Here is something I don't know about Catholicism...

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Yes. Besides the Charismatic movement there is also the Cursillo and John XXIII movements. There are others but these three are particularly interesting because they are Father centered(John XXIII); Christ centered (Cursillo) and Spirit centered (Charismatic).
Often times catholics who deepen their faith in these movements end up discovering the more spiritual/mystical aspects of catholicism.
Merton happens to be my favorite and I happen to be of the Charismatic movement since the mid 70’s.
It is important to note also that there are Marian movements in the catholic church. There is the Legio Mariae and the Marian Movement of Priests. These center on the mysteries surrounding the Immaculate, Perpetual Virign Mother of God or Theotokos and her messages as well as the rosary.
Unfortunately (as I am sure you’ve observed also) people still leave the catholic church looking for “something else” “out-there”…not realizing that what they are looking for is “in there”…in the Eucharist, in the mysteries of the Holy Rosary, in the sacraments of confession and communion. Some end up coming back with a greater fervor…others don’t - and so we pray and meditate and contemplate.

Thank you for your post. Shalom! and
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
Your last paragraph is something I often say about Judaism as well. Too many Jews grew up in a time when Judaism had become stultified, fossilized, and people did things by rote.

There are movements in Judaism today that change all of that, and many Jews have returned from (usually) eastern religions when they see that Judaism can also be deeply profound and mystical. Many Jews, and Catholics too, do not realize that the deeper spirituality they were searching for, CAN be found in their birth religions, they just had to discover it!

There is a saying in the Jewish mystical writings, that says we do not have to leave our own ‘house’ (religion) to find what we are looking for.
 
How can the Temple be re-built when the Ark of the Covenant is gone?
The same way the Second Temple was rebuilt…(remember, the Ark became lost after the Babylonians destroyed the FIRST Temple.)

But if you have any other questions, I’m sure these folk can answer them:

templemount.org

Now, some Biblical archaelogists believe the Ark is buried deep under the Dome of the Rock, on the Temple Mount…but the Muslims who occupy it would not allow any excavations to be done.

Here is an article with some more info on the Ark:

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/ark.html
 
There is nothing closer to God than the Eucharist, which is Jesus. Additionally, we have the reassurance that God is with us and hears us. What it all boils down to is that when we trust that we are close to God and act accordingly, no proof is necessary other than the graces he gives us. " if they do not believe moses and the scriptures, they will not believe even if someone rises from the dead. " This is paraphrased from the story of the rich man and lazarus. We don’t need to hear or see God literally to know he is right with us.
 
Your last paragraph is something I often say about Judaism as well. Too many Jews grew up in a time when Judaism had become stultified, fossilized, and people did things by rote.

There are movements in Judaism today that change all of that, and many Jews have returned from (usually) eastern religions when they see that Judaism can also be deeply profound and mystical. Many Jews, and Catholics too, do not realize that the deeper spirituality they were searching for, CAN be found in their birth religions, they just had to discover it!

There is a saying in the Jewish mystical writings, that says we do not have to leave our own ‘house’ (religion) to find what we are looking for.
You are so right. The truth is sweet music to my ears wherever I hear it. 🙂
 
The same way the Second Temple was rebuilt…(remember, the Ark became lost after the Babylonians destroyed the FIRST Temple.)

But if you have any other questions, I’m sure these folk can answer them:

templemount.org

Now, some Biblical archaelogists believe the Ark is buried deep under the Dome of the Rock, on the Temple Mount…but the Muslims who occupy it would not allow any excavations to be done.

Here is an article with some more info on the Ark:

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/ark.html
Thank you.

Back to mysticism.
Hope you find a few minutes to look into the life of Francis of Assisi.
 
Thank you.

Back to mysticism.
Hope you find a few minutes to look into the life of Francis of Assisi.
Actually I have read many of the lives and writings of Catholic mystics, as well the lives and writings of many Buddhist, Hindu and Jewish mystics. I believe there are things to learn from all religious paths.
 
Actually I have read many of the lives and writings of Catholic mystics, as well the lives and writings of many Buddhist, Hindu and Jewish mystics. I believe there are things to learn from all religious paths.
Interesting. Mainly how can one learn effectively from all religious paths when they effectively contradict each other?
 
In Judaism, we have a movement similar in some ways to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (except that we do not speak in tongues!) Our movement was developed for those Jews of all branches (Orthodox, Chasidic Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, etc) who wanted to continue attending their usual synagogues, but who felt the need for a more personal, more spiritual way of worshipping. We have weekly prayer meetings and gatherings, which are in addition to the mainstream synagogues we usually go to. The worship is much more lively, personalized, friendly.

I know that in the Catholic church, you have the Charismatic Renewal movement for Catholics who felt the need for a more personal walk with God.

Do other Catholics, who are not in the CCR, feel a need for getting to know God in a personal way, who would like to be able to just sit down and talk to God in prayer as if He were a good friend sitting right next to you, rather than always using prayers written by someone else?

This may be a separate topic, but to me its related: What do most Catholics feel about Catholic mysticism, such as the writings of Thomas Merton? How do people in all mainstream faiths here (Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, etc) feel about the mystical “branches” of your religions?

In the Kabbalah, it says that a Jew does not need to leave his own “home” (religion) to find what he is looking for. This, I would think, would apply to people in all faiths who might be searching for a way to have a deeper walk with their God.
Incarnation, redemption, resurrection, ascention, transsubstantiation - that’s misticism in itself. There’s no mystical “branch” of Catholicism.

There’s nothing wrong in saying prayers written by somebody else.

“What does God require of a man, but that he do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with his God?” - (so what are Jewish 613 commandments for?) there are many other specific God’s requirements like confessing sins, eating the Body of Jesus, etc.

The last passage about Kabbalah is completely ridiculous.
What “their God” do you mean? There’s one true God and many false gods. How and where can a buddist find truth? Definitely not in buddism. Other religions like islam, judaism or hinduism also are not able to teach the (whole) truth about God. The fullness of truth is only in the Catholic Church. God bless.
 
Grace & Peace!

I think what’s important here is to arrive at a mutually acceptable definition of the term “mysticism” and move on from there to understand it in a Christian/Catholic context. It often seems as if Christians (with the notable exception of the Eastern Orthodox churches) seem to eschew it entirely, mistrust it in the extreme, or do not understand it at all.

The goal of Christian mysticism, as is the goal of mysticism in every religion that I know of, is union with God. Someone mentioned this already. And Christianity understands that union as culminating in theosis–divinization. I forget who said it (I believe it was Maximos the Confessor), but this understanding of the goal of grace has been formulated as–What God is by nature, we shall be by grace. Or, as Athanasius wrote (and I paraphrase), “the Divine became Man that Man might become divine.”

Partaking of the Eucharist does indeed mean partaking of Divinity itself by receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ, but the claim that the Church doesn’t need any sort of mysticism because of the nature of the Sacraments, particularly the Eucharist, is not exactly true. The Church’s mysticism is indeed sacramental and focused on the sacraments, but it is more than just participating in the liturgy.

Christianity is unique in that it proclaims its mysteries publicly (sometimes to its own detriment!–recall the disciplina arcani of the ancient church). The liturgy and the sacraments are indeed profound, deeply deeply deeply profound mysteries. But while participation in those mysteries does indeed qualify as a mystical participation, one may consent to all the doctrines of the church concerning the Eucharist, for instance, but it still remains possible to receive Christ only on the tongue and not also on the heart. In such a situation, grace is still given and received (as that is the nature of the sacrament), but one could argue that the disposition of the heart prevents a full reception of the gifts given in the mystery. The grace of a sacrament is not something done to the believer, it is something given by God and received by the believer. And God will not force one to receive what one does not want to receive.

For this reason, a personal discipline of prayer, study, meditation and contemplation (or as the church has classically defined her mystical way–Purification, Illumination, Contemplation/Union) are important to opening the soul to the movement of grace. Rote prayers are fantastic! But mindlessly employed, their usefulness is limited–not because God is not eager to rain on the soul the graces the prayer requests, but because the soul is not disposed to receive them with an equal eagerness. Sacrament and individual devotion, therefore, go hand in hand in conforming the soul to the contours of glory–that is, to Jesus Christ. The Sacraments, however, remain the chief means of grace, the practical focus of Christian mysticism. It is only fitting, therefore, that the keystone of Christian mysticism is grace.

The presence of the sacraments, therefore, do not obviate the need for Christian mysticism–they confirm it–indeed, they are the wellspring of Christian mysticism as they represent (among other things) a constant invitation to a deeper walk with God. It is not enough to receive the Eucharist and call it quits. The Eucharist demands engagement–it demands that one’s entire life, every aspect of it, become Christ. It demands Eucharistic living, such that the transformed believer becomes Eucharist for the world. It demands that we become the Body and Blood ourselves, and that we “do this” not only during the liturgy, but at every moment of our lives. Mere participation is not mysticism, nor is it devotion. Christian Mysticism is indeed the total and radical response to the call of the Eucharist to total and radical transformation–to theosis. It is the journey of grace, by grace, to grace.

Just my two cents, at any rate.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
 
Interesting. Mainly how can one learn effectively from all religious paths when they effectively contradict each other?
Were you aware that you can learn principles from all religions without necessarily agreeing with the religions?
 
Were you aware that you can learn principles from all religions without necessarily agreeing with the religions?
I am aware that one can do that or much of anything else one chooses. The question is why would one want to learn what one does not agree with, with the possible exception of wanting to disprove the disagreed upon issue. Any choice one makes will have consequences, some of which one may not like. One can entertain contradictory teachings for as long as one’s brain will not be overwhelmed from being pulled in different directions simultaneously.
God Bless you.
 
I am aware that one can do that or much of anything else one chooses. The question is why would one want to learn what one does not agree with, with the possible exception of wanting to disprove the disagreed upon issue. Any choice one makes will have consequences, some of which one may not like. One can entertain contradictory teachings for as long as one’s brain will not be overwhelmed from being pulled in different directions simultaneously.
God Bless you.
Well, let me give you an example.

Even though I do not believe in Christianity, I do recognize that I can learn much about the history of my own people from reading the NT.

Assuming what is in the NT is entirely true (it was not developed as a history book, after all), I learn, for example, that although modern Judaism does not proselytize, ancient Judaism must have done so, because Jesus, referring to the Pharisees, says, “You compass sea and land to make one proselyte…” (Matthew 23:15)

I knew that ancient Judaism, at one time, did proselytize, but I thought we stopped before the time of Jesus (there are historical and theological reasons for this, too detailed to go into here.) Yet here Jesus, in the NT, refers to the Pharisees as engaging in missionary activity!

Now, Christians do not believe Judaism to be the true religion, yet they often inquire of Jews (I know I have been inquired of, many times), as to what our religion teaches. Most of the time they do this because they know that learning of our religion, helps them understand their own better. But inquiring about Judaism does not necessarily mean they want to become Jews.

One does not need to believe in a religion to learn something from it.
 
May God Lead you to the fullness of truth in His time.
God Bless you.
 
Now, Christians do not believe Judaism to be the true religion, yet they often inquire of Jews (I know I have been inquired of, many times), as to what our religion teaches. Most of the time they do this because they know that learning of our religion, helps them understand their own better. But inquiring about Judaism does not necessarily mean they want to become Jews.

One does not need to believe in a religion to learn something from it.
“Christians do not believe Judaism to be the true religion”… Hum! I of course can’t speak for the other Christians, but as far as I am concerned, I don’t see Judaism as a false religion, on the contrary; but to me, it’s just a matter of going a step further in the same religion, not leaving one religion to another. We in Christianity, in my view, are in continuity with Judaism, we have so many things in common, even some Jews point out many things where our Catholic customs come from. What the pope and bishops wear, for instance, just like the Jewish kippah (or yarmulkeh)…
 
Without this notion of being a step further, I very probably would be drawn to Judaism myself, since “Salvation is from the Jews” (John 3)
 
Without this notion of being a step further, I very probably would be drawn to Judaism myself, since “Salvation is from the Jews” (John 3)
I’ve often wondered what religion I would be if Judaism did not exist. I thought I’d be a Deist, though I’m not quite sure because I think they believe God created the world, and then left it and us to our own devices, which is not what I believe.

But since the belief in One God, with no partners or separate personalities contained therein, is very central to my belief system, I guess I’d go with them (then again, maybe the only reason that belief is so central is because I’m Jewish!)
 
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