Heresy: To declare that someone is in hell?

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PRmerger said:
Then what you are describing has no place in this thread.
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I responded to

“Well, you folks keep telling me that I am condemned to hell.” in #[1 (http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13781168&postcount=1)
P:
We are talking about whether it’s right and correct to tell someone that he’s condemned to hell.
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I’ve given you this example already.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy,a] drunkenness, carousing, and the like.I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

“Shall not inherit the kingdom of God” = Hell if one dies in any of them.

Do you have a problem telling someone that? I don’t

Or telling someone this
  • Titus 3:10-11 Reject a factious (αἱρετικὸν )man after a first and second warning, 11knowing that such a man is )perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
  • Ephesians 5:3-5 fornication, covetousness……5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
  • Hebrews 10:23-27 missing Eucharist deliberately on Sunday, no sacrifice for sin for THEM but a fiery judgement that consumes the adversaries of God.
  • Hebrews 12:16-17 immoraliy,(πόρνος ) is selling your inheritance
  • Galatians 5: 19 - 21 sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions (διχοστασίαι ), factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, will not inherit heaven
  • Romans 16:17… dividers ( διχοστασίαι )don’t serve our Lord but themselves. Stay away from them. Satan will soon be crushed under your feet
  • Colossians 3: 5-6 immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry, …rath of God is coming
  • 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 no sexually immoral (πόρνοι ), nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders ( ἀρσενοκοῖται ), 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
  • Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
  • 2 Peter 2:4-22
  • 2 Thes 1: 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

    1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

    1035The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
 
steve_b said:
I’ve given you this example already.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy,a] drunkenness, carousing, and the like.I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

“Shall not inherit the kingdom of God” = Hell if one dies in any of them.

Do you have a problem telling someone that? I don’t

Or telling someone this
  • Titus 3:10-11 Reject a factious (αἱρετικὸν )man after a first and second warning, 11knowing that such a man is )perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
  • Ephesians 5:3-5 fornication, covetousness……5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
  • Hebrews 10:23-27 missing Eucharist deliberately on Sunday, no sacrifice for sin for THEM but a fiery judgement that consumes the adversaries of God.
  • Hebrews 12:16-17 immoraliy,(πόρνος ) is selling your inheritance
  • Galatians 5: 19 - 21 sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions (διχοστασίαι ), factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, will not inherit heaven
  • Romans 16:17… dividers ( διχοστασίαι )don’t serve our Lord but themselves. Stay away from them. Satan will soon be crushed under your feet
  • Colossians 3: 5-6 immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry, …rath of God is coming
  • 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 no sexually immoral (πόρνοι ), nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders ( ἀρσενοκοῖται ), 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
  • Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
  • 2 Peter 2:4-22
  • 2 Thes 1: 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
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I give a hearty Amen! to all of the above verses.

However, none of them gives permission to declare that someone is condemned to hell.

That is above your pay grade.

However, if you feel that you have some special gnosis and know that this person is going to hell, and you think it’s helpful to tell him, “You’re going to hell!” go for it.

Let us know how that works out for you, ok? 🙂

Or, even if you don’t believe you’ve been given a special insight that this person is going to hell, and you don’t care that you may be wrong about this…hey, go for it, too. If it doesn’t make you tremble that you may be wrong about declaring this person is destined for hell, then there’s nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise.

So, again, go for it, even if you’re not certain that he is destined for hell.
1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”
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Amen!
1035The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
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Indeed.

No Catholic ought to deny the existence of hell and its eternity.
 
PRmerger said:
I give a hearty Amen! to all of the above verses.

However, none of them gives permission to declare that someone is condemned to hell.

That is above your pay grade.
However, if you feel that you have some special gnosis and know that this person is going to hell, and you think it’s helpful to tell him, “You’re going to hell!” go for it.

Let us know how that works out for you, ok? 🙂

Or, even if you don’t believe you’ve been given a special insight that this person is going to hell, and you don’t care that you may be wrong about this…hey, go for it, too. If it doesn’t make you tremble that you may be wrong about declaring this person is destined for hell, then there’s nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise.
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The following from Ezekiel says what I’ve been saying to you.

Not everyone who dies,
  • dies in their iniquity
  • and their righteous deeds they’ve done shall not be remembered;
  • that only makes a difference when we’re talking about going to heaven or hell
So the following is talking about more than just death of the body. It’s talking about warning one going to hell after they die if they won’t change. It also condemns the person who won’t specifically warn the evil doer.

**Ez 3: **
18 If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you will have saved your life. 20 Again, if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he took warning; and you will have saved your life.”

That instruction is as valid then as it is today.
 
steve_b said:
The following from Ezekiel says what I’ve been saying to you.

Not everyone who dies,
  • dies in their iniquity
  • and their righteous deeds they’ve done shall not be remembered;
  • that only makes a difference when we’re talking about going to heaven or hell
So the following is talking about more than just death of the body. It’s talking about warning one going to hell after they die if they won’t change. It also condemns the person who won’t specifically warn the evil doer.

**Ez 3: **
18 If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you will have saved your life. 20 Again, if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he took warning; and you will have saved your life.”

That instruction is as valid then as it is today.
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Go for it.

Tell your atheist family member that he’s wicked.

Tell us how this works for you.
 
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