Heretic Hour at the local church

[Karl_M]

I had to work late and missed Mass at my usual church, so I had to go to a different one.

At any rate, after the entrance song (which came after the opening prayer), their pastoral administrator, a woman, gave about a ten minute talk about how today’s scripture affects us in our daily lives…essentially it was a homily. The priest did talk for about two minutes after he read the Gospel.

Then, the priest didn’t say part of the Eucharistic Prayer (Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation…) he didn’t wash his hands, he poured after the consecration, and he took communion last, being served by one of the twelve EMHC’s.

I’m not going to bother calling or writing the priest, he knows full well that what he’s doing is wrong. I don’t know if I should write the Bishop. The Diocese offices are closed until Jan. 2, and I think any letter I write or email will get lost in the shuffle. I just don’t know what to do. I see boards like these and I am so encouraged, then go to a Mass like that and see that there does not appear to be any attempt to “take back the Mass.” It’s extremely discouraging.

 

[1ke]

As distressing as it is to witness a priest purposely ignoring the rubrics of Mass, it is not heresy.

You should approach the priest first, and then the bishop if there is no change.

 

[THurifer2]

I had to work late and missed Mass at my usual church, so I had to go to a different one.

At any rate, after the entrance song (which came after the opening prayer), their pastoral administrator, a woman, gave about a ten minute talk about how today’s scripture affects us in our daily lives…essentially it was a homily. The priest did talk for about two minutes after he read the Gospel.

Then, the priest didn’t say part of the Eucharistic Prayer (Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation…) he didn’t wash his hands, he poured after the consecration, and he took communion last, being served by one of the twelve EMHC’s.

I’m not going to bother calling or writing the priest, he knows full well that what he’s doing is wrong. I don’t know if I should write the Bishop. The Diocese offices are closed until Jan. 2, and I think any letter I write or email will get lost in the shuffle. I just don’t know what to do. I see boards like these and I am so encouraged, then go to a Mass like that and see that there does not appear to be any attempt to “take back the Mass.” It’s extremely discouraging.

Could you imagine if Fr. John Corapi was incardinated into this diocese and was assigned to this parish???/ Talk about wailing and knashing of teeth. I don’t know why Fr. Corapi came to mind but…kowabunga! the man is an intimidating figure. His eyes alone melt me. And I am a very big former Rugby player.

 

[PaulJason]

Fr. Groeschel or Fr. Casey would be good ones to send to this parish. Not that Fr. Corapi couldn’t handle it, but back up never hurt.

I do agree that the Priest knows what he is doing, and knows that it is wrong. I would send a letter to the Bishop.

 

[grandfather]

Fr. Groeschel or Fr. Casey would be good ones to send to this parish. Not that Fr. Corapi couldn’t handle it, but back up never hurt.

I do agree that the Priest knows what he is doing, and knows that it is wrong. I would send a letter to the Bishop.

My guess is thousands of letters have been sent to bishops about abuse of this kinf a worse. It is reare that anything gets done. It s only when the light is shined on the problems and they become open to the public eye and there is a broad based reaction demanding action that corrections are made. You bishop probably knows what is going on. I would make public the name of the parish and the priest. Witness the response to the recent San Francisco scandal. I suspect that the praish there will continue with its outrages, but the bishop had to act and do something. The pastor was removed.

 

[Vox_Borealis]

My guess is thousands of letters have been sent to bishops about abuse of this kinf a worse. It is reare that anything gets done. It s only when the light is shined on the problems and they become open to the public eye and there is a broad based reaction demanding action that corrections are made. You bishop probably knows what is going on. I would make public the name of the parish and the priest. Witness the response to the recent San Francisco scandal. I suspect that the praish there will continue with its outrages, but the bishop had to act and do something. The pastor was removed.

Don’t you think it is your duty, at least, to go through the motions of due process, even if you expect nothing to happen? Write the bishop and CC the priest. If (when?) nothing happens, move up the chain.

I sympathize with your frustration, I’ve written letters which, I have concluded, had little effect. But when we gripe and do nothing, we contribute to the problem.

 

[RobNY]

Then, the priest didn’t say part of the Eucharistic Prayer (Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation…) he didn’t wash his hands, he poured after the consecration, and he took communion last, being served by one of the twelve EMHC’s.

The priest (I think) is allowed to say the “blessed be God” prayer silently. Are you sure he didn’t do this? (I could be wrong about this, but it is best to err on the side of caution when accusing a priest.)

 

[East_and_West]

As distressing as it is to witness a priest purposely ignoring the rubrics of Mass, it is not heresy.

The liturgical abuses suggest heresy. Have you heard the phrase “lex orendi lex credendi”? It means the law of prayer is the law of faith and refers to the idea that the faith is contained in the liturgy.
Anyway, i “think Heretic Hour” is a funny title for a thread anyway.

 

[grandfather]

Don’t you think it is your duty, at least, to go through the motions of due process, even if you expect nothing to happen? Write the bishop and CC the priest. If (when?) nothing happens, move up the chain.

I sympathize with your frustration, I’ve written letters which, I have concluded, had little effect. But when we gripe and do nothing, we contribute to the problem.

It depends on the local ordinary, the situation in the diocese, and how well the person who wishes to see some discipline knows the climate in his diocese. Going up the chain is usually no help. What works is putting pressure on. Think about the scandals we have suffered. In many cases due process was followed. The bishops were made aware of terrible crimes being committed by clergy. They ignored them and covered for them until the puss boiled over, and in many places they still are not doing a good job. Exposing malefactors to the public light works sometimes. Exposing them to the bishop very rarely does anything.

 

[Karl_M]

The priest (I think) is allowed to say the “blessed be God” prayer silently. Are you sure he didn’t do this? (I could be wrong about this, but it is best to err on the side of caution when accusing a priest.)

Most priests I’ve seen do it silently, but this priest didn’t do it at all. He poured water into the wine, handed off the cruet to the altar server, then turned back to us and immediately launched into “Pray, brothers and sisters, that these gifts…”

I should add that this parish includes a school, and is a quite sizable parish. Also, the congregation loves the priest, and several of the people I talked to gushed about how fantastic it was that Father has women preaching.

 

[benedictgal]

It depends on the local ordinary, the situation in the diocese, and how well the person who wishes to see some discipline knows the climate in his diocese. Going up the chain is usually no help. What works is putting pressure on. Think about the scandals we have suffered. In many cases due process was followed. The bishops were made aware of terrible crimes being committed by clergy. They ignored them and covered for them until the puss boiled over, and in many places they still are not doing a good job. Exposing malefactors to the public light works sometimes. Exposing them to the bishop very rarely does anything.

That is very true. We have our own problem in our diocese, wherein things have been brought to the bishop’s attention, but, nothing has happened. The final recourse is to write to Francis Cardinal Arinze and for the OP to inform him, assuming that after he first writes to the pastor and then, to the bishop, that the ordinary has taken no action.

Laity actually got the ball rolling and complained to Rome regarding the issue of kneeling to receive Holy Communion. Cardinal Arinze sent a direct response to both the petitioner and to the USCCB saying that Holy Communion could not be denied if a communcant chose to kneel in order to receive.

Someone in my diocese sent a letter to the Congregation about a year and a half ago. The person is not expecting a direct response; although they’ll know that something will happen when the bishop starts to take his obligations more seriously.

What the OP reported pretty much violates RS and the GIRM left and right. What the OP needs to do now is to match the abuse with the appropriate citations from GIRM and RS and include them in his letter to both the priest and the bishop. Something has got to give.

 

[1ke]

The liturgical abuses suggest heresy. Have you heard the phrase “lex orendi lex credendi”? It means the law of prayer is the law of faith and refers to the idea that the faith is contained in the liturgy.

I disagree. It does not suggest heresy, it suggests disobedience to the Law of the Church.

They are not the same thing.

Anyway, i “think Heretic Hour” is a funny title for a thread anyway.

I don’t.

The term “heretic” is tossed about with too much frequency on these forums.

 

[PaulJason]

Heresy according to the CCC

“Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him” (CCC 2089).

 

[Dempsey1919]

So sorry to hear about this.

Have you thought about attending the Tridentine Mass? You probably wouldn’t like a low Mass but a Missa Cantata (Sung Mass) is great.

Always remember that there are now to forms of the Mass in the Roman rite.

 

[Mousey]

I attended a mass with very similar abuses. I wrote the priest without answer. I then wrote the Bishop who replied very kindly. Part of what he said was that it was not possible for him to know what every parish was doing. He thanked me and corrected the problems.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Hey Karl…don’t lose hope…tell us where you reside…who your Bishop is, etc…let us know what is going on…trust me, I have been in your shoes before. God Bless

I had to work late and missed Mass at my usual church, so I had to go to a different one.

At any rate, after the entrance song (which came after the opening prayer), their pastoral administrator, a woman, gave about a ten minute talk about how today’s scripture affects us in our daily lives…essentially it was a homily. The priest did talk for about two minutes after he read the Gospel.

Then, the priest didn’t say part of the Eucharistic Prayer (Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation…) he didn’t wash his hands, he poured after the consecration, and he took communion last, being served by one of the twelve EMHC’s.

I’m not going to bother calling or writing the priest, he knows full well that what he’s doing is wrong. I don’t know if I should write the Bishop. The Diocese offices are closed until Jan. 2, and I think any letter I write or email will get lost in the shuffle. I just don’t know what to do. I see boards like these and I am so encouraged, then go to a Mass like that and see that there does not appear to be any attempt to “take back the Mass.” It’s extremely discouraging.

 

[John_Hiner]

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

The Faith is about love. Those who think that they know what this means, but think they can dispense with the teachings and laws of the Church are simply mistaken. What they mistake for love is a shadow of the real thing. However, real love is demanding.

I believe that you are obliged by the command of the Savior to try and speak to the priest and to “regain your brother.” If he refuses to authentically speak with you, then you have recourse, but your first assumption must be that he is a member of the Church who is lost and needs love both in the form of authentic personal concern and – clearly – in the form of instruction or even chastisement.

If you are able to make the commitment to love this priest as he needs, you should follow the Savior’s directions about how to love a brother who offends you:

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Matthew (RSV) 18:15-17.)

For guidance in implementing this procedure, it might be useful to consider the Lay Witness Protocol provided by Catholics United for the Faith at cuf.org/faithfacts/protocol.asp.

I hope that you and this priest become good friends and that together you learn ever more about the depths of love which are so vast that the edifice of the Church is needed to express them to the world. I also hope that you, or someone who has experienced these abuses and has the time to make the required commitment, will have the patience, endurance, and faith needed to press this matter through to the end, where either this priest finds his place in the Church again, or you are loosed of your responsibility to regard him as a brother. Failing to press the matter to one or the other of these outcomes will be short of the standard for love set by the Gospel which the Church has never failed to teach.

“Gloria in altissimis Deo, et super terram pax in hominibus bonae voluntatis.” (Luke (NV) 2:14.)

John Hiner