Heresy-Catholic vs Protestant definition

[Ani_Ibi]

Cat:

For a Protestant, being called a “heretic” or being told that your beliefs are 'heretical" is the equivalent of an African-American being called the “n” word.

You have made this claim twice now. And have not offered any support for it.

‘Heretical’ is not equivalent to the ‘n’ word. It is a technical term – not slang, not a term of put down. It is not a short form. It has no relation to economic power. No relation to race. No relation to socio-economic class. Whereas the ‘n’ word had all these attributes.

To claim that those who use the term ‘heretic’ are in fact using a term analogous to the ‘n’ word is disrespectful of Catholics and African Americans alike.

Cat:

It is a very hurtful word to Protestants.

What is your alternative then? Would you have the Pope say ‘those who commit heresy’? Or is even the word ‘heresy’ on trial?

Cat:

As Catholics, I think we need to try to step into their shoes and understand that, not criticize them because they don’t know what the real meaning of the word is.

In adult company, if someone speaks about something they do not know, then it is expected of them that they learn. That’s the way it works.

Your position encourages folks to stay stuck and operates to pull a discussion down to the lowest common denominator of not knowing. Your position does not encourage folks to learn. It is an enabling position. Not an empowering position.

Cat:

Frankly, Ani Ibi and others, I don’t really care what the “true” meaning of the word is. If it hurts, it HURTS.

You are saying that you “don’t really care what the “true” meaning of the word is.” Noted.

Cat:

And my question is, if using this hurtful word is going to drive a Protestant further away from the True Church, is it worth saying?

If you object to a legitimate word, then it is your responsibility to propose an alternative word which is also legitimate.

Please state your alternative word.

Cat:

There are kinder words to use to inform someone that their beliefs are not consistent with the Scripture and the Church than to label those beliefs “heretical” or to call that person or their church “heretic.”

Yet you have not given any examples of such kinder words. You have criticized others without offering an alternative. What is your alternative word please?

Also, what distinction do you make between calling Pelagiansim a heresy and calling the thinking of Johnny Poster on CAF a heresy? Are you suggesting that we not call Pelagianism a heresy?

continued…

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Cat:

I believe that the Lord will be less concerned with our proper use of words than He will be with whether or not we loved someone and turned them back to truth.

Because some folks have used a word with which you take issue you would judge the hearts of others such that you suggest that to use the word ‘heresy’ is unloving?

The Church uses the word ‘heresy.’ Are you saying that the Church is unloving? Correction is one of the seven works of mercy. Is mercy unloving? Conversely, is looking the other way when folks are in error loving?

Cat:

And when that Protestant reaches a point when he/she is willing to take a closer look at the Catholic Church, I daresay it will be because Catholics showed love to them.

Some will. Some will not. It is illogical to generalize and it is unloving to attribute an unloving attitude to those whose choice of words differs from your own.

Cat:

And it will be at that time, while they are studying Catholicism, that the Prortestant will learn the true meaning of the word “heresy” and realize that it doesn’t have the horrible connotation that they grew up with as Protestants.

How will anyone realize that the word ‘heresy’ doesn’t have the horrible connotation with which Protestants grew up if they are never exposed to the word ‘heresy’ as merely a technical term? If you deprive them of firsthand experience how can they learn?

In the meantime, what is your strategy for describing heretical ideas as they turn up on the threads?

For example, let’s say someone is defending Terri Schindler’s husband by extolling the virtues of his religious beliefs which, by all standards, are ‘gnostic.’ We cannot call them ‘gnostic’ because that would be hurtful, according to you.

Neither could we call them something else while linking to the writings of the Church on gnosticism. Why? Because folks might go to those websites and see the word ‘gnosticism’ there. And then they would be hurt.

Suddenly with one fell swoop we will have lost the ability to know the kind of error which is heresy. Why? Because we will have lost the name for the error which is heresy.

We cannot know what we cannot name.

Moreover we will have lost the ability to reference the authority of the Catholic Church on error.

Whom do you think is served when Catholics not only lose the ability to know the error which is heresy but also lose the ability to reference the authority of the Catholic Church on error – because the word ‘heresy’ has been censored?

Thoughts on whom, anyone?

 

[Cat]

Ani Ibi, I obviously don’t express myself well. You are confusing the heck out of me with your many questions and responses, and I really don’t have any idea where to start. Your knowledge of logic and philosophy far exceeds mine, and I must bow out. I just don’t have the bra(name removed by moderator)ower to respond intelligently. I thought I was asking a good question, but apparently I don’t know what I’m talking about. You have won this thread. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Please allow me to say this. I do not have any objection to the Church using the term heretic or labelling a belief as heresy. Jesus has given the Church authority and I respect that authority and yield to it.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Cat:

You have won this thread.

Cat, that was really uncalled for! Some folks seem to think these forums are some kind of contest to be lost or won and I don’t think that is what the forums are for at all!

Here is a concept which is used in group work and which I hope will be useful in future: the “I” statement.

Rather than saying that I have confused you, say that you feel confused after reading what I have posted. Then ask for clarification.

That reduces the accusations to exactly zero and keeps the discussion moving forward on a friendly keel. Fair enough?

Cat:

Please allow me to say this. I do not have any objection to the Church using the term heretic or labelling a belief as heresy. Jesus has given the Church authority and I respect that authority and yield to it.

Thank you. :tiphat: