Here is why freemasonry is a christian organization.

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Am I understanding this right…Anyone can join the masons as long as they believe in a higher power…the G.A.O.T.U.

And they have the option of believing as they wish as to whom this G.A.O.T.U. is? Right?

What IF a member says yes he believes in a higher power and he is religious, then he can join, right.? right… and…

What if the higher power to him is lucifer? Would he still be able to be a member…By your definitions I would say that he would!!!

Could he put his satanist “bible” along side of the KJV? Putting them as equals… And all members joining together in a fraternal group of goodly men. HUMMMMMM:(
 
Am I understanding this right…Anyone can join the masons as long as they believe in a higher power…the G.A.O.T.U.

What IF a member says yes he believes in a higher power and he is religious, then he can join, right.? right… and…😦
UK & US maonry is quite specific in saying that if duty towards masonry are ever in conflict with duty towards Almighty God then duty to Almighty God MUST come first. 🙂
Could he put his satanist “bible” along side of the KJV? Putting them as equals… And all members joining together in a fraternal group of goodly men. HUMMMMMM
I turn the question around: what happens if a Christian puts their satanist bible alongsideof teh KJV? Putting them as equals…
What if the higher power to him is lucifer? Would he still be able to be a member…By your definitions I would say that he would!!!
If anyone can possibly conceive of Almighty God as lucifer, then they are in serious trouble don’t you think? 😛

Blessings and peace
 
Am I understanding this right…Anyone can join the masons as long as they believe in a higher power…the G.A.O.T.U.

And they have the option of believing as they wish as to whom this G.A.O.T.U. is? Right?

What IF a member says yes he believes in a higher power and he is religious, then he can join, right.? right… and…

What if the higher power to him is Lucifer? Would he still be able to be a member…By your definitions I would say that he would!!!

Could he put his satanist “bible” along side of the KJV? Putting them as equals… And all members joining together in a fraternal group of goodly men. HUMMMMMM:(
First off: although the initials ‘GAOTU’ pop up periodically in Masonic or quasi-Masonic literature, and although the phrase those letters stand for–"Great Architect Of The Universe’–appears in one or two of the Rituals of Freemasonry, there is actually a great deal more emphasis placed on the use of ‘GAOTU’ among anti-Masons than among Freemasons themselves. Most Masons refer to God simply as ‘God’. In some Masonic literature they spell this, ‘G-d’, out of respect for the sensibilities of Jewish Freemasons. (Keep in mind I am referring here to English-speaking Masonic Lodges, where there can be a significant representation of persons of Jewish extraction and faith in some areas).

It is important to realise that Freemasonry has no specific name for God, and that ‘GAOTU’ was coined with the intent of being inclusive of the concepts of Deity known to those who formalized the Ritual. It was not meant as an exclusive Masonic name for God.

Could a Satanist become a Freemason? Yes, in theory, if he could affirm that he believed in one Deity. In practice such a person would probably be blackballed (excluded from membership by a vote of the membership of the Lodge, in a process that literally uses black balls to signify a negative vote. In most Lodges of which I am aware, even a single black ball excludes a candidate from the Lodge). One can be blackballed by any member who has certain knowledge that the candidate is somehow deficient in character and therefore unsuited for membership in the Lodge. An out-and-out Satanist would disdain the ethical principles of the Lodge, not to mention of society in general, and so would be readily identified as one whose character was deficient to be admitted to membership in most Lodges.

But let us assume the Satanist candidate is NOT blackballed. Could a Satanist have his book of Scripture placed on the Masonic Altar while swearing his Masonic oaths? Yes, in theory. However in practice: Satanists don’t actually have a scripture. Anton LaVey’s Satanic Bible is not usually considered anything more than one man’s personal interpretation of Satanism, and is not generally authoritative. The Necronomicon is a work of fiction which equally lacks authority among most who style themselves Satanists.

Most importantly: most Satanists would not WANT to join a Masonic Lodge. It would have no attraction for them. It’s imagery, drawn so frequently from the Bible, and it’s ethics, based so clearly on the Mosaic code, would be repellent to most of them. Most Satanists are libertarian, relativistic, and often proponents of some sort of philosophical anarchism. Freemasonry represents the antithesis of that. In practice therefore, the issue would very rarely arise.

What has come up to my knowledge is that some Wiccans or other Pagans have joined various Lodges. Usually such candidates use their Book of Rede or whatever else constitutes a code of ethos or body of Scripture for them. If one can swear an oath on an altar upon which others have sworn similar oaths using the Qu’ran, the Upanishads, or the Lotus Sutra, I don’t see what objection one would have to Wiccans or Pagans.

If however one feels that all of this raises the red flag of syncretism or indifferentism–then one is simply discovering anew one of the objections that I have warned is at the heart of why so many Christian denominations (not merely Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy) have problems with Freemasonry.
 
The many replies here suggests that freemsonry is at risk of ‘leading Catholics astray to false religion’. The evidence that I have seen however is quite the opposite.

I have never heard of a Catholic who stops practicing because he is a free and accepted mason. But I HAVE heard of lapsed Catholics ‘coming home’ because they have enrolled as masons.
👍

In other words: men who did not walk with the Lord, take up their faith again, go to confession and re-dedicate their lives to Christ and His Church only because they felt encouraged by masonry to do so! 🙂

Suddenly I have become invisible. 😛

None of the hardliners will see this reply because it is not what they want to read. No, they do not want to read that. They want to read of ‘blood oaths and satanic ritual!’ 😃
Your post is illogical in the extreme. Roman Catholics are forbidden to join the masons under pain of mortal sin and the loss of the right to receive Holy Communion. One cannot be a mason and become “more united” with the faith of the Church since, as a mason, one is forbidden to participate in the life-giving Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. That some Catholics have joined the masons is beyond a doubt, according to their own statements. That they can do so and remain faithful Catholics is an outright lie. The matter is not up for debate.
 
Definitive teaching:

vatican.va/roman_curia/co…ticolo_en.html

Precisely by considering all these elements, the Declaration of the Sacred Congregation affirms that membership in Masonic associations «remains forbidden by the Church», and the faithful who enrolls in them «are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion».

With this last statement, the Sacred Congregation points out to the faithful that this membership objectively constitutes a grave sin and by specifying that the members of a Masonic association may not receive Holy Communion, it intends to enlighten the conscience of the faithful about a grave consequence which must derive from their belonging to a Masonic lodge.

Finally, the Sacred Congregation declares that «it is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above». In this regard, the text also refers to the Declaration of 17 February 1981, which already reserved to the Apostolic See all pronouncements on the nature of these associations which may have implied derogations from the Canon Law then in force (Can. 2335). In the same way, the new document issued by the S.C.D.F. in November 1983 expresses identical intentions of reserve concerning pronouncements which would differ from the judgment expressed here on the irreconcilability of Masonic principles with the Catholic faith, on the gravity of the act of joining a lodge and on the consequences which arise from it for receiving Holy Communion. This disposition points out that, despite the diversity which may exist among Masonic obediences, in particular in their declared attitude towards the Church, the Apostolic See discerns some common principles in them which require the same evaluation by all ecclesiastical authorities.
 
UK & US maonry is quite specific in saying that if duty towards masonry are ever in conflict with duty towards Almighty God then duty to Almighty God MUST come first. 🙂

I turn the question around: what happens if a Christian puts their satanist bible alongsideof teh KJV? Putting them as equals…

If anyone can possibly conceive of Almighty God as lucifer, then they are in serious trouble don’t you think? 😛

Blessings and peace
But Satanist DO consider Satan as THEIR God…pitiful, yes, but it does exist.🤷
 
Your post is illogical in the extreme. Roman Catholics are forbidden to join the masons under pain of mortal sin and the loss of the right to receive Holy Communion. One cannot be a mason and become “more united” with the faith of the Church since, as a mason, one is forbidden to participate in the life-giving Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. That some Catholics have joined the masons is beyond a doubt, according to their own statements. That they can do so and remain faithful Catholics is an outright lie. The matter is not up for debate.
Thank you for the courtesy of a reply. I must admit I did not expect any of the hard-liners to do so! :o

Ultimately if a mason [like anyone else] can justify their actions with their consciences then that is a matter between them and Almighty God. It is as far as I can see ‘not for the rest of us to judge!’

By the way, I am one of those ‘Roman’ Catholics of whom you speak and I am not offended by being called by sectarian name, but know lots of Catholics who would be 🙂

In respect of what others do or do not do in their private lives, I am too busy counting my OWN sins to worry to much about the sins of others. I am truthfully fearful of Mt 7: 1-2

However, I find no objections to masonry. It supports and encourages Christians to uphold their Christian principles, while there are an almost infinite number of groups out there which a Catholic may join but which hold Catholicism in total contempt and total disregard.

I personally would rather a group who are with me than one who are against. 🙂

Blessings and peace.
 
Thank you for the courtesy of a reply. I must admit I did not expect any of the hard-liners to do so! :o

Ultimately if a mason [like anyone else] can justify their actions with their consciences then that is a matter between them and Almighty God. It is as far as I can see ‘not for the rest of us to judge!’

By the way, I am one of those ‘Roman’ Catholics of whom you speak and I am not offended by being called by sectarian name, but know lots of Catholics who would be 🙂

In respect of what others do or do not do in their private lives, I am too busy counting my OWN sins to worry to much about the sins of others. I am truthfully fearful of Mt 7: 1-2

However, I find no objections to masonry. It supports and encourages Christians to uphold their Christian principles, while there are an almost infinite number of groups out there which a Catholic may join but which hold Catholicism in total contempt and total disregard.

I personally would rather a group who are with me than one who are against. 🙂

Blessings and peace.
Wow, a thank you tied to an insult? Hard-liner? I’ve never been called one before now but I don’t think you intend it as a compliment. Simply put, I’m a faithful and observant Roman Catholic. Church teaching has never changed about the undesirability of joining the masons. It’s an absolute no-brainer, IMO. Now, instead of seeking the lifting of excommuincation, a RC who has dipped himself in masonry need only make a good confession about the fact - along with a firm resolve to avoid the sin in the future. The Church is teaching nothing new about masonry. Its stance is: do not join the masons, same as always.

As to conscience, we are called to conform our consciences according to Church Teaching. It’s that simple. To anyone disagreeing with that stance, I say “he’s wrong.” While it might be very charitable of you to take a pass in judging Catholics who disagree with this teaching of the Church (‘membership in masons is forbidden’), you are not free to conclude they are acting in good conscience. You can say you’ve no idea how they are justifying such behavior (true) but you can’t give approval to your fantasized notion of their consciences.

Hope you’ll be supporting that “almost infinite number of groups” you’ve alleged with a list of them? Yes, no, maybe?

I have no idea what you mean by this: “By the way, I am one of those ‘Roman’ Catholics of whom you speak and I am not offended by being called by sectarian name, but know lots of Catholics who would be.”

Zip, zero, none.
 
Wow, a thank you tied to an insult? Hard-liner? I’ve never been called one before now but I don’t think you intend it as a compliment. Simply put, I’m a faithful and observant Roman Catholic. Church teaching has never changed about the undesirability of joining the masons. It’s an absolute no-brainer, IMO. Now, instead of seeking the lifting of excommuincation, a RC who has dipped himself in masonry need only make a good confession about the fact - along with a firm resolve to avoid the sin in the future. The Church is teaching nothing new about masonry. Its stance is: do not join the masons, same as always.

As to conscience, we are called to conform our consciences according to Church Teaching. It’s that simple. To anyone disagreeing with that stance, I say “he’s wrong.” While it might be very charitable of you to take a pass in judging Catholics who disagree with this teaching of the Church (‘membership in masons is forbidden’), you are not free to conclude they are acting in good conscience. You can say you’ve no idea how they are justifying such behavior (true) but you can’t give approval to your fantasized notion of their consciences.

Hope you’ll be supporting that “almost infinite number of groups” you’ve alleged with a list of them? Yes, no, maybe?

I have no idea what you mean by this: “By the way, I am one of those ‘Roman’ Catholics of whom you speak and I am not offended by being called by sectarian name, but know lots of Catholics who would be.”

Zip, zero, none.
Please accept my most sincere apologies. Most fundamental Catholics in my experience are proud to be thought of as ‘non-negotiable hardliners’. I am very sorry if that offended you.

IN my part of the world ‘Roman’ Catholic is reserved for those intending the worst of insults.

Blesssings and peace
 
IN my part of the world ‘Roman’ Catholic is reserved for those intending the worst of insults.
Why this would be consodered an insult is beyond me.

I guess I’m glad I don’t live in your part of the world.
 
We know that the Church is against Freemasonry.

The new thread is titled:
Why is the Roman Catholic Church against Freemasonry?
and will focus more on the reasons behind the decision.
The reason to abandon your membership is this simple: so you’ll be free once more to receive Holy Communion, after making a good confession. I don’t think very many Catholics expect that “the Church” will invite them in for a sit-down to explain the history and reasons for a teaching. Wouldn’t the usual course of affairs be one of humble obedience, to drop your membership and then “ask questions” if you feel you must do so?
Code:
Encylclical "IN EMINENTI"

ON FREEMASONRY

PAPAL BULL OF POPE CLEMENT XII

April 28, 1738


CLEMENT, BISHOP, Servant of the Servants of God to all the faithful, Salutation, and Apostolic Benediction.

Since the divine clemency has placed Us, Whose merits are not equal to the task, in the high watch-tower of the Apostolate with the duty of pastoral care confided to Us, We have turned Our attention, as far as it has been granted Us from on high, with unceasing care to those things through which the integrity of Orthodox Religion is kept from errors and vices by preventing their entry, and by which the dangers of disturbance in the most troubled times are repelled from the whole Catholic World.

Now it has come to Our ears, and common gossip has made clear, that certain Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles called in the popular tongue Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons or by other names according to the various languages, are spreading far and wide and daily growing in strength; and men of any Religion or sect, satisfied with the appearance of natural probity, are joined together, according to their laws and the statutes laid down for them, by a strict and unbreakable bond which obliges them, both by an oath upon the Holy Bible and by a host of grievous punishment, to an inviolable silence about all that they do in secret together. But it is in the nature of crime to betray itself and to show itself by its attendant clamor. Thus these aforesaid Societies or Conventicles have caused in the minds of the faithful the greatest suspicion, and all prudent and upright men have passed the same judgment on them as being depraved and perverted. For if they were not doing evil they would not have so great a hatred of the light. Indeed, this rumor has grown to such proportions that in several countries these societies have been forbidden by the civil authorities as being against the public security, and for some time past have appeared to be prudently eliminated.

Therefore, bearing in mind the great harm which is often caused by such Societies or Conventicles not only to the peace of the temporal state but also to the well-being of souls, and realizing that they do not hold by either civil or canonical sanctions; and since We are taught by the divine word that it is the part of faithful servant and of the master of the Lord's household to watch day and night lest such men as these break into the household like thieves, and like foxes seek to destroy the vineyard; in fact, to prevent the hearts of the simple being perverted, and the innocent secretly wounded by their arrows, and to block that broad road which could be opened to the uncorrected commission of sin and for the other just and reasonable motives known to Us; We therefore, having taken counsel of some of Our Venerable Brothers among the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, and also of Our own accord and with certain knowledge and mature deliberations, with the plenitude of the Apostolic power do hereby determine and have decreed that these same Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations, or Conventicles of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or whatever other name they may go by, are to be condemned and prohibited, and by Our present Constitution, valid for ever, We do condemn and prohibit them.

Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state, grade, condition, order, dignity or pre-eminence, whether clerical or lay, secular or regular, even those who are entitled to specific and individual mention, that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume to enter, propagate or support these aforesaid societies of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or however else they are called, or to receive them in their houses or dwellings or to hide them, be enrolled among them, joined to them, be present with them, give power or permission for them to meet elsewhere, to help them in any way, to give them in any way advice, encouragement or support either openly or in secret, directly or indirectly, on their own or through others; nor are they to urge others or tell them, incite or persuade them to be enrolled in such societies or to be counted among their number, or to be present or to assist them in any way; but they must stay completely clear of such Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles, under pain of excommunication for all the above mentioned people, which is incurred by the very deed without any declaration being required, and from which no one can obtain the benefit of absolution, other than at the hour of death, except through Ourselves or the Roman Pontiff of the time.

Moreover, We desire and command that both Bishops and prelates, and other local ordinaries, as well as inquisitors for heresy, shall investigate and proceed against transgressors of whatever state, grade, condition, order dignity or pre-eminence they may be; and they are to pursue and punish them with condign penalties as being most suspect of heresy. To each and all of these We give and grant the free faculty of calling upon the aid of the secular arm, should the need arise, for investigating and proceeding against those same transgressors and for pursuing and punishing them with condign penalties.

Given at Rome, at Saint Mary Mayor, in the year 1738 of Our Lord.


Link 

[papalencyclicals.net/Clem12/c15inemengl.htm](http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Clem12/c15inemengl.htm)
 
As I sit here, I must make a confession to all of you. IN my home state of Alabama, we have a history of bad, no, horrible political leadership. Very, very bad. 50 years ago, Birmingham was the largest city in the Southeast. We passed on Ford, Boing, Delta, Budwiser, and other industries. We choose to put all of our eggs in the basket of US Steel. They closed, Atlanta took most of these companies, and now we are small and they are a major player. Not to mention all of the Civil Rights issues that we had, both locally and state-wide. Since we became a state, we have been governed by morons, goof-balls, bigots, and other assorted ne’er-do-wells. They have all had one thing in common: they were almost all FreeMasons.

Perhaps that is part of my issue. When George Wallace stood in the steps to proclaim segregation, he was a Mason. When Bull Connor attacked black children with dogs and hoses, he was a Mason. When the 16th Street Baptist Church was blown up, the suspects were Masons. The idiots who crippled Birmingham over the last 110 years were almost all MAsons (the white ones, anyway). In Alabama, a good number of Masons are in the KKK. I am not sure about the years 1819-1900, but I bet it is not much different.

I guess that I have issues partially because of what my Church says and partially because I have seen almost none of the positive Masonic influence in my state.

I am sorry if my bias is affecting my ability to discuss it. I just thought I should say something.
 
As I sit here, I must make a confession to all of you. IN my home state of Alabama, we have a history of bad, no, horrible political leadership. Very, very bad. 50 years ago, Birmingham was the largest city in the Southeast. We passed on Ford, Boing, Delta, Budwiser, and other industries. We choose to put all of our eggs in the basket of US Steel. They closed, Atlanta took most of these companies, and now we are small and they are a major player. Not to mention all of the Civil Rights issues that we had, both locally and state-wide. Since we became a state, we have been governed by morons, goof-balls, bigots, and other assorted ne’er-do-wells. They have all had one thing in common: they were almost all FreeMasons.

Perhaps that is part of my issue. When George Wallace stood in the steps to proclaim segregation, he was a Mason. When Bull Connor attacked black children with dogs and hoses, he was a Mason. When the 16th Street Baptist Church was blown up, the suspects were Masons. The idiots who crippled Birmingham over the last 110 years were almost all MAsons (the white ones, anyway). In Alabama, a good number of Masons are in the KKK. I am not sure about the years 1819-1900, but I bet it is not much different.

I guess that I have issues partially because of what my Church says and partially because I have seen almost none of the positive Masonic influence in my state.

I am sorry if my bias is affecting my ability to discuss it. I just thought I should say something.
I have no problems with the Church saying Catholics may not be Freemasons but I DO worry about some of the outlandish prejudicial and discriminatory claims about freemasonry.

Unless you have been in a lodge and seen for yourself what it is all about from the inside then I am afraid your critque is at best second-hand information and at worst anti-Catholic in being discriminate and bigoted.

Freemasonry is no more anti-Chistian than golf football or baseball! I wonder how often sportsmen stop to pray before, during and after a game?

Our local football team is run and owned by a good practicing English Catholic woman of international reputation. She is a daily Mass attender and rekown for her spirituality. She is also lesser known for her great charitable works and support of the Church. The local Church is much richer for her presence. But even she does not have a picture depicting Christ and His acention into Heaven in the main foyer of the football club.

Blessings and peace
 
I have no problems with the Church saying Catholics may not be Freemasons but I DO worry about some of the outlandish prejudicial and discriminatory claims about freemasonry.

Unless you have been in a lodge and seen for yourself what it is all about from the inside then I am afraid your critque is at best second-hand information and at worst anti-Catholic in being discriminate and bigoted.

Freemasonry is no more anti-Chistian than golf football or baseball! I wonder how often sportsmen stop to pray before, during and after a game?

Our local football team is run and owned by a good practicing English Catholic woman of international reputation. She is a daily Mass attender and rekown for her spirituality. She is also lesser known for her great charitable works and support of the Church. The local Church is much richer for her presence. But even she does not have a picture depicting Christ and His acention into Heaven in the main foyer of the football club.

Blessings and peace
I’m unfamiliar with this religion. What is it?
Perhaps you meant to say something else?
 
I’m unfamiliar with this religion. What is it?
Perhaps you meant to say something else?
I was once told that when your critics correct you on your collocation it is then that you know you have won the arguement.🙂

Good- English Practising- Catholic. 😉

Blessings and peace
 
I was once told that when your critics correct you on your collocation it is then that you know you have won the arguement.🙂

Good- English Practising- Catholic. 😉

Blessings and peace
I haven’t corrected you on this and I’m still waiting for your answer. What is an English Catholic?

You are what you are. There is no argument regarding that.
 
I haven’t corrected you on this and I’m still waiting for your answer. What is an English Catholic?

You are what you are. There is no argument regarding that.
A member of the Church whose cultural identity language and place of residence is England 🙂

Said person is of Irish origin. 🙂 🙂

Of course in reality we know a Catholic is neither English, Roman or any other place-name seeings one cannot use an adjective to qualify an adjective. 😛

Blessings and peace
 
A member of the Church whose cultural identity language and place of residence is England 🙂

Said person is of Irish origin. 🙂 🙂

Of course in reality we know a Catholic is neither English, Roman or any other place-name seeings one cannot use an adjective to qualify an adjective. 😛

Blessings and peace
Oh. Thank you.

(Catholic is also used as a noun.)
 
Oh. Thank you.

(Catholic is also used as a noun.)
I have never come across ‘Catholic’ used as a noun. I am not saying it never has been, only that I have never come across it. 😉

Blessings and peace
 
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