Heresy in the US adult cathechism?

[strugglingalong]

The United States Catholic Catechism for Adults (2006), states explicitly:
“The covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid for them."

What kind of authority does this pronouncement have? It seems to contradict Exra ecclesiam nulla salus and also Dominus Iesus .(Christ as the sole savior of humanity) “No one can come to the Father except by me.”

Have you seen this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=260681

That part of the Catechism has been rejected and is being replaced. It is wrong. The Mosaic covenant is not “eternally valid for them.”

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

Saying “The Jews’ covenant with God is permanent” is not the same thing as saying “the Jews can be saved through the Old Covenant alone.”

The former affirms that God still has a special relationship with the Chosen People; they haven’t been abandoned or anything. Obviously, we don’t want to go as far as the Dispensationalists who paint the entirety of Christian history as a brief interruption of God’s dealings with Israel, but we can affirm with Paul that God still fully intends to bring physical Israel into union with spiritual Israel before the end of time.

The latter statement, which is the heretical one, alleges that Jews can be saved through Judaism, without Christ.

The former statement has often been misunderstood to mean the same as the latter statement, but it does not. Catholics can affirm the former statement, but not the latter.

The Church does acknowledge that some Jews may be saved and attain Heaven without visibly converting to Christianity, just as She says the same about Muslims and members of other religions. However, none of those people are saved because of their religion, but rather in spite of it, because they sought to serve God as best they could given the knowledge they had.

Basically, we don’t want to characterize today’s Jews as “losers” who missed the boat on the Messiah and have been following a defunct Covenant ever since. Rather, they are our spiritual ancestors and elder brothers, and God still has plans for His “natural branches” that we “grafted branches” (Gentile Christians) have no part in. At the same time, we affirm that those plans involve in some way the coming of Israel as a corporate entity to acknowledge the Messiah Who has already come.

Usagi

Saying that the Old Covenant is eternal IS heretical because we as Catholics know that the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus Christ. His is the NEW covenant. The Catholic Church is the continuation and fulfillment of the jewish Old Covenant.

Its hard to hear, sure, but modern Jews DID “miss out” and certainly are “loosing” something: membership in God’s Church! And there is no need to bring the “physical israel” into communion with the “spirritual israel.” The Church is present in Israel, and has been from the beginning.

 

[Joe_5859]

Two things come to mind. First, the older Catechism (approved by Pope John Paul in 1997) says this:

839
"Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ";328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

The second thing that comes to mind is that the Jews have a Covenant with God: You will be my people and I will be your God.

God’s Covenant cannot be broken. If it could be broken, what reason would we have to believe him and follow him now? He could change his mind next week and we’d be left out.

That’s exactly what I was going to say!

The USCCA was approved by the US bishops and it received the recognitio from the Holy See. In light of this, I think we should presume that no heresy exists unless there is great evidence to the contrary. Certainly we may not agree that everything was formulated in the best way possible, but we should first ask ourselves whether we are understanding what the USCCA is saying before we start accusing it of being heretical.

 

[strugglingalong]

Have you peoples read this news:

WASHINGTON (CNS) – The U.S. bishops have voted to ask the Vatican to approve a small change in the U.S. Catholic Catechism for Adults to clarify church teaching on God’s covenant with the Jewish people.

The proposed change – which would replace one sentence in the catechism – was discussed by the bishops in executive session at their June meeting in Orlando, Fla., but did not receive the needed two-thirds majority of all members of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops at that time.

After mail balloting, the final vote of 231-14, with one abstention, was announced Aug. 5 in a letter to bishops from Msgr. David Malloy, USCCB general secretary.

The change, which must be confirmed by the Vatican Congregation for Clergy, would remove from the catechism a sentence that reads: “Thus the covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid for them.”

Replacing it would be this sentence: “To the Jewish people, whom God first chose to hear his word, ‘belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ’” (Rom 9:4-5; cf. CCC, No. 839).

“Talking points” distributed to the bishops along with Msgr. Malloy’s letter said the proposed revision “is not a change in the church’s teaching.”

“Catholics understand that all previous covenants that God made with the Jewish people have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ through the new covenant established through his sacrificial death on the cross,” the talking points say.

“The prior version of the text,” they continue, “might be understood to imply that one of the former covenants imparts salvation without the mediation of Christ, whom Christians believe to be the universal savior of all people.”

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[Layp3rs0n]

Remember Christ said that “not one iota of the Law will pass away”. The New Covenent replaces the Old yes, but not in a way that does away with the Latter. It is simply complete, fullfilled. Its not that It doesn’t exist, It has simply been checked off. Completed.

 

[MrS]

I was interested in this Catholic blog site and their take on it… a good explanation…

unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2008/08/sungenis-gives-headache-to-usccb.html

.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

In case anyone has been led into the error of believing that the Old Covenant is still valid for the Jews, as the USCCB Adult Catechism explicitly taught, I wil provide a few quotes showing what the Church actually teaches.

Council of Florence: It [the Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to the divine worship at that time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of the law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally. Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, it declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation, unless someday they recover from these errors".

Pope Pius XII taught the same in Mystici Corporis Christi:

Pope Pius XII:** "And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; **then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area – He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the house of Israel -the Law and the Gospel were together in force; but on the gibbet of his death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees, fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race. “To such an extent, then,” says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, “was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom.” (Mystici Corporis, #29).

Let us hold fast to what the Church has always taught and turn a deaf ear to anyone who teaches the contrary, keeping in mind that during the Arian crisis it is said that between 97% and 99% of the Bishops were Aian heretics. What percent of Bishops today believe that the Old Covenant “has never been revoked by God” and is still salvific for the Jews? God only knows, but it may be as high as those who denied the Divinity of Jesus during the Arian crisis.

St. Vincent of Lerins: "What then will the Catholic Christian do, if a small part of the Church has cut itself off from the communion of the universal Faith? The answer is sure. He will prefer the healthiness of the whole body to the morbid and corrupt limb. But what if some novel contagion try to infect the whole Church, and not merely a tiny part of it? Then he will take care to cleave to antiquity 9Tradition), which cannot now be led astray by any deceit of novelty.

 

[Joe_5859]

In case anyone has been led into the error of believing that the Old Covenant is still valid for the Jews, as the USCCB Adult Catechism explicitly taught, I wil provide a few quotes showing what the Church actually teaches.

Council of Florence: It [the Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to the divine worship at that time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of the law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally. Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, it declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation, unless someday they recover from these errors".

Pope Pius XII taught the same in Mystici Corporis Christi:

Pope Pius XII:** "And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished;** then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area – He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the house of Israel -the Law and the Gospel were together in force; but on the gibbet of his death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees, fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race. “To such an extent, then,” says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, “was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom.” (Mystici Corporis, #29).

Let us hold fast to what the Church has always taught and turn a deaf ear to anyone who teaches the contrary, keeping in mind that during the Arian crisis it is said that between 97% and 99% of the Bishops were Aian heretics. What percent of Bishops today believe that the Old Covenant “has never been revoked by God” and is still salvific for the Jews? God only knows, but it may be as high as those who denied the Divinity of Jesus during the Arian crisis.

St. Vincent of Lerins: "What then will the Catholic Christian do, if a small part of the Church has cut itself off from the communion of the universal Faith? The answer is sure. He will prefer the healthiness of the whole body to the morbid and corrupt limb. But what if some novel contagion try to infect the whole Church, and not merely a tiny part of it? Then he will take care to cleave to antiquity 9Tradition), which cannot now be led astray by any deceit of novelty.

These quotes speak of the Old Law (i.e., kosher laws, purity laws, animal sacrifice, etc.), not the Old Covenant (God’s promise to never abandon them). Try again.

The whole USCAA received a recognitio from the Holy See. I think that’s a good sign that there is no heresy (if the fact that our own bishops approved it fails to convince). The bishops are the ones who have been entrusted with teaching the faith and they are the ones who are able to teach authoritatively. That charism does not apply to any of us.

I agree that the language could be clearer, and that seems to be what’s happening with the proposed revision, but I think it’s an overstatement to call it heresy.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

These quotes speak of the Old Law (i.e., kosher laws, purity laws, animal sacrifice, etc.), not the Old Covenant (God’s promise to never abandon them). Try again.

The words “Law”, “Covenant”, and “Testament” are used interchangeably".

The Old Covenant, or Old Testament, is null and void. It has been both fulfilled and revoked, and is no longer salvific.

Jeremiah: 31:31-32 “Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda: Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void…”

That prophecy has been fulfilled.

The Jews remain God’s chosen people “according to the flesh”, but they have been “cut off from the house of Israel” (Romans 11) through their unbelief. They are re-“grafted in” when they convert to the Catholic Faith, as Paul also teaches in Romans.

Pope Pius XII: "And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area – He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the house of Israel -the Law and the Gospel were together in force; but on the gibbet of his death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees, fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race. “To such an extent, then,” says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, “was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom.” (Mystici Corporis, #29).

Again, the words “Covenant”, “Testament”, and “law” are used interchangeably as they all refer to the previous Covenant God made with Isreal.

 

[Cristiano]

The words “Law”, “Covenant”, and “Testament” are used interchangeably".

The Old Covenant, or Old Testament, is null and void. It has been both fulfilled and revoked, and is no longer salvific.

Jeremiah: 31:31-32 “Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and **I will make a new covenant **with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda: Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void…”

That prophecy has been fulfilled.

The Jews remain God’s chosen people “according to the flesh”, but they have been “cut off from the house of Israel” (Romans 11) through their unbelief. They are re-“grafted in” when they convert to the Catholic Faith, as Paul also teaches in Romans.

Pope Pius XII: "And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area – He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the house of Israel -the Law and the Gospel were together in force; but on the gibbet of his death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees, **fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament **to the Cross, establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race. “To such an extent, then,” says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, “was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom.” (Mystici Corporis, #29).

Again, the words “Covenant”, “Testament”, and “law” are used interchangeably as they all refer to the previous Covenant God made with Isreal.

If that it is so simple, then why do we waste time teaching the Ten Commandments? Why do we have them in the different catechisms? Why do we use them as a reference for the examination of conscience before confession?

 

[Joe_5859]

The words “Law”, “Covenant”, and “Testament” are used interchangeably".

Yes, “Covenant” and “Testament” can be used interchangeably (as they mean the same thing), but not “Law”! Maybe you use them interchangeably, but I do not believe that’s the norm.

I don’t think anyone is arguing (nor is the USCAA stating) that the Old Covenant is salvific. I’m not sure why or how that has entered into the conversation.

 

[NeedImprovement]

On the contrary my friend is what my fractured French was trying say!!

C’est ce que j’ai compris. (french for: That’s what I understood it to be)

I didn’t see anything fractured about it.

BTW, very nice user name.