Heretical ministers

[aball1035]

I just read this today…

Pope Leo XIII answers clearly and with solemn authority:

“Concerning the mind or intention, inasmuch as it is in itself something internal, the Church does not pass judgment; but in so far as it is externally manifested, she is bound to judge of it. Now, if in order to effect and confer a Sacrament a person has seriously and correctly used the due matter and form, he is for that very reason presumed to have intended to do what the Church does. It is on this principle that the doctrine is solidly founded which holds as a true Sacrament that which is conferred by the ministry of a heretic or of a non-baptized person, as long as it is conferred in the Catholic rite.”

Now does this mean that a heretical priest can give a valid Body and Blood? Or can a heretical bishop validly ordain new priests? It’s by ‘solemn authority’, so it’s required for belief right?

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Unless it is manifest that the minister does not intend to do what the Church does it is presumed that the confection of the sacrament is valid. There are, however, exceptions to this – those sacraments that require jurisdiction (matrimony and confession). Those two cannot be validly celebrated by a “heretic minister.”

Deacon Ed

 

[maurin]

Unless it is manifest that the minister does not intend to do what the Church does it is presumed that the confection of the sacrament is valid. There are, however, exceptions to this – those sacraments that require jurisdiction (matrimony and confession). Those two cannot be validly celebrated by a “heretic minister.”

Deacon Ed

at least your consistent, Deacon.

In the danger of imminent death a validly ordained Priest, even if his faculties are suspended, may licitly absolve one of his sins.

One would expect a complete answer. Please feel free to complete mine.

 

[Spirithound]

Unless it is manifest that the minister does not intend to do what the Church does it is presumed that the confection of the sacrament is valid. There are, however, exceptions to this – those sacraments that require jurisdiction (matrimony and confession). Those two cannot be validly celebrated by a “heretic minister.”

Deacon Ed

Now my further question is whether the minister’s behaviour outside of the actual confection of the sacrament could/should be considered? For example, if it is well-known that a particular priest does not believe in transubstantiation?

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Now my further question is whether the minister’s behaviour outside of the actual confection of the sacrament could/should be considered? For example, if it is well-known that a particular priest does not believe in transubstantiation?

Unless the priest makes it known that he does not intend to confect the Eucharist his belief is irrelevant since the Church teaches that the mere action is sufficient to intend to do what the Church intends. One way to think of this is the ancient teaching “ecclesia supplet” – the Church supplies what is missing.

Deacon Ed

 

[Deacon_Ed]

at least your consistent, Deacon.

In the danger of imminent death a validly ordained Priest, even if his faculties are suspended, may licitly absolve one of his sins.

One would expect a complete answer. Please feel free to complete mine.

You are correct – in cases where one is dying a suspended, laicized or heretical priest may (in fact, must) hear the confession of the one who is dying. That is the sole exception.

Deacon Ed

 

[aball1035]

what about if a heretical bishop wants to consecrate more priests or bishops? they’re still valid to do things right?

 

[yinekka]

Deacon Ed,

You said, There are, however, exceptions to this – those sacraments that require jurisdiction (matrimony and confession). Those two cannot be validly celebrated by a “heretic minister.”

In matrimony isn’t it the couple who are the ministers of the sacrament and the priest/deacon the witnesses? Or do you mean that if one of the spouses didn’t have the correct intent when he/she was married the marriage wouldn’t be valid?

Aball, as far as I am aware, a bishop who doesn’t see eye to eye with Rome can validly ordain priests and in fact a bishop in Brazil and one from the Philipines did exactly that.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Deacon Ed,

You said, There are, however, exceptions to this – those sacraments that require jurisdiction (matrimony and confession). Those two cannot be validly celebrated by a “heretic minister.”

In matrimony isn’t it the couple who are the ministers of the sacrament and the priest/deacon the witnesses? Or do you mean that if one of the spouses didn’t have the correct intent when he/she was married the marriage wouldn’t be valid?

According to canonical form there must be a deputed witness for the Church present or the marriage is invalid. This deputation must come from the bishop. This is what keeps wandering priests from coming into a diocese and selling their services so that people can have a wedding wherever and whenever they want.

Marriage and confession require jurisdiction according to canon law. We have to remember that the Church has theology to express our understanding of God and how He works in our lives, and canon law to regulate how the Church operates. They work together and we cannot separate them.

Deacon Ed

 

[Deacon_Ed]

what about if a heretical bishop wants to consecrate more priests or bishops? they’re still valid to do things right?

A heretical bishop can, indeed, ordain priests and bishops. In Roman terminology these priests and bishops would immediately be suspended a divinis meaning that they cannot function with the powers they have been give (or, at least, not function legitimately). Also, anyone ordained a bishop under such circumstances would be excommunicated automatically since there would be no mandate from the pope and, therefore, the action would be illicit.

Deacon Ed