heresy

[gallenstein6]

I read the third lateran council last night and was very disturbed by its contents. The council stated that the faithful would have remission of their sins if they opposed heretics and that they should/could use arms to oppose them and could enslave them. The killing of heretics has occured through out church’s history, how could the church teach this? How could we possible promote a culture of life if our church has the blood of hundreds of heretics on our hands? Has the church changed its stance of this? Thanks

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

It is easy to condemn based on a hasty judgment, not knowing the history that leads up to what the Church has to contend with. Are you disturbed with the 25 canons that lead up to numbers 26 and 27? Bishops should be 30 years old or older? Excessive usury? 800 years later, check cashing services with hundreds of points of APR are still the subject of condemnation by Bishops in poorer parishes in light of recent teachings on social justice.
Cruelty was not met by a “rule of law” as we have today, lawsuits that break the finances of organizations or corporations that exploit had to be met then with force.

With regard to the Brabanters, Aragonese, Navarrese, Basques, Coterelli and Triaverdini, who practise such cruelty upon Christians that they respect neither churches nor monasteries, and spare neither widows, orphans, old or young nor any age or sex, but like pagans destroy and lay everything waste, we likewise decree that those who hire, keep or support them, in the districts where they rage around, should be denounced publicly on Sundays and other solemn days in the churches, that they should be subject in every way to the same sentence and penalty as the above-mentioned heretics and that they should not be received into the communion of the church, unless they abjure their pernicious society and heresy. As long as such people persist in their wickedness, let all who are bound to them by any pact know that they are free from all obligations of loyalty, homage or any obedience. On these and on all the faithful we enjoin, for the remission of sins, that they oppose this scourge with all their might and by arms protect the christian people against them.

dailycatholic.org/history/11ecume1.htm

If only more force were used today in area’s of abortion or heresy such as books and groups in my parish denying the divinity of Jesus, in lieu of “niceness” and not wanting to hurt anyone’s feelings. Slowly being led to perdition via acquiescence to sin under the guise of respect for others opinions is where our “humanistic” society is leading us. No one today supports Mary Queen of Scots burning Cranmer at the steak but we too often in supporting Cranmer as a human being also support his theology in opposition to the Church.

He renounced the recantations that he had written or signed with his own hand since his degradation and as such he stated his hand would be punished by being burnt first. He then said, “And as for the pope, I refuse him, as Christ’s enemy, and Antichrist with all his false doctrine.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cranmer

Many lead themselves to heresy by judging hastily and leaving reason to be ruled by emotion.

 

[TLM08]

I read the third lateran council last night and was very disturbed by its contents. The council stated that the faithful would have remission of their sins if they opposed heretics and that they should/could use arms to oppose them and could enslave them. The killing of heretics has occured through out church’s history, how could the church teach this? How could we possible promote a culture of life if our church has the blood of hundreds of heretics on our hands? Has the church changed its stance of this? Thanks

There is probably more blood on the hands of the catholic church than any other entity in the history of mankind due centuries of power hungry leaders mixing religion with politics. A lot of this bloodshed was the result of religious wars featuring untold cruelty. When one hears this for the first time it is shocking. That doesn’t change the fact that it is true.

In the church’s defense, it is good to remember that if it weren’t for the pope’s armies Islamic militants would have exterminated christians from the face of the earth over 1000 years ago.

Also it helps to realize that over the last 150 years or so, the catholic church has done more good in the world than any other entity. Catholic charities house, feed, clothe, provide medicine and education to millions of poverty stricken of all religious persuasions around the world!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

There is probably more blood on the hands of the catholic church than any other entity in the history of mankind due centuries of power hungry leaders mixing religion with politics. A lot of this bloodshed was the result of religious wars featuring untold cruelty. When one hears this for the first time it is shocking. That doesn’t change the fact that it is true.
. . .!

I think you will find that more blood was shed in the secular wars of the 19th and 20th centuries than in all the religious wars in the previous 30 or 40 centuries.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

“For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there among them.” The problem is in being gathered in “His Name”. Killing is not the end purpose of gathering in Jesus’ name so I say no war is attributable to religious ideals. It is man who uses religion, or politics, or money, or power, to war over. Religious ideals are not to be released in anger over ones brother and doing so is the antithesis of the religious values purportedly being used for waring. Getting rid of hands that hit or feet that kick like those who want to rid the world of supernatural religion (in place of their assent to their temporal “religious” ideals, materialism, humanism, etc.) is disingenuous, untruthful, and the work of the father of lies.

Islamic “assent by the sword” is a good example of where indignation should be placed in using religion for oppression and death.

 

[GraceDK]

I read the third lateran council last night and was very disturbed by its contents. The council stated that the faithful would have remission of their sins if they opposed heretics and that they should/could use arms to oppose them and could enslave them. The killing of heretics has occured through out church’s history, how could the church teach this? How could we possible promote a culture of life if our church has the blood of hundreds of heretics on our hands? Has the church changed its stance of this? Thanks

The church has repented and asked forgiveness. We must take this to heart. We are not disciples unles we learn to confess both individually and corporately.
Benedict lately said to Muslim leaders that they could learn something from us because of a hard learned lesson of history that the Church has gone through.
Only when the church stops denying can healing come.
It was wrong.
Jesus is not a politician and not a murderer. often bishops have misunderstood God and used their power in his name to punish people to horrible death without compassion… just like sharia.
We are not better than other barbarians in this world. all we have is sin… without His transformation of our hearts we die in our sin… because only Christ is better. and I tell my self that the Church has zoomed more in on Him the last few decades and that being humiliated through the reformation was maybe a good punch to the EGO of many … these two things: Christ, humility, Christ, humility, Love, humility… these are the key

 

[EvelynEVF]

I think we’re so used to the separation of Church and State in the USA that we forget that culturally and historically it has been and is different in most of the world.

We look at a “religious” conflict and tend to assume that it was mostly religious, forgetting that state and church were so tangled up for most of history, that those assumptions just aren’t valid. Yes, the Church is culpable for some pretty bad stuff, but it was all tangled up in politics in ways we aren’t used to anymore.