Here is something I don't know about Catholicism...

[Lapell]

I also enjoyed your mentioning Tevye’s prayer to God Almighty in Fiddler on the Roof… Indeed, that’s prayer all right! I found the part, when he was tired of pulling the cart, where he said to God: “O.K., I’ll push the cart instead!” quite an idea… although after a few other feet he would have to complain to God again, I was quite sure. But at least, “ça changeait le mal de place”, as we say in French (an expression meaning that it would put the pain elsewhere).

 

[wisdomseeker]

do Catholics feel it is important to have a personal relationship with God? Or do they feel going to Mass and saying all the prescribed prayers is enough?

In Judaism, we have a movement similar in some ways to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (except that we do not speak in tongues!) Our movement was developed for those Jews of all branches (Orthodox, Chasidic Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, etc) who wanted to continue attending their usual synagogues, but who felt the need for a more personal, more spiritual way of worshipping. We have weekly prayer meetings and gatherings, which are in addition to the mainstream synagogues we usually go to. The worship is much more lively, personalized, friendly.

I know that in the Catholic church, you have the Charismatic Renewal movement for Catholics who felt the need for a more personal walk with God.

Do other Catholics, who are not in the CCR, feel a need for getting to know God in a personal way, who would like to be able to just sit down and talk to God in prayer as if He were a good friend sitting right next to you, rather than always using prayers written by someone else?

This may be a separate topic, but to me its related: What do most Catholics feel about Catholic mysticism, such as the writings of Thomas Merton? How do people in all mainstream faiths here (Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, etc) feel about the mystical “branches” of your religions?

Unfortunately, there have been people in the traditional religions who have felt pulled away from their own faiths, due to what they perceived as a lack of mysticism in their home religion. This may be why so many Catholics have moved over to Wicca, why many Jews have moved over to Buddhism, etc

Yet in each of the world’s main religions, there are mystical “wings”, sometimes yet to be discovered.

In the Kabbalah, it says that a Jew does not need to leave his own “home” (religion) to find what he is looking for. This, I would think, would apply to people in all faiths who might be searching for a way to have a deeper walk with their God.

This brings me to mind. the times when Moses went up the mountain. people became bored and began to look for excitement. well we know what happened then.

***“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… ***

 

[wisdomseeker]

do Catholics feel it is important to have a personal relationship with God? Or do they feel going to Mass and saying all the prescribed prayers is enough?

In Judaism, we have a movement similar in some ways to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (except that we do not speak in tongues!) Our movement was developed for those Jews of all branches (Orthodox, Chasidic Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, etc) who wanted to continue attending their usual synagogues, but who felt the need for a more personal, more spiritual way of worshipping. We have weekly prayer meetings and gatherings, which are in addition to the mainstream synagogues we usually go to. The worship is much more lively, personalized, friendly.

I know that in the Catholic church, you have the Charismatic Renewal movement for Catholics who felt the need for a more personal walk with God.

Do other Catholics, who are not in the CCR, feel a need for getting to know God in a personal way, who would like to be able to just sit down and talk to God in prayer as if He were a good friend sitting right next to you, rather than always using prayers written by someone else?

This may be a separate topic, but to me its related: What do most Catholics feel about Catholic mysticism, such as the writings of Thomas Merton? How do people in all mainstream faiths here (Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, etc) feel about the mystical “branches” of your religions?

Unfortunately, there have been people in the traditional religions who have felt pulled away from their own faiths, due to what they perceived as a lack of mysticism in their home religion. This may be why so many Catholics have moved over to Wicca, why many Jews have moved over to Buddhism, etc

Yet in each of the world’s main religions, there are mystical “wings”, sometimes yet to be discovered.

In the Kabbalah, it says that a Jew does not need to leave his own “home” (religion) to find what he is looking for. This, I would think, would apply to people in all faiths who might be searching for a way to have a deeper walk with their God.

What can be more personal than to be obedient to God? specially when it comes to believe in His Son Our Lord Jesus and His Church which He stablished to instruct us into all truth?

“***I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… ***

 

[Sepharad]

I think it’s hard to say: “this one has a personal relation with God” and “this one hasn’t”. There are some people who have a personal relationship with God, but won’t think they do, while there are people who think they’re having a true relationship with God when the way they’re talking one might think they rather are in relationship with themselves!
As for myself, my impression is that sometimes I do, and sometimes I don’t. I do recite prayers every day, I often recite some of the Hours, with some Psalms… I sometimes utter something to God, sometimes like “It is time that something be done to help these people”, sometimes it’s something else.
I hadn’t heard of that Jewish renewal thing, I would like to hear or read more about it.
Will Moment Magazine present a report on it someday?
(At first, when you mentioned that “similar movement in Judaism”, I thought you were referring to the Chassidic movement, at least at its beginnings!!! Apparently that really was something great!

Jewish Renewal (which I only recently discovered myself) is a spin-off of Chasidism, with a lot more personalized worship and vibrancy. I discovered them because I felt a need for a closer walk with God in a more personal way, and to my great surprise, I’ve found that some of the teachings in the JRM are helping me in other ways as well.

Some of the books put out by JRM leaders that I’m reading right now are:

“Jewish With Feeling–a Guide to Meaningful Jewish Practice” by Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi

“From Age-ing to Sage-ing–A Profound New Vision of Growing Older” by Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi (Note: this book has been immensely helpful to me, and a senior lady at the JRM meeting first told me about it…after my mother died 3 months ago, I felt very terrified to grow old myself, because I saw how her health degenerated so quickly, and I saw how the elders in our society are treated like things to be warehoused…this book has helped me incredibly to see the positive side of growing older!)

"“The Path of Blessing” by Marcia Prager

I don’t agree with everything they do or say, but I do agree with enough of it which is all that matters for me. They are not a denomination within Judaism, but an addition. There are Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Jews who attend their meetings, and even some nonJews as well.

 

[Sepharad]

I also enjoyed your mentioning Tevye’s prayer to God Almighty in Fiddler on the Roof… Indeed, that’s prayer all right! I found the part, when he was tired of pulling the cart, where he said to God: “O.K., I’ll push the cart instead!” quite an idea… although after a few other feet he would have to complain to God again, I was quite sure. But at least, “ça changeait le mal de place”, as we say in French (an expression meaning that it would put the pain elsewhere).

I loved that film, and yes, Tevye’s way of praying is mostly my way too. I think all of us sometimes just want to talk to God in a way that really speaks from our hearts, and not just words someone else wrote for us to say, you know?

My 8 year old likes to tell her friends, “My Mommy talks to God ALL the time, she doesn’t wait to go to synagogue either!”

 

[dessert]

I guess what I’m also saying is, evidently there are those in all religions that feel a need for a more lively, personal worship experience than what they can get in their usual church or synagogue…and for these groups, their livelier worship stems from their involvement in the mysticism of their respective religion.

This is perhaps why many Catholics are active in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, why many Protestants are active in Pentecostal churches, and why many Jews are active in Jewish Renewal worship as well (here is one example): youtube.com/watch?v=eGr2Y9XlBX0

(Yes they are Jews and no they are not “messianic” or Christian!)

Why would you not speak in tongues if this gift is given to you?

Each gift of the Spirit is essential for the body.

 

[Sepharad]

Why would you not speak in tongues if this gift is given to you?

Each gift of the Spirit is essential for the body.

Speaking on tongues is not part of Jewish worship or practice. Its a Christian thing, from what I understand.

 

[dessert]

Speaking on tongues is not part of Jewish worship or practice. Its a Christian thing, from what I understand.

It is, from the NT so you would more than likely not agree with it. But why don’t you pray about it and if it is offered to you accept it.

 

[Sepharad]

It is, from the NT so you would more than likely not agree with it. But why don’t you pray about it and if it is offered to you accept it.

I don’t pray to God for things I know are from other religions. We were warned about that kind of thing in the Torah, you know!

 

[dessert]

I don’t pray to God for things I know are from other religions. We were warned about that kind of thing in the Torah, you know!

Do you think we invented it?

What were you warned about?

 

[Sepharad]

Do you think we invented it?

What were you warned about?

Deut. 12. God warned us not to inquire as to how other people worship their gods, and decide to worship The One God in like manner.

 

[catharina]

Sepharad -

I think maybe Francis of Assisi is the best known of Catholic mystics.

A few others who come to mind?
Catherine of Siena
Teresa of Avila

 

[Sepharad]

Sepharad -

I think maybe Francis of Assisi is the best known of Catholic mystics.

A few others who come to mind?
Catherine of Siena
Teresa of Avila

There was also St John of the Cross (“Dark Night of the Soul”).

 

[dessert]

Deut. 12. God warned us not to inquire as to how other people worship their gods, and decide to worship The One God in like manner.

God wants to give you a gift, do you think it would be a stone?

If it comes from Him it would be a blessing not a curse.

 

[dessert]

St. Charbel is a good mystic to study. From south Lebanon.

 

[Sepharad]

St. Charbel is a good mystic to study. From south Lebanon.

I’ve actually studied and read writings by mystics of all religions: Tibetan Buddhism, Hinduism, Catholicism, Judaism. In fact the rabbi who founded the Jewish Renewal Movement is good friends with mystics in all the major faiths, and has studied with them.

This does not mean I (or he) share their beliefs; but we do admire the mysticism in all faiths, including our own.

 

[exoflare]

Jews are able to pray to God anywhere! In fact the HOME is considered the true center of Jewish life, not the synagogue really. We do not believe God dwells in buildings at this time.

“…at this time”?

 

[Sepharad]

“…at this time”?

I was referring to the fact that the Temple is currently not standing, but will be again soon.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I was referring to the fact that the Temple is currently not standing, but will be again soon.

Tell me how the temple is going to be built again.

:bowdown: :angel1:

 

[mangy_dog]

do Catholics feel it is important to have a personal relationship with God? Or do they feel going to Mass and saying all the prescribed prayers is enough?

In Judaism, we have a movement similar in some ways to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (except that we do not speak in tongues!) Our movement was developed for those Jews of all branches (Orthodox, Chasidic Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, etc) who wanted to continue attending their usual synagogues, but who felt the need for a more personal, more spiritual way of worshipping. We have weekly prayer meetings and gatherings, which are in addition to the mainstream synagogues we usually go to. The worship is much more lively, personalized, friendly.

I know that in the Catholic church, you have the Charismatic Renewal movement for Catholics who felt the need for a more personal walk with God.

Do other Catholics, who are not in the CCR, feel a need for getting to know God in a personal way, who would like to be able to just sit down and talk to God in prayer as if He were a good friend sitting right next to you, rather than always using prayers written by someone else?

This may be a separate topic, but to me its related: What do most Catholics feel about Catholic mysticism, such as the writings of Thomas Merton? How do people in all mainstream faiths here (Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, etc) feel about the mystical “branches” of your religions?

Unfortunately, there have been people in the traditional religions who have felt pulled away from their own faiths, due to what they perceived as a lack of mysticism in their home religion. This may be why so many Catholics have moved over to Wicca, why many Jews have moved over to Buddhism, etc

Yet in each of the world’s main religions, there are mystical “wings”, sometimes yet to be discovered.

In the Kabbalah, it says that a Jew does not need to leave his own “home” (religion) to find what he is looking for. This, I would think, would apply to people in all faiths who might be searching for a way to have a deeper walk with their God.

Yes. Besides the Charismatic movement there is also the Cursillo and John XXIII movements. There are others but these three are particularly interesting because they are Father centered(John XXIII); Christ centered (Cursillo) and Spirit centered (Charismatic).
Often times catholics who deepen their faith in these movements end up discovering the more spiritual/mystical aspects of catholicism.
Merton happens to be my favorite and I happen to be of the Charismatic movement since the mid 70’s.
It is important to note also that there are Marian movements in the catholic church. There is the Legio Mariae and the Marian Movement of Priests. These center on the mysteries surrounding the Immaculate, Perpetual Virign Mother of God or Theotokos and her messages as well as the rosary.
Unfortunately (as I am sure you’ve observed also) people still leave the catholic church looking for “something else” “out-there”…not realizing that what they are looking for is “in there”…in the Eucharist, in the mysteries of the Holy Rosary, in the sacraments of confession and communion. Some end up coming back with a greater fervor…others don’t - and so we pray and meditate and contemplate.

Thank you for your post. Shalom! and
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.