bible that can help explain the perfection of Mary? Any help would be much appreciated. God bless!

I like to expound upon Genesis 3:15 to understand Mary’s immaculate state. Here are a few of the high points:

1. Mary is the woman spoken of. Here’s a good description I found:

"Before the fall of Adam of Eve, Eve had not yet received her name. Instead, she was just referred to as “Woman.” After the fall, God promised the advent of another “woman” in Genesis 3:15, or a “New Eve” who would oppose Lucifer, and whose “seed” would crush his head. This “woman” and “her seed” would reverse the curse, so to speak, that the original “man” and “woman” had brought upon humanity through their disobedience.

When we then look at the New Covenant, Jesus is explicitly referred to as the “last Adam,” or the “New Adam” in 1 Cor. 15:45. And Jesus himself indicates that Mary is the prophetic “woman” or “New Eve” of Genesis 3:15 when he refers to his mother as “woman” in John 2:4 and 19:26. Moreover, St. John refers to Mary as “woman” eight times in Revelation 12. As the first Eve brought death to all of her children through disobedience and heeding the words of the ancient serpent, the devil, the “New Eve” of Revelation 12 brings life and salvation to all of her children through her obedience. The same “serpent” who deceived the original woman of Genesis is revealed, in Revelation 12, to fail in his attempt to overcome this new woman. The New Eve overcomes the serpent and as a result, “The serpent is angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God, and bear testimony to Jesus” (Rev. 12:17)."

1. To have enmity from the devil implies a complete lack of following his ways, aka absence of sin.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Luke 1:28 and similar verse.

The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word KECHARITOMENE.

Lets take a look at this…

kecharitomene.com/

Here’s John 1:14

Byzantine Majority
kai o logoV sarx egeneto kai eskhnwsen en hmin kai eqeasameqa thn doxan autou doxan wV monogenouV para patroV plhrhV caritoV kai alhqeiaV

Alexandrian
kai o logoV sarx egeneto kai eskhnwsen en hmin kai eqeasameqa thn doxan autou doxan wV monogenouV para patroV plhrhV caritoV kai alhqeiaV

Acts 6:8

Byzantine Majority
stefanoV de plhrhV pistews kai dunamewV epoiei terata kai shmeia megala en tw law

Alexandrian
stefanoV de plhrhV caritos kai dunamewV epoiei terata kai shmeia megala en tw law

Luke 1:28

Byzantine Majority
kai eiselqwn o aggelos proV authn eipen caire kecaritwmenh o kurioV meta sou euloghmenh su en gunaixin

Alexandrian
kai eiselqwn proV authn eipen caire kecaritwmenh o kurioV meta sou

Greek Bible Translation here…

greeknewtestament.com/B48C005.htm

And the usually incorrect protestant translation here…

carm.org/mary-full-grace-and-luke-128

So they basically go like this…

Luke 1:28
kai eiselqwn proV authn eipen, caire, kecaritwmenh, o kurioV meta sou.

John 1:14
kai o logoV sarx egeneto kai eskhnwsen en hmin, kai eqeasameqa thn doxan autou, doxan wV monogenouV para patroV, plhrhV caritoV kai alhqeiaV.

Acts 6:8
stefanoV de plhrhV caritoV kai dunamewV epoiei terata kai shmeia megala en tw law.

Xapitow

The root word is charitoo [caritow], which means “to grace, favor.” On this much, it seems, all agree. All the common English translations of the word therefore, regardless of whether the translators are Catholic or Protestant, use some form of “grace” or “favor” in them.

ke

The prefix on charitoo is ke, signifying that the word is in the perfect tense. This indicates a present state which is the result of a completed past action. The action which brought about the state in which Mary is, in other words, was completed before Gabriel’s greeting. Gabriel is viewing the finished results.

This tense seems difficult to render in English, especially with one word, as Gabriel uses. The translator does not only want to indicate that the past action is complete, but also that there is a continuing state as a result. Allowing for more than one word, an example of the tense in English might be “you are certified to teach.” “Are” indicates a present state, “certified” shows that the state is the result of a completed past action.

ILeve

The suffix on charitoo, mene, makes this a passive participle. “Passive” means that the action is performed on the subject, in this case Mary, by another agent. The verb is “grace” and the implied subject is Mary. The passive usage means that “someone graced Mary,” rather than “Mary graced.” Most theologians would probably accept the assumption that the implied “someone” is God. “Participle,” in this case, means that the word has properties of both a verb and a noun. This makes sense in light of what has already been said about direct address. A direct address is a noun or pronoun, but “to grace” is a verb. Kecharitomene has verb and noun properties.

oocities.org/athens/Atrium/8410/kecharitomene.html

The above link is so-so but it adds a bit of clarity.

 

[cguerber]

Yeah, for whatever reason the English site is using the NAB, not really sure why to be honest. I get the feeling the USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) had something to do with it, with the reason of it being more easy to understand??? Just a guess on my part.

Anyway, the official Bible of the Catholic Church I think would actually be the Latin Vulgate. Now when u look at Luke 1: 28 (using the Latin Vulgate), the verse is:

“Ave, gratia plena, Dominus tecum”.

And if u do a word for word translation:

Ave = Hail
gratia = grace
plena = full
Dominus = Lord
tecum = with

If ‘full of grace’ means ‘sinless’, then what is Stephen?

Acts 6:8 (NAB)
Now Stephen, *filled with grace *and power, was working great wonders and signs among the people.

 

[GaryTaylor]

If ‘full of grace’ means ‘sinless’, then what is Stephen?

Acts 6:8 (NAB)
Now Stephen, *filled with grace *and power, was working great wonders and signs among the people.

Its right above your post which you read?

 

[concretecamper]

If ‘full of grace’ means ‘sinless’, then what is Stephen?

Acts 6:8 (NAB)
Now Stephen, *filled with grace *and power, was working great wonders and signs among the people.

In Acts, the phase “full of grace” is used as an adjective…it describes Stephen.

In Luke, the phrase “full of grace” is the name Gabriel calls Mary. Gabriel did not say Hail Mary, full of grace.

Big, Big differnce.

 

[LennyFL]

The Angel Gabriel referred to her as “Full of Grace”, God’s own words to his most perfection creation. If she would have had ANY sin, that greeting would have been impossible.

She was told ALL generations (including ours) would call her “blessed” as a result.

Consider she was the Mother of God, the Mother of Jesus. Luke 1:41-44…A good tree can’t bear bad fruit. A bad tree can’t bear good fruit. How can she bear Jesus if she had ANY sin?

We were told in Isaiah 7:14 that the messiah would be born of a virgin.

Further, in Ezekiah 44: 2 that God had entered and therefore, the gate would remain shut, after that.

She was a virgin before and after. She still is a virgin.

How do we know that full of grace means sinless. Could I get more clarification on this please? Thank you. God bless!