Hermaphrodites

[QuoVadis]

Does anyone know church teaching regarding hermaphrodites? For example, what sex they are if both testes and ovaries are present (which is what happens for true hermaphrodites) and their call to chastity? and if surgery for pseudo hermaphrodites (with both male and female parts, but one is dominant) is okay? I ask because i am in a liberal anthropology class, where hermaphrodites are presented as common as the Johnsons down the street. PLEASE HELP!

 

[puzzleannie]

challenge those teaching the course to prove their assertion that this exceedingly rare medical phenomenon is in fact common, as it is not. a true hermaphrodite suffers from a birth defect in which sex organs of both genders at least partially develop. there is a medical treatment, which is to determine the actual sex of the child (which can now be done much more precisely by DNA testing) and do surgery and hormonal support for the proper development of that gender. The Church has no opposition to proper diagnosis and treatment of such a condition.

what your teachers are probably trying to justify is the much more complex problem of persons who call themselves transgender. these individuals, who are becoming more common for reasons which have not yet been identified, usually suffer from either a hormonal imbalance or psychological problems (or both) which cause gender confusion. They also can and should be assisted with proper therapy which usually involves both hormonal treatment and psychological therapy. they should be assisted by the proper means of medical science to determine their true gender, by DNA testing, and assisted in returning to full health for their gender.

Under no circumstances is mutilating surgical or other treatment allowed to change their actual genetically determined gender. what a person “feels” is not a valid guide to actual gender, since feelings are subjective and can be influenced by disorders.

 

[Ham1]

Find a copy of *Medicine and Christian Morality * by Fr. Thomas J. O’Donnell, SJ. It is an extremely clear guide to Catholic teachings on medical ethics questions and covers virtually every topic that you could possibly imagine. I highly recommend it.

The response by Puzzleannie describes in good detail the teachings of the Church on this matter.

 

[Emeka_Obioji]

To ask after the churches official teaching on hermaphrodites is to ask for the churches teaching on people born blind. Like all deviations from what is considered normal by majority of human civilizations over the history of humanity, the christian answer is to accept it as a cross and to sanctify the situation.

There is nothing evil in hermaphroditism being a product of nature it is good because everything God created is good. Here and now in our epoch it may not be preferred but it is not a bad thing.

On the moral level it is not a sin. i.e. it does not offend God. Though some humans may take offense but who cares!

The hermaphrodite has to struggle like every other person with the grace of God to avoid sin.

On marriage, to begin with marriage is not compulsory, there are many normal persons who have lived happy lives without marriage (including sexual pleasure)

If a hermaphrodite wants to marry, first HS[He-She or he-She or He-she or it] has to find someone else who will agree to marry HS, depending on the role HS wants to play whether as a He or a She.

But as a personal advice I will advice a hermaphrodite to give up marriage as a personal choice just as someone born blind gives up watching movies or someone paralysed from birth gives up marriage, it is not a big deal

 

[Debora123]

Does anyone know church teaching regarding hermaphrodites? For example, what sex they are if both testes and ovaries are present (which is what happens for true hermaphrodites) and their call to chastity? and if surgery for pseudo hermaphrodites (with both male and female parts, but one is dominant) is okay? I ask because i am in a liberal anthropology class, where hermaphrodites are presented as common as the Johnsons down the street. PLEASE HELP!

I don’t see why the Church would have a problem with having corrective surgery done on hermaphrodites.

If the hermaphrodite is genetically a woman (two X chromosomes) but has testicles as well, then removing those testicles would be no different from removing an extra finger. At least that’s the way I see it.

Either way, I’m pretty sure the Church remains silent on this issue. it is a medical issue.

 

[JDuran]

Hello.

I believe there’s bias and lack of knowledge with one of the persons. Personal advice is not needed here, but truth. Why would some one want sexual organs that are not fully developed? True hermaphrodites are rare.

Please go here for more information.

ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=361497&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu=

 

[centurionguard]

I don’t see why the Church would have a problem with having corrective surgery done on hermaphrodites.

If the hermaphrodite is genetically a woman (two X chromosomes) but has testicles as well, then removing those testicles would be no different from removing an extra finger. At least that’s the way I see it.

Either way, I’m pretty sure the Church remains silent on this issue. it is a medical issue.

I have little problem with what your saying except that parents strongly should avoid making that choice for their children born this way no matter how difficult it maybe.

Such people born this way they should make the choice themselves when they are sexually mature adults. Unimaginable as the psycho-sexual situation maybe I surely thank God I wasn’t born with such a heavy cross. My genuine empathy goes out to such people. In numerous centuries and thousands of years in the past I’m sure many people born this way became Eunuchs if their families made the choice for them at birth.

 

[Tenofovir]

This is a little off topic, but related to this thread.

On the subject of gender and gender identity, Norway recently screened a series of tv documentaries where a reporter (with a degree in sociology) spoke to some feminist gender studies advocates who see no differences between men and women except for the plumbing. The Norwegian Gender Paradox is that despite the government pushing engineering jobs on women and nursing jobs on men, these professions are mainly staffed traditionally - women as nurses and men as engineers. Also across the board in all societies the picture is similar although outside of the more gender neutral countries like Sweden, Norway, Holland there is a slight shift of women doing male type activities - i.e. even in more gender restrictive societies. The gender advocates asserted that society forces male children to play with guns and female children to play with dolls, and that despite free attitudes in Norway, there are still cultural prejudices although subtle ones which enforce gender stereotypes. No scientific empirical proof was provided for this contention however.

The interviewer then travelled to see 3 researchers, one in Oxford, another in ?Tyne and another in California. He also spoke to a local Norwegian researcher. All of them had conclusive proof published in peer review journals of gender (sex) differences in behaviour from as early as day 1. Female newborns tend to focus more on faces, while male newborns tend to focus more on objects. As the infant grows up, male infants tend to play more with trucks while female infants tend to prefer dolls, when given both. Men tend to prefer to be alone when under stress, while women in company of other women. In fact there are numerous scientific peer reviewed papers which show that the sexes are different, despite what feminists may want to profess. The show caused a huge debate in Norway and ultimately caused the Norwegian government to cut funding to all gender studies research programs. Also the reason why less gender equal societies have more women doing men’s jobs is that there is a shortage of jobs per se and women tend to get jobs they don’t enjoy but which earn money (eg woman truck driver or computer technician). On the other hand in gender friendly (equal) societies women do prefer working with people (nurse, doctor) while men with machines (engineer, computer scientist). It’s through natural choice and illustrates innate behaviour differences.

 

[JoArtist]

Actually Hermaphrodite is an old term that really isn’t used in the medical field anymore not to mention among those with sex organs of both genders (whether fully formed or not). Now the proper term for these people is Intersex.

 

[Debora123]

I just realised that there’s something extremely wrong with this whole discussion. What we’ve been saying is to look at the DNA to figure out whether the hermaphrodite (intersex) is genetically female or male.

**But they are neither. They have 2 X chromosomes and a Y chromosome.
**
So in that case, do we let them grow up and “pick” what gender they feel they identify with??

Also, below is a very interesting short video on the subject:

Just a few minutes long and very informative.

video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/national-geographic-channel/all-videos/av-7093-7308/ngc-intersex-soldier.html

Any thoughts??

 

[Debora123]

To ask after the churches official teaching on hermaphrodites is to ask for the churches teaching on people born blind. Like all deviations from what is considered normal by majority of human civilizations over the history of humanity, the christian answer is to accept it as a cross and to sanctify the situation.

There is nothing evil in hermaphroditism being a product of nature it is good because everything God created is good. Here and now in our epoch it may not be preferred but it is not a bad thing.

On the moral level it is not a sin. i.e. it does not offend God. Though some humans may take offense but who cares!

The hermaphrodite has to struggle like every other person with the grace of God to avoid sin.

On marriage, to begin with marriage is not compulsory, there are many normal persons who have lived happy lives without marriage (including sexual pleasure)

If a hermaphrodite wants to marry, first HS[He-She or he-She or He-she or it] has to find someone else who will agree to marry HS, depending on the role HS wants to play whether as a He or a She.

But as a personal advice I will advice a hermaphrodite to give up marriage as a personal choice just as someone born blind gives up watching movies or someone paralysed from birth gives up marriage, it is not a big deal

How can you say that??

 

[funinsnow]

How can you say that??

Hermaphrodites are the result of birth defect & as I’m pro-choice posters know my pro-abortion views. With that said, it must be a crime to have sex with hermaphrodite because of their deformity just as it’s a crime to have sex with a retarded person. Hermaphrodites & retarded people can’t consent to sex.

 

[centurionguard]

I just realised that there’s something extremely wrong with this whole discussion. What we’ve been saying is to look at the DNA to figure out whether the hermaphrodite (intersex) is genetically female or male.

**But they are neither. They have 2 X chromosomes and a Y chromosome.
**
So in that case, do we let them grow up and “pick” what gender they feel they identify with??

Also, below is a very interesting short video on the subject:

Just a few minutes long and very informative.

video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/national-geographic-channel/all-videos/av-7093-7308/ngc-intersex-soldier.html

Any thoughts??

This video is also on Youtube. And being only summary video it doesn’t go into much detail about his personal psycho-sexual development during puberty.

As the very short video depicts and fails to elaborate is how he/she got pregnant in the first place. Rather sensationalistic to me because it leaves a tremendous amount of blanks to fill in in speaking about his/her life before he/she joined the military. Surely he/she had previous sexual relations prior to the video. Too much unanswered conjecture in the short video clip to make a more concise rational assessment. Given the fact the video states this person He/She has a womb in the X-Ray. Physiologically how long does it take before a real woman who isn’t mentally handicapped to become self-aware that she is pregnant? Naturally when her monthly cycle no longer follows the norm.

But even with genuine Hermaphrodites who physically display both female and male genitilla, there is often one gender that is psycho-sexually more pronounced or predominate within themselves in studies given the differentiation in Chromosome.

Not by any means an easy topic to delve into without scientific expertise which too can get sketchy. Any wonder why the Church doesn’t get strongly involved in this topic.

 

[Debora123]

This video is also on Youtube. And being only summary video it doesn’t go into much detail about his personal psycho-sexual development during puberty.

As the very short video depicts and fails to elaborate is how he/she got pregnant in the first place. Rather sensationalistic to me because it leaves a tremendous amount of blanks to fill in in speaking about his/her life before he/she joined the military. Surely he/she had previous sexual relations prior to the video. Too much unanswered conjecture in the short video clip to make a more concise rational assessment. Given the fact the video states this person He/She has a womb in the X-Ray. Physiologically how long does it take before a real woman who isn’t mentally handicapped to become self-aware that she is pregnant? Naturally when her monthly cycle no longer follows the norm.

But even with genuine Hermaphrodites who physically display both female and male genitilla, there is often one gender that is psycho-sexually more pronounced or predominate within themselves in studies given the differentiation in Chromosome.

Not by any means an easy topic to delve into without scientific expertise which too can get sketchy. Any wonder why the Church doesn’t get strongly involved in this topic.

It was on you tube but it is from National Geographic… a reliable and respected source.

And what are you talking about getting pregnant?? The man in the video did NOT get pregnant!!