Here is why freemasonry is a christian organization.

[flameburns623]

Balogne,

The goal of freemasonary from its inception was to destroy Christianity. Do you really think that Voltaire was a Christian?

CDL

Voltaire had nothing to do with the ‘goals of Freemasonry’, did not ‘found’ Freemasonry, and was only initiated into what was probably a ‘Grand Orient’ Lodge (a ‘clandestine’ or renegade Masonic Lodge) near the end of his life. I add the latter because French Freemasonry was predominantly of the ‘Grand Orient’ variety, the sort which was disavowed and proscribed by the United Grand Lodges of England. Since Voltaire was an avowed atheist and yet admitted to membership in a French Lodge as an ‘Entered Apprentice’–there is no evidence he was ever raised to the Third Degree of full membership–it can be assumed that he joined a Grand Orient Lodge. An atheist cannot be a member of a true Masonic Lodge because one of the ‘historic landmarks’ of the Order is that one must affirm a belief in God.

This said: Freemasonry is NOT a Christian organization, although one of it’s appendant bodies–the York Rite–is in fact a Christian branch of that fraternity. Freemasonry proper seeks to be non-sedctarian and intereligious in it’s membership, although discussion of religious doctrine (as well as of politics) is strictly forbidden within the Lodge or during official Lodge activities.

 

[flameburns623]

It should be noted that most conservative, Evangelical, or fundamentalist Christian organizations, like the Roman Catholic Church, strictly forbid or at least strongly discourage membership in the Masonic Lodge. These Protestant bodies do so for many of the same reasons that the RCC proscribe Masonry. The following is quoted from Wikipedia:
Wikipedia:

• Many Protestant and Eastern Orthodox denominations have similar prohibitions for their communicants. In the U.S. the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, which have a combined membership of 3 million, and all other major Lutheran denominations warn against lodge affiliation, but not all enforce the ban. The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod bans membership outright. Among the other antilodge churches are the Church of the Brethren, Assemblies of God, Society of Friends (Quakers), Mennonites, Church of the Nazarene, Jehovah’s Witnesses, United Brethren, Wesleyan and Free Methodist churches, and the Seventh-day Adventist Church. General Booth condemned it for the Salvation Army. The National Christian Association was formed in 1874 to coordinate Protestant opposition to secret societies. On a worldwide basis the majority of Christians belong to denominations that absolutely forbid membership in a Masonic lodge or similar secret society. It must be admitted, however, that many of these Protestant condemnations have never been enforced and are dead letters today. Evangelical Lutheran Synod,Church of the Nazarene, Wesleyan Methodist church, Mennonites, The Southern Baptist Convention and North American Mission Board,Lutheran Church in America (for clergy only), Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, Christian Reformed Church in America, Church of the Brethren, Assemblies of God, Society of Friends (Quakers), United Brethren, Free Methodist church, Seventh-day Adventist Church, Salvation Army, Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, Orthodox Church in America, Romanian Orthodox Church, Orthodox Presbyterian Church,Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly, Free Church of Scotland, Baptist Union of Great Britain and Ireland, Presbyterian Church in America, Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland.
  The Church of Scotland does not ban congregants from becoming Freemasons, but in 1989 the general assembly said there were “very real theological difficulties” with Church of Scotland members being Freemasons.
  The 1985Methodist Conference in England said that Freemasonry competed with Christian beliefs, asking that Methodist Freemasons reconsider their membership and that Masonic meetings be banned from Methodist premises. It did not, however, call for a ban on membership.

See the following for the source:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Freemasonry

 

[catharina]

Two of my dear sisters-in-law are born-and-bred Southerners. Both are from Christian families but none of the members are Catholic. None of the members of either family could ever agree to becoming masons, knowing of masonry’s anti-Catholic stance.

 

[HoustonsSon]

Yup and sure enuff. Pretty hard to find black KoC members where it’s VERY hard to find black Catholics at all. Or white Catholics too, for that matter. The South is not known for its welcome of Papists, huh? Or of blacks or Jews either.

Lest I forget to say it, I think that masions might be one of the most dangerous organizations in the western world and I thank God that the group is shrinking every year. IMO, it is divisive, discriminatory and it lives according to a hidden agenda. In no way is it a “Christian” organization. My experience is that Catholic families who have been in this country over many generations know - all too well - the real nature of masonry. The word ‘bigotry’ comes to mind followed by ‘favoritism’ and ‘financial pacts for gain.’

Your comments are both false and offensive.

I hope you’re proud of yourself.

 

[catharina]

Your comments are both false and offensive.

I hope you’re proud of yourself.

I’m sure you meant to say that in YOUR opinion,
you found my comments to be less than satisfactory.

Proud of myself? No. I’m a Catholic and working toward humility. Are you proud of yourself?

 

[flameburns623]

Masonic Bibles are Protestant Bibles only because Catholics may not join the Masonic Lodge and until recently a Catholic who joined the Lodge incurred the penalty of excommunication. Therefore, no Bishop would have given episcopal approval (an ‘Ex Nihilo’ or an ‘Imprimatur’) to a Catholic version of the Masonic Bible and there would have in any case been an insufficient market to support publication of such a thing. A Masonic Bible is of the King James translation only because this is deemed the least-sectarian and most-accepted of English Protestant Bibles.

Masons are NOT given a copy of a Masonic Bible by their Lodge. One is free to buy one on one’s own, from private sources, but it is not something required to have. Nothing in a Masonic Bible is secret nor is any part of it authoritative or binding upon any Mason. Only the Bylaws of the State or National Grand Lodge, the Ritual itself, and certain very ancient historic Masonic documents have any claim to be authoritative. Particularly, no private interpretation thereof is in any sense binding. One is free to speculate on the interpretation of the Ritual, but one’s brother Mason is free to do likewise, and to differ with you on the specifics.

One swears an oath on the religious text or symbol of one’s choice: a Qu’ran if one is Muslim, a copy of the Vedas if Hindu, one’s choice of the Buddhist Sutras if Buddhist, a copy of the Tanach if Jewish. (I think I am correct in saying the word ‘Tanach’ encompasses for Jews what Christians ordinarily term the ‘Old Testament’). There are no ‘Masonic Qu’rans’ for the simple reason that one may not embellish a Qu’ran with non-Islamic symbols nor bind together with the Qu’ran non-Qu’ranic materials. I suspect the same might be true of Jews, at least of Orthodox Jews but they would have to confirm this. I suppose there are Buddhist and Hindu versions of the Masonic Bible–I think I’ve seen photos of the same–but cannot recollect for certain at present.

 

[catharina]

Masonic Bibles are Protestant Bibles only because Catholics may not join the Masonic Lodge and until recently a Catholic who joined the Lodge incurred the penalty of excommunication. Therefore, no Bishop would have given episcopal approval (an ‘Ex Nihilo’ or an ‘Imprimatur’) to a Catholic version of the Masonic Bible and there would have in any case been an insufficient market to support publication of such a thing.

Nowadays, Catholics are still forbidden to join the masons alrhough the ban is tied to grave sin and the refusal of Holy Communion to any Catholic who becomes a mason. This ban stays in effect until the Catholic repents, confesses and breaks away from the masons. Bishops will never approve a masonic publication of the Bible since nothing can be added to or deleted from the Bible. That’s the very reason the KJV is rejected; it omitted certain books of the Bible and so it is not approved by the Catholic Church.

 

[flameburns623]

Nowadays, Catholics are still forbidden to join the masons although the ban is tied to grave sin and the refusal of Holy Communion to any Catholic who becomes a mason. This ban stays in effect until the Catholic repents, confesses and breaks away from the masons. Bishops will never approve a masonic publication of the Bible since nothing can be added to or deleted from the Bible. That’s the very reason the KJV is rejected; it omitted certain books of the Bible and so it is not approved by the Catholic Church.

Catholic ‘study Bibles’ and other sorts of Bibles with extraneous material are approved all of the time. I think if the objectionable elements of Freemasonry were resolved, a Catholic Masonic Bible would not be impossible. But I don’t see any likely movement in that direction. My post was in response to someone in this thread who suggest that Freemasonry ‘must be’ Protestant simply because a ‘Protestant’ (King James Version) Bible with Masonic materials is very extant.

We have been pursuing a very long extended thread already in which the point has been made over-and-over that Catholics may not join the Lodge. At this point we have several Catholics who are reasoning rather more like Protestants in attempting to justify their membership in the Lodge. Meanwhile I, a Protestant, have been arguing more like a Catholic that they need to humble themselves before the authority of their Church and demit from the Lodge. Or else stop identifying as Catholics. It’s been an interesting thread.

Nothing I said here was meant to suggest that Catholics can now join the Lodge. This thread is actually covering much of the same ground as the other thread. I doubt it will be very productive.

 

[HashemEchad]

I was asked to visit this thread to see if the Jewish references were correct. Have not seen them, yet, still looking (don’t really have the time to read this entire thread!)

I do not know much about Freemasonry, but I do know that Freemasonry is more or less Deist, as opposed to strictly Christian or Jewish.

I know the Catholic church forbids their members from becoming Masons; the reason always given to me was because it is a secret society, and Jesus said in the NT “in secret I have said nothing” (which I guess means Christians cannot join such groups.)

Again, this is one area I’m not well-versed in, I’m only stating what I have read.

 

[ralphinal]

Catholic ‘study Bibles’ and other sorts of Bibles with extraneous material are approved all of the time. I think if the objectionable elements of Freemasonry were resolved, a Catholic Masonic Bible would not be impossible. But I don’t see any likely movement in that direction. My post was in response to someone in this thread who suggest that Freemasonry ‘must be’ Protestant simply because a ‘Protestant’ (King James Version) Bible with Masonic materials is very extant.

We have been pursuing a very long extended thread already in which the point has been made over-and-over that Catholics may not join the Lodge. At this point we have several Catholics who are reasoning rather more like Protestants in attempting to justify their membership in the Lodge. Meanwhile I, a Protestant, have been arguing more like a Catholic that they need to humble themselves before the authority of their Church and demit from the Lodge. Or else stop identifying as Catholics. It’s been an interesting thread.

Nothing I said here was meant to suggest that Catholics can now join the Lodge. This thread is actually covering much of the same ground as the other thread. I doubt it will be very productive.

I was a little involved in that thread. I saw exactly what you did. Some people were reaching to justify.

I might have been one of the people who gave the impression that I saw freemasonry as protestant. I did not mean to. I know better and have argued as much on other threads.

The OP stated that they only used KJV Bibles, and that got me cranked up. It turns out that he was speaking about his lodge alone, not the Masons in general.

 

[Spiller]

Well we as masons have no qualms about Catholics being masons. **A few members of our lodge are Catholics. **

As far as your comment about any denomination supporting the King James Version is anti-catholic, well then that would include a great amount of denominations.

Including lutheran, presbyterian, evangelical, and many fundamentalists. Who appears to be against bringing denominations together? It certainly is not the masons, we openly accept any child of Christ with equal love. We are all children of Christ and all deserve to be loved.

If they are, they are in a perpetual state of mortal sin and are not allowed to receive holy communion. Frankly I could care less what the masons think – I only care what God and His Church thinks:

Quaesitum Est is a declaration by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith forbidding Catholics from joining Masonic organizations. If they do so, they are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. It was issued in 1983 by the prefect of the congregation, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, who became Pope Benedict XVI on April 19, 2005.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaesitum_est

 

[whiteknite]

Freemasonry explicitly and openly states that it is neither a religion nor a substitute for one.
“There is no separate Masonic God”, nor a separate proper name for a deity in any branch of Freemasonry.

Regular Freemasonry requires that its candidates believe in a Supreme Being, but the interpretation of the term is subject to the conscience of the candidate.
This means that men from a wide range of faiths, including (but not limited to) Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism, etc. can and have become Masons.

Freemasonry in Scandinavia, known as the Swedish Rite, on the other hand, accepts only Christians.
In addition, some appendant bodies (or portions thereof) may have religious requirements.
These have no bearing, however, on what occurs at the lodge level.

 

[angelusm]

Maybe some protestants are allowed to be masons (satanists in fact), Catholics are not allowed. There’s one thing in common for both masons and protestants and it’s haterd against the CC. That’s they cooperated during Mexican revolution to destroy the CC and probably on other occasions as well.

 

[HollyDolly]

While know expert on the masons,I do know there are
Catholics who join the Masons. Some do it because they don’t know the history of the group,others do it becuase they figure by being a mason,no matter what degree, they will be promoted and get ahead if their boss is also a mason,just like some guy taking up golf because the boss plays it and plays the game with the boss to get ahead,or the woman who sleeps with her husband’s boss to get the guy a promotion.

There there are others,like the italian lodge to which several key figures in the Vatican bank scandal of the late 1980s-1990s belonged to do it for power and money.
It is not just that the masonic leaders are against the political power of the Church,but it is also a religion as well.Something which the ordinary member may be totally unaware of,and is only known to the most trusted members,regardless of degree.
Members whom the leaders feel can be trusted and are carefully recuited. You can look on the web for the writings of Albert Pike
a high leader in the Masons and see some of his comments
and writings.
It is a religion regardless of what any members may claim.

 

[ralphinal]

The California Court of Appeals agrees that it is a religion. Google it, or pull the links that i put on other posts about it.

 

[flameburns623]

The California Court of Appeals agrees that it is a religion. Google it, or pull the links that i put on other posts about it.

This is getting a bit overworked. A Masonic Lodge in California wanted protection from a local city government, which was seeking to infringe on the property rights of the Lodge in question. The courts did NOT rule that the Lodge in question is actually a religion–in fact the court recognized that Freemasonry does NOT define itself as a religion. However, with repsect to property rights, the Lodge in question is entitled to the same protections as a religious organization.

I don’t feel the Lodge in question should have used this particular legal shelter to defend it’s property rights. Freemasonry has spent decades, even centuries, trying to establish that it is not a religilus organization. A tactic of this nature only muddies the waters.

On the other hand, the courts have only found what a number of Christian religious organizations have felt and what I have argued can be reasonably deduced from a number of elelments in the Masonic Ritual. That is, the Ritual does have elements within it which cross the lines between ethics, philosophy, and religion. As a result–despite the desire of the Lodge to be a sort of extra-religious organization, a fraternity which complements but does not contradict members’ religious values–the Masonic Ritual does have religious implications, about which some religious proponents may have reasonable objections.

 

[ralphinal]

This is getting a bit overworked. A Masonic Lodge in California wanted protection from a local city government, which was seeking to infringe on the property rights of the Lodge in question. The courts did NOT rule that the Lodge in question is actually a religion–in fact the court recognized that Freemasonry does NOT define itself as a religion. However, with repsect to property rights, the Lodge in question is entitled to the same protections as a religious organization.

I don’t feel the Lodge in question should have used this particular legal shelter to defend it’s property rights. Freemasonry has spent decades, even centuries, trying to establish that it is not a religilus organization. A tactic of this nature only muddies the waters.

On the other hand, the courts have only found what a number of Christian religious organizations have felt and what I have argued can be reasonably deduced from a number of elelments in the Masonic Ritual. That is, the Ritual does have elements within it which cross the lines between ethics, philosophy, and religion. As a result–despite the desire of the Lodge to be a sort of extra-religious organization, a fraternity which complements but does not contradict members’ religious values–the Masonic Ritual does have religious implications, about which some religious proponents may have reasonable objections.

Excellent post. Can you tell me why this lodge used this tactic? Afterall, property rights exist for all landowners anyway.

 

[Scottgun]

Maybe some protestants are allowed to be masons (satanists in fact), Catholics are not allowed. There’s one thing in common for both masons and protestants and it’s haterd against the CC. That’s they cooperated during Mexican revolution to destroy the CC and probably on other occasions as well.

Yes, it doesn’t matter one whit even if the Catholic Church is way off base about the Masons. Either the Church has the authority to bind the faithful or it doesn’t. Are Catholics considering joing the masons given any warning by them that the Catholic is violating Church law? If not, it’s dirty pool plain and simple.

 

[ralphinal]

Yes, it doesn’t matter one whit even if the Catholic Church is way off base about the Masons. Either the Church has the authority to bind the faithful or it doesn’t. Are Catholics considering joing the masons given any warning by them that the Catholic is violating Church law? If not, it’s dirty pool plain and simple.

You mean the Masons should warn the Catholics? Not gonna happen because they may have ot explain why the Church feels the way they do. Do you mean the Church should do a better job telling its members not to join? When Masonry was on the rise, it did. Today, there is not much need. Either way, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 

[LDNCatholic]

There is a Masonic Bible in my house (my grandfather, now since passed, became a member in 1970). Leafing through it today I found, after the 50 page history of the Masons (skewed and biased and grossly innacurate) I came across the intro page to the Bible, invoking help against Popish people.

The Freemasons are anti Catholic and Catholics are forbidden from joining their ranks. Simple as that.

P.S if anyone (Catholic not Freemason please) knows if I should dispose of this Bible, and if so how, please PM me.