Here is a question

[Cari]

What I find curious is the whole motivation behind the question. Since the OP is a Muslim, what is the reason for asking a question about practical applications of Charity to a board of mostly Catholics? Is it to get the Catholic view of Charitable duty? Since this is an issue that, I gather from your post, isn’t simply academic, but something quite close to your heart at the moment, do you really care what Christian teachings dictate? Asking for Christian-based advice on this particular matter woud be like me asking for Islamic-based advice on how to, say, deal with a rude co-worker.

Or, to put it another way: What does Islam teach one to do in a situation like this?

 

[BH_Manners]

When I asked if your employer had a “good reason” for letting you go…I meant was he downsizing his company…was he retiring your position(which happened to me) or were you not performing your duties? There are many valid reasons for dismissing an employee. There are also companies that have grievance committees when you are fired. I would think that your employer might have felt he had good reason because otherwise you might have had recourse through Unemployment Insurance. In one
regard you are right…when it comes to business…it is the bottom line that counts and if you are not performing up to standards, he had every reason to fire you. It is a business after all.

I guess if you were cynical you could look at it that way. I didn’t…it was business…nothing personal. When they decided to discard me…I got a very profitable separation package, so i didn’t feel all that bad. LOL

It seems to me that you are very angry and that is presenting itself as a most cynical manner. I hope you are able to come to terms with your anger and let it go, it will eat you alive. Like I said…about helping your former boss…that is something that will have to come from your heart and only you know if the desire is there to help another human being. Let your conscience be your guide. You can choose to help a person in need and be a better person for it and show what kindness to your fellow man is all about, or you can choose to let him slide on his own…that is between you and your conscience.

You never know, by helping him it might be something that might make him re-think how he treats people in his life.

Good luck.

I put in for unemployment but found another job before having to use it. In this regard I was lucky.

You made the comment that if I was not performing the required duties he had every right to let me go. This is the Darwinian survival of the fittest mentality at work here.

Years later he needs help. He ain’t fit so he just can’t survive and has no business expecting me to give him something he wasn’t going to give me.

 

[BH_Manners]

What I find curious is the whole motivation behind the question. Since the OP is a Muslim, what is the reason for asking a question about practical applications of Charity to a board of mostly Catholics? Is it to get the Catholic view of Charitable duty? Since this is an issue that, I gather from your post, isn’t simply academic, but something quite close to your heart at the moment, do you really care what Christian teachings dictate? Asking for Christian-based advice on this particular matter woud be like me asking for Islamic-based advice on how to, say, deal with a rude co-worker.

Or, to put it another way: What does Islam teach one to do in a situation like this?

I have found that wisdom comes from places you don’t expect to find it. Do you have any wisdom?

 

[BH_Manners]

I note that the OP identifies him/herself as a Muslim, so this truth may, unfortunately, be beyond him/her.

Islam teaches us to be charitable but it also teaches us to demand justice and punish those who wrong us.

The Quran teaches that we have certain rights simply for being human beings and the right to the basics of life is one of them.

 

[Cari]

I have found that wisdom comes from places you don’t expect to find it. Do you have any wisdom?

Yes. Here it is: The man in question did something that made you angry (at this point, I can’t remember if you explained why you were terminated or not). You have a chance to prove yourself the better person by offering charity to one in need. Even if not motivated by Christian morals and ethics, there is still altruism, which, last I checked, wasn’t copyrighted by any particular religion.

Your OP asked:

Better yet, if I am required to give him charity why isn’t he required to have done the same for me?

And so I ask- by what guidelines do you find yourself “required” to give him charity? By Islamic guidelines? If so, then why ask a Catholic forum what it thinks? By secular guidelines? Then you already answered it when you wrote:

You made the comment that if I was not performing the required duties he had every right to let me go. This is the Darwinian survival of the fittest mentality at work here.

Years later he needs help. He ain’t fit so he just can’t survive and has no business expecting me to give him something he wasn’t going to give me.

If you’re looking for Catholic guidelines, then it’s already been expressed:

Originally Posted by drafdog
You are responsible for your brother, no matter how badly he may have treated you. The entire Bible is God’s commentary on the answer to Cain’s question.
Jesus dying for our sins is the action that should be our yardstick.

So there’s my wisdom. Worth as much as you’ve paid for it.

 

[LilyM]

Islam teaches us to be charitable but it also teaches us to demand justice and punish those who wrong us.

The Quran teaches that we have certain rights simply for being human beings and the right to the basics of life is one of them.

Fine - if he did something to you which was illegal in your termination, then that’s the way to punish him, make him answer for breaking the law.

And of course you have a right to the basics of life - what do you think unemployment is all about? It’s society’s job to support you, which they do through welfare when you’re unemployed, **not **your individual employer’s.

Having a contract of employment doesn’t mean you have a right to a job for the rest of your life. You have a right to a job as long as the employer needs you, and you have a right to whatever amount of notice or redundancy payment the contract entitles you to. That’s why you read a contract carefully before you sign it!

It occurs to me that giving only to those who have given to you in the past isnt charity at all. It’s justice. Charity is helping someone even when they don’t have a right to help from you.

And surely a most praiseworthy form of charity would be helping your enemy? Don’t you think you can bring them to God that way? They would wonder why you’re helping them when they haven’t done anything to deserve your help.

 

[mesquite_magic]

Jennifer123;2170482:

This is a very strange thread. I didn’t know anyone in the World Trade Center, not anyone hit by the Tsunami, nor anyone living in New Orleans. But it never occurred to me to ask, “Have they done anything to merit my aid?”

I like this reply. It doesn’t matter weather you are Christian, Muslim, Buddist, or Atheist, basic humanity tells you to help those less fortunate.

My husband’s ex wife has done some pretty despicable things to me, yet when she had a nervous breakdown on my living room floor, I couldn’t stand by and not help her. YKWIM? That would be cruel and my consceance(sp?) would never let me rest if I didn’t help.

Kim

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

You made the comment that if I was not performing the required duties he had every right to let me go. This is the Darwinian survival of the fittest mentality at work here.

Years later he needs help. He ain’t fit so he just can’t survive and has no business expecting me to give him something he wasn’t going to give me.

I don’t know of many employers who would keep someone on the payroll if they were not satisfactorily performing their required job duties. I know if I were an employer I wouldn’t. I would conference with the employee and say what I expect of them and give them a certain amount of time to improve, or I would let them go. Would YOU pay someone to do a job if they weren’t doing it right?

No, your former employer cannot expect anything from you. No one should EXPECT anything from anyone else for that matter. You have to decide in your heart for yourself if you can forgive and be the bigger person.

Peace…
:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I used the quote function from OP’s response to you. It makes it appear as if you stated quote. Sorry you were offended.

Thanks Jennifer…sorry for the minsunderstanding…

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Islam teaches us to be charitable but it also teaches us to demand justice and punish those who wrong us.

The Quran teaches that we have certain rights simply for being human beings and the right to the basics of life is one of them.

***PUNISH ***someone who wrongs you? First of all WHO decides if you have been “wronged” or not? What if you punish the wrong person? There are many times 2 sides to every story and you might not be in the right after all.

When the Quran says you are entitled to the basics of life…does it mean someone else has to provide that for you?

:heart:Blyss

 

[Jennifer123]

Thanks Jennifer…sorry for the minsunderstanding…

:heart:Blyss

No problem - I have to say it happened to me too, Vern’s response was attributed to me so I just want to set that straight.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Several things are being mixed here which is creating your issue

1. What it means to be employed
2. What it means to stop employment
3. Insecurity
4. Misguided religion
5. Employment is simply a exchange agreement between two individual to exchange ie labor for money. The agreements must be volunteer by both parties (that is the law)
6. Stopping employment is simply that as all work in the US must be volunteer and thus either person can end the agreement at any time.

Addendum : The “employment at will” or “Larez contract” is real but highly limited it means: An “employment at will” is am implied contract is established by continuous actions, thus contract must be stopped by formal action and in enforced until the formal action. Larez contracts have no real legal base. Larez contracts believe employees and employers owe each other to cooperation to a progressive future. Larez contracts are more morally based behavior and not legally based.

1. Insecurity: In the free market system people change jobs often for all types of reasons. The average person accepts a job about every 2 years of their employment career. Yes it is that high. About a third to half of these offers to not really workout to be primary employment, in fact some may be single day events. When an insecure person is working in the free market they become apprehensive at the idea of not know where or when they will work in the future.
2. Misguided religion: The Quran does not instruct anyone to destroy the cooperation used to improve people. The imperfections of this system do not justify such actions

In summary your actions are your actions, his actions are his actions.

 

[BH_Manners]

***PUNISH ***someone who wrongs you? First of all WHO decides if you have been “wronged” or not? What if you punish the wrong person? There are many times 2 sides to every story and you might not be in the right after all.

When the Quran says you are entitled to the basics of life…does it mean someone else has to provide that for you?

:heart:Blyss

the Quran mentions we are entitled to items of common use, i.e. the basic necessities of life. The requirement could be met through many different means such as the zakat Muslims must pay, provate charity, or even the welfare someone earlier mentioned. The bottom line is that a person has a God given right to the basics of life (except a murderer) regardless of any economic gain that person may bring to someone else.

The person who fired me offered me no help of any kind and has asked me to help him. What I am trying to figure out is the best way to teach him a lesson. If he thinks of people as just a tool to throw away and not have to help then would he learn different if I treat him the same way. Or, should I help him even though he didn’t do it for me and he is the type who would put two and two together and get the point.

I’m not too concerned about vengence but justice. He needs to learn that to be just is to be charitable and I can’t figure out if he is hardheaded and has to learn the hard way or maybe he is softhearted enough to reflect and see where he made a mistake.

His life isn’t in danger or anything and even if I don’t help him he will still probably get what he needs. If for some reason he doesn’t I’ll go ahead and do something for him. It’s just that people are different and have to learn lessons different ways.

 

[BH_Manners]

Update.

My former employer admitted that he has no right to ask for my help because he did not do anything for me. He then broke down.

I have given him the aid he requested.

 

[Cari]

What I am trying to figure out is the best way to teach him a lesson.

I guess the question is, what lesson do you think he needs to learn? The lesson of God’s infinate Mercy flowing through mere humans? The lesson of turning the other cheek? The lesson of “you did me wrong, now it’s my turn to do the same”?

If he thinks of people as just a tool to throw away and not have to help then would he learn different if I treat him the same way.

IF he thinks of people in that way (and one gets into dangerous ground, assuming one knows the heart of another), then by giving as you got, you’ll be doing nothing but reinforcing his worldview. How would treating him as a “tool to throw away and not have to help” be teaching him this is wrong?

I’m not too concerned about vengence but justice.
He needs to learn that to be just is to be charitable

Justice and Charity aren’t the same things at all. In fact, sometimes they’re in direct opposition to one another.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Update.

My former employer admitted that he has no right to ask for my help because he did not do anything for me. He then broke down.

I have given him the aid he requested.

Good for you! You will be a better person for having done so…

God Bless…

:heart:Blyss

 

[vern_humphrey]

the Quran mentions we are entitled to items of common use, i.e. the basic necessities of life. The requirement could be met through many different means such as the zakat Muslims must pay, provate charity, or even the welfare someone earlier mentioned. The bottom line is that a person has a God given right to the basics of life (except a murderer) regardless of any economic gain that person may bring to someone else.

The person who fired me offered me no help of any kind

He gave you a job, didn’t he? And the tone of your posts indicates you were responsible for your own termination.

What I am trying to figure out is the best way to teach him a lesson.

Perhaps you should be trying to figure out the best way to learn your own lesson.

If he thinks of people as just a tool to throw away and not have to help then would he learn different if I treat him the same way. Or, should I help him even though he didn’t do it for me and he is the type who would put two and two together and get the point.

To offer help to those in need is a duty.

I’m not too concerned about vengence but justice.

When you appoint yourself judge, prosecutor and jury and pass judgement on others, that is not justice. That is vengence.

 

[BH_Manners]

He gave you a job, didn’t he? And the tone of your posts indicates you were responsible for your own termination.

Perhaps you should be trying to figure out the best way to learn your own lesson.

To offer help to those in need is a duty.

When you appoint yourself judge, prosecutor and jury and pass judgement on others, that is not justice. That is vengence.

I could turn right around and say he was responsible for the fix he was in couldn’t I? What ever happened to the idea that some things may simply be out of our control, or that hindsight is always better than forsight? Why am I somehow looked at as being undeserving of empathy because I was an employee yet he is somehow worthy of special consideration because he was the employer?

I can’t understand why a lot of you think survival of the fittest is okay when at work but someone should not apply it outside work in personal relations. to me it is illogical. Sure, I went ahead and help the guy after he broke down but it makes no sense why mercy can’t/shouldn’t be shown at work or in business dealings but we are supposed to do so away from work.

If a person can’t do a job too bad. Survival of the fittest says that person loses their job and it’s that person’s problem. The employer later needs help but it is immoral to apply the same morality against him.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I could turn right around and say he was responsible for the fix he was in couldn’t I?

You can s**ay **anything you like. That doesn’t make it true.

What ever happened to the idea that some things may simply be out of our control, or that hindsight is always better than forsight? Why the lack of empathy I see in your post towards me yet I feel you somehow empathize with the employer?

You are attacking a man who isn’t here, can’t defend himself, and your clear intention against him is revenge.

He did me no favors giving me a job. He did that for himself.

Wow! What a nasty thing to say!

 

[BH_Manners]

You can s**ay **anything you like. That doesn’t make it true.

You are attacking a man who isn’t here, can’t defend himself, and your clear intention against him is revenge.

Wow! What a nasty thing to say!

1. I said nothing specific against him or the reasons for terminating the employment. All I said was that I was wondering if I should help him out after he did not do the same thing for me, as a matter of justice.
2. I can’t attack him because I have not gone into detail why we parted ways.
3. Why is speaking the truth a nasty thing to say. People don’t employe other people just to be nice do they?

The business world functions on the “survival of the fittest” maxim which he was acting on. He later found himself in need of help. He was not “fit” in the sense he needed the help of others and therefore not worthy of survival according to the Darwinian logic used in the businessworld. It seems if it is acceptable to use that morality in the businessworld it is acceptable to use it outside business too.

I later said that I did in fact help him. I guess what I am getting as is that I can’t resolve the contradiction between the moral worldview of the businesworld with helping the guy out later.