Heresies

[wisdomseeker]

So you’re saying either I’m obligated to fill in every gap in knowledge, unknown to even the worlds greatest scientists, or I must believe in an ancient story of a god-man who was born of a virgin impregnated by a spirit who knowingly offered himself up in a vicarious ritualistic blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of billions of future people (and if I just believe in that fantastic story my slate will wiped clean, any poor behavior excused, and I’ll get to live on happily ever after in a magical paradise, while all who don’t believe this story will roast in an eternal hell, or something like that)?

There’s a reason why my screen-name is bridgeforsale

So, how long do you think you will be here on Earth?

 

[SHW]

There’s even more remarkable facts to make your case better. How about this one. Do you know why it’s not always daylight? Since we live in a universe surrounded by stars, and the universe is about 14 billion years old, and considering the speed of light, our surrounding stars should have inundated earth with constant light; right from the beginning of our planets existence … but it doesn’t?

The reason is the inflation of the universe … e.g. our universe is expanding faster than the speed of light.

But the thing is you can tie up all these remarkable facts into a nice bundle and create a compelling case. However, you have to wonder whether night is really required for life. Sure, we need a sleep cycle, and night facilitates it. But life could survive if it were always daylight (and I would think we would have been acclemated to it by natural selection).

As for the other stuff, yes the earth is fine tuned for life. You would have to say the chances of something like earth existing must be something like one in a trillion, or one in several trillion. But, in fact, if you look around the universe there’s upwards of 500 billion galaxies, and who can imagine how many planets and stars within those galaxies. It stands to reason maybe we’re the one in a trillion because in fact we’re the one in a trillion.

Romans 2:14-16
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Romans 1:20-22
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

Persons will have absolutely no excuse on Judgment Day.

Yes, I do know why it is not always daylight. It is because when God planned the universe for mankind, He knew what mankind would need in order to flourish and so He supplied it for them. He had eternity to do it in and this fact was also included in His plan. He decided to work His plan over a long period of earth time. He lives in eternity, why not invent time and enjoy His creation to the fullest? The results are the same.

 

[bridgeforsale]

Persons will have absolutely no excuse on Judgment Day.

Oh no!

That was scary, I better run and become a Catholic right away

 

[Teneas]

Oh no!

That was scary, I better run and become a Catholic right away

Have you ever actually stated why you are here on these forums?

 

[bridgeforsale]

Have you ever actually stated why you are here on these forums?

Nope

 

[Teneas]

Nope

LOL would you like to? It’s nice to know why others are here, and while I am glad you are here, I do remember your blatant posts to simply stir up trouble. Such as “I take the Eucharist anytime I attend Catholic Mass, cause let’s face it, I can’t take a egg mcmuffin in there”

Basically, I want to know if you are the first person I hit the ignore button on. I haven’t used it yet, and hoped to never use it, but I can’t take the negative, blatant, button pushing without having anymore reason beyond just to annoy and get your kicks off it.

Please tell me you are not here for that.

 

[bridgeforsale]

LOL would you like to?

He he … couldn’t resist. But ahh, yeah I mostly like the brain tease talking about the philosophy behind theism (and trying my luck at the arguments).

It’s nice to know why others are here, and while I am glad you are here, I do remember your blatant posts to simply stir up trouble.

I do love to stir up trouble

Such as “I take the Eucharist anytime I attend Catholic Mass, cause let’s face it, I can’t take a egg mcmuffin in there”

It would be rude to take an egg mcmuffin into mass though wouldn’t it

Basically, I want to know if you are the first person I hit the ignore button on. I haven’t used it yet, and hoped to never use it, but I can’t take the negative, blatant, button pushing without having anymore reason beyond just to annoy and get your kicks off it.

Please tell me you are not here for that.

Well, notice I don’t punch on these threads often (I like the deep philosophy threads better, you know like cosmological arguments, the metaphysics behind religion, and that type of thing). But I get it, I’ll play nicer in these sort of forums

 

[Teneas]

He he … couldn’t resist. But ahh, yeah I mostly like the brain tease talking about the philosophy behind theism (and trying my luck at the arguments).

I do love to stir up trouble

It would be rude to take an egg mcmuffin into mass though wouldn’t it

Well, notice I don’t punch on these threads often (I like the deep philosophy threads better, you know like cosmological arguments, the metaphysics behind religion, and that type of thing). But I get it, I’ll play nicer in these sort of forums

I won’t hit ignore on ya. God bless, or mcmuffin bless

 

[bridgeforsale]

So, how long do you think you will be here on Earth?

I get your point, mortality stinks (I won’t argue with you there). I guess the best we can do is try to live memorable and good lives, so just in case our future offspring builds a time machine, they might find us interesting enough to retrieve from the past

Sure we can invent stories and try really hard to believe it … but I guess that just doesn’t make sense to me (plus it just hasn’t been able to work for me, in other words, and I hate to put this way, but IMHO religion is too far fetched to warrant any serious consideration; although I did give it my best shot for many years). I will say though I don’t discount the possibility of a reality beyond our apprehension (or a consciousness apart from our selves). There is some stuff out there that even throws me for a loop (but I also think the better view is that none of it is true, and to put it bluntly; this is all she wrote).

What else can I say?

 

[SHW]

Oh no!

That was scary, I better run and become a Catholic right away

Please show me where I stated that you must become a Catholic?

What I said was: Persons will have absolutely no excuse on Judgment Day.

We are but dust. (stardust perhaps ) We cannot even take a breath without it being God’s will that we take a breath.

God searches every person’s heart and judges accordingly.

His Word states:

1 Chronicles 28:9
As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power

Free will. It is best to use it wisely.

 

[bridgeforsale]

Please show me where I stated that you must become a Catholic?

What I said was: Persons will have absolutely no excuse on Judgment Day.

We are but dust. (stardust perhaps ) We cannot even take a breath without it being God’s will that we take a breath.

God searches every person’s heart and judges accordingly.

His Word states:

1 Chronicles 28:9
As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power

Free will. It is best to use it wisely.

I’m sufficiently familiar with the bible, so you don’t have to keep punching out verses (you can if you want to, but I can assure you the bible is the last thing that would convince me to turn back towards religiosity). The thing is I don’t believe a god talked to guys like Moses, or raised Jesus from the dead, or whatever. I don’t mind thinking god exists (and that perhaps we have a soul). But as for me personally I’m convinced the bible (or no other holy book for that matter) represents god (but of course to each his own)

 

[SHW]

I’m sufficiently familiar with the bible, so you don’t have to keep punching out verses (you can if you want to, but I can assure you the bible is the last thing that would convince me to turn back towards religiosity). The thing is I don’t believe a god talked to guys like Moses, or raised Jesus from the dead, or whatever. I don’t mind thinking god exists (and that perhaps we have a soul). But as for me personally I’m convinced the bible (or no other holy book for that matter) represents god (but of course to each his own)

You also stated, “I do love to stir up trouble.”

“Stirring up trouble” by “atheists” and/or “believers in nothing” is not one of the purposes/intentions for these forums at Catholic.com.

Therefore, it seems to me that you have absolutely nothing more to contribute to this thread or any others at forums.Catholic.com since you have already told us your own opinion that our God doesn’t exist and you have also already told us that you cannot be convinced otherwise.

So, why are you continuing your membership here at forums.Catholic.com? Unless, of course, your ultimate plan is to convince others, especially Catholics, to embrace your own view of “nothingness.”

Please remember, however, that you are most welcome to stay and study why we are Catholic Christians or Protestant Christians, or Orthodox Christians, etc. if you’d like to. We believe in God, the Creator of the universe. You only believe in nothingness which to us is absolutely worthless. Also, guests to our forums should not insult our God.

Like I said, “Free will. It is best to use it wisely.”

 

[bridgeforsale]

You also stated, “I do love to stir up trouble.”

“Stirring up trouble” by “atheists” and/or “believers in nothing” is not one of the purposes/intentions for these forums at Catholic.com.

Therefore, it seems to me that you have absolutely nothing more to contribute to this thread or any others at forums.Catholic.com since you have already told us your own opinion that our God doesn’t exist and you have also already told us that you cannot be convinced otherwise.

So, why are you continuing your membership here at forums.Catholic.com? Unless, of course, your ultimate plan is to convince others, especially Catholics, to embrace your own view of “nothingness.”

Please remember, however, that you are most welcome to stay and study why we are Catholic Christians or Protestant Christians, or Orthodox Christians, etc. if you’d like to. We believe in God, the Creator of the universe. You only believe in nothingness which to us is absolutely worthless. Also, guests to our forums should not insult our God.

Like I said, “Free will. It is best to use it wisely.”

Just because one lists “NONE” as their religion, doesn’t mean they don’t believe in god (much less that they completely rule out the idea). It just means they don’t a have religious preference.

 

[Teneas]

Just because one lists “NONE” as their religion, doesn’t mean they don’t believe in god (much less that they completely rule out the idea). It just means they don’t a have religious preference.

You are right, but let’s be completely fair and honest. You have said you don’t believe. Not bashing, just saying I agree with you, but it doesn’t apply to you.

 

[bridgeforsale]

You are right, but let’s be completely fair and honest. You have said you don’t believe. Not bashing, just saying I agree with you, but it doesn’t apply to you.

I’ve never said I don’t believe in the possibility a god (or something like a god). Again, I actually think there’s some compelling reasons to think something like a god might exist (I just think religion is difficult to believe from a logical perspective). However, I also think the atheist/materialist position is a reasonable one (and sometimes I use their arguments, because on those points I probably agree with them, or I at least think it’s a viable position). So I might occasionally sound like someone who doesn’t even entertain the idea of a god (but I’m not)

I might think on balance an atheist (or more accurately an agnostic) perspective is probably a more defensible view (and perhaps the better view). But like I said, I’ve looked at the evidence, and I think we must at least concede a god (or something akin to a god) is possible, and the evidence is more than just arguments from ignorance. There may be good reasons to reject those arguments, but those reasons amount to relying on historical patterns (and while historical patterns are probative, they’re far from conclusive; and I think in this case could even be unfairly prejudicial).

 

[Teneas]

I’ve never said I don’t believe in the possibility a god (or something like god) could exist. Again, I actually think there’s some compelling reasons to think something like a god might exist (I just think religion is difficult to believe from a logical perspective).

Fair enough.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I get your point, mortality stinks (I won’t argue with you there). I guess the best we can do is try to live memorable and good lives, so just in case our future offspring builds a time machine, they might find us interesting enough to retrieve from the past

Sure we can invent stories and try really hard to believe it … but I guess that just doesn’t make sense to me (plus it just hasn’t been able to work for me, in other words, and I hate to put this way, but IMHO religion is too far fetched to warrant any serious consideration; although I did give it my best shot for many years). I will say though I don’t discount the possibility of a reality beyond our apprehension (or a consciousness apart from our selves). There is some stuff out there that even throws me for a loop (but I also think the better view is that none of it is true, and to put it bluntly; this is all she wrote).

What else can I say?

Is there Truth? among so many opinions out there pulling man in all directions, we must ask this: Is there Truth and where to find?

God bless.

 

[Dokimas]

Is there Truth? among so many opinions out there pulling man in all directions, we must ask this: Is there Truth and where to find?

God bless.

Good point. Good guestion for all of us to grapple with.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Good point. Good guestion for all of us to grapple with.

I will take humility, lots of it for one to find. Jesus said: Knock and shall be opened. seek and you shall find. ask and you shall receive. Many take this as if God is talking about material things. it is far from it.