Heresy in the Roman Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter YoungApologist3
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
When I said " if WE were to see a pope…", “WE” refers to anyone. We have 2000 years of Catholic teaching to refer to to determine whether something is a manifest doubt or denial of Catholic teaching. For example, if someone said baptism is optional it would be in manifest heresy and laypeople would not need to wait for clergy to confirm this. In this case laypeople could act by avoiding the person teaching the heresy. By doing so they are not making an official judgment - the Church will do that later. As for how the Church would handle this, it would normally be handled by the Cardinals calling a Council.

The dogma of infallibility of the Church is just that, a DOGMA, and all Catholics must believe it. It is promised in Scripture. It is described very clearly in “The Catechism Explained” (Spirago-Clarke) under the section, “The Infallibility of the Church”:

“As Christ was not to remain always on earth, He appointed another infallible teacher, His Church, and provided it with the necessary gifts, especially with the assistance of the Holy Spirit. Christ conferred on His Apostles and their successors the teaching office and promised them His divine assistance. Thus He said at His ascension into heaven: “Going, teach ye all nations…and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world” (Matt, xxviii. 19, 20) ; and at the Last Supper: “I will ask the Father and He shall give you another Paraclete that He may abide with you forever, the Spirit of truth”; (John xiv. 16, 17). To St. Peter He said: “The gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church” (Matt. xvi. 18). Since Christ is the Son of God, His words must be true. If the Church, in the carrying out of her teaching office, could lead man into error, Christ would not have kept His word. Hence St. Paul calls the Church “the pillar and ground of truth” (1 Tim. iii. 15), and the measures decided upon by the apostles in the Council of Jerusalem were introduced with the words: “For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us” (Acts xv. 28).”

With the above dogma in mind, if Catholics see a manifest heresy, it is guaranteed that the Catholic Church is not the author.
 
I do not believe that the cardinals assembled in council, or even all the bishops of the world combined have the power to recognize a possible heresy of the reigning pope, else I’m curious to read the references.
The Church acts in authority when it does so in communion with the reigning pope.
 
Here is one reference from Elements of Ecclesiastical Law, 1887:

“Q. Is a Pope who falls into heresy deprived, ipso facto, of the Pontificate? A. 1. There are two
opinions: one holds that he is, by virtue of divine appointment, divested, /ipso facto/, of the Pontificate; the other, that he is, /jure divino/, only removable. Both opinions agree that he must at least be declared guilty of heresy by the Church - i.e., by an oecumenical council of the College of Cardinals.”
 
they are opinions if I understood correctly, not canonical laws …
I do not believe that there is a canon law that gives a power to the cardinals to recognize the heresy of a pope, and therefore to demit him in some way. Only God can dismiss a pope.
 
Last edited:
I know you are hesitant to believe this, but it is truly a teaching of the Catholic Church. Here is another reference with imprimatur:

"A pope can only be deposed for heresy, expressed or implied, and then only by a general council. It is
not strictly deposition, but a declaration of fact, since by his heresy he has already ceased to be head of
the Church…" A Catholic Dictionary, 1951. Pope, Deposition of a
 
Sorry to insist, but I want a canon right that says it. What you say since are only theological opinions
 
Here’s another reference. Notice it mentions multiple Councils have ruled on this - there is simply no doubt about it:

“The councils of Constance and Basle, and Gallican theologians, hold that a council may depose a pope…(2) /ob fidem/ (on account of his faith or rather want of faith, i.e. heresy). In point of fact however, heresy is the only legitimate ground. For a heretical pope has ceased to be a member of the Church, and cannot, therefore, be its head.” Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913. [Vol. IV p.435] Councils
 
Eddie18 said:
When I said " if WE were to see a pope…", “WE” refers to anyone
Click to expand...
This (identifying heresy by the pope) is not something that might happen, it is something that goes on all the time. The problem is that what the National Catholic Reporter labelled papal heresy is wildly different from what the SSPX does. “Anyone” ALREADY does label papal heresy - someone does it at least once a week, often for reasons opposite from the heresy-claimer of last week.

When you say “if we were to see a pope”, who is the spokesman for this “we”? Why would this “we” be more authoritative than the many other we’s that labelled the pope a heretic last year?
The quote in your post refers to the “infallibility of the Church” in the Magisterium. It does not teach infallibility of the Church apart from the Magisterium.

Any time the websites want to raise money, they push the agenda that “WE” are infallible, the Church in itself, not just the Magisterium. This pulls donations and website hits away from competing websites that merely try to undermine the bishops, rather than the pope. Nobody ever went broke denouncing the Vatican.
 
Last edited:
Many pope’s like Pope Adrian VI and Blessed Pius IX have openly admitted that a pope can slip into heresy.
 
I know this reply wasn’t directed to me, but since I happened to have a quote handy from a pope stating that a pope can fall into heresy, I thought I would share:

"The Pope should not flatter himself about his power nor should he rashly glory in his honor and high
estate, because the less he is judged by man, the more he is judged by God. Still the less can the Roman
Pontiff glory because he can be judged by men, or rather, can be shown to be already judged, if for
example he should wither away into heresy; because he who does not believe is already judged, In such
a case it should be said of him: „If salt should lose its savor, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and
trampled under foot by men." Pope Innocent III, 12th century
 
Pope Innocent III stated that a pope can wither away into heresy and not believe the Faith.

"The pope should not flatter himself about his power, nor should he rashly glory in his honour and high estate, because the less he is judged by man, the more he is judged by God. Still the less can the Roman Pontiff glory, because he can be judged by men, or rather, can be shown to be already judged, if for example he should wither away into heresy, because “he who does not believe is already judged.” (St. John 3:18) In such a case it should be said of him: 'If salt should lose its savor, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot by men.” (Sermo 4)

Pope Adrian VI stated that it is beyond question that a pope can err in matters touching the Faith, he can teach heresy in decrees. He also stated many Roman Pontiffs were heretics.

“If by the Roman Church you mean its head or pontiff, it is beyond question that he can err even in matters touching the faith. He does this when he teaches heresy by his own judgment or decree. In truth, many Roman pontiffs were heretics. The last of them was Pope John XXII († 1334).”

(Quaest. in IV Sent.; from Papal Infallibility and the Syllabus, 1908 by Viollet).

Venerable Pope Pius IX recognized the danger that a future pope would be a heretic and teach contrary to the Catholic Faith, and he instructed, do not follow him:

“If a future pope teaches anything contrary to the Catholic Faith, do not follow him.” (Letter to Bishop Brizen)

Pope Adrian II admitted that papal heresy renders lawful the resistance of subordinates to their superiors, and their rejection of the latter’s pernicious teachings:

“We read that the Roman Pontiff has always possessed authority to pass judgment on the heads of all the Churches ( i.e., the patriarchs and bishops ), but nowhere do we read that he has been the subject of judgment by others. It is true that Honorius was posthumously anathematized by the Eastern churches, but it must be borne in mind that he had been accused of heresy, the only offense which renders lawful the resistance of subordinates to their superiors, and their rejection of the latter’s pernicious teachings”.
 
Last edited:
Once upon a time, there were three Popes.

When there were three popes?
Western Schism. Western Schism, also called Great Schism or Great Western Schism, in the history of the Roman Catholic Church, the period from 1378 to 1417, when there were two, and later three, rival popes, each with his own following, his own Sacred College of Cardinals, and his own administrative offices.
Code: 
 Look, Jesus is the Head of the church. We, the ppl, are the Mystical body of Christ. The tenets of the church are our directives. Some of us disagree w some, not the big ones. 
 Our Church, is not God! The Priest scandal, which is not over, took a lot of integrity & holiness from the church. Presently, some Cardinals visited Pope F. & counseled him,in his HERESAY, of giving communion to divorced women?? 
It has always been,  where divorced, ppl could receive communion, if NOT REMARRIED!
 Have you heard, 64 Chilean Bishops visited Pope F & discussed the scandalous state of our church.  “THE FACE OF CHRIST IS NOT SEEN IN OUR CHURCH!”  They resigned, last week!!
What is the Chilean church to do? PRAY. PRAY. PRAY!
Couldn’t they have presented their opinions to the Pope? Then, make a plan to attack the problems, in their nation. One, at a time.
Holy Hannah!
I believe, the first church had the right Spirit at what ever level, they could operate, while under severe persecution! The church was built on the blood of the martyrs. After 300 AD, it, probably began to slip…SIGH! Only God knows the Popes, of whom,He is well, pleased.
Scandal facts: 848(?) priests have been defrocked. Why not jail?? About 1,200 have been sentenced to a life of prayer & solitude(?).
I’m not sure is solitude is the right word. 848 could be 858? If guilty=NEED JAIL!
And over 1000 homosexual priests are still pushing for their rights in the church!!!
Our childhood innocence was so nice.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top