Heterodox priests

[JimR-OCDS]

Let’s keep in mind here that the OP, Robert, is a student.

What he discerns as not being Church teaching from the priest, may be due to his own ignorance on what Church teaching actually is.

The priest should be given the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Too often in our culture, students want to train the teachers.

Jim

 

[saveusfromhell]

I think you meant to address your reply to the OP, but copied mine, which is essentially saying the same thing you’re saying.

Jim

no what you said is

It sounds like this priest is actually telling you what the Church teaches

. below is not church teaching

I think he believes that religion is an important cultural force, but that most of the Christian beliefs are probably inaccurate to some extent ( the personal God, the sonship, heaven and hell , angels and demons, etc).

what pilgrim 1701 said is more apt,
but just because the o/p is a student, does mean they can’t follow a conversation.

 

[SecretGarden]

If he isn’t teaching the word of God correctly especially considering his position, you should contact your local diocese and explain your concern. Being a priest, he is a representative of the church and if he isn’t portraying it accurately, the diocese should be made aware of it. You seem to be a smart student who has a strong spirit of discernment but what about the next student he meets and doesn’t have it. Unknowingly, that other student could learn things that go against the faith. Praying will help but also will making the diocese aware of it. When bringing it up with the diocese, I would write out your concerns and the false teaching he taught you in writing because it makes it more formal and it encourages the diocese to do something. If there are other students who feel the same way, encourage them to write something. Just because he is a priest doesn’t mean he isn’t accountable for his actions.

As a witness of God, your responsibility to speak up but do it out of love. You can write about how wonderful he is and then mention the areas of your concern. That way the dioece will not think you are after him but care enough to want to fix the situation.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

saveusfromhell

no what you said is . below is not church teaching

Read it again. This is what the OP thinks the priests believes, not what the priest is actually teaching.

Unfortunately, we don’t have him here to present his side of the story.

but just because the o/p is a student, does mean they can’t follow a conversation.

The student is still the one needing instruction and can misunderstand what the teacher is saying. In such a case, the student needs to humbly listen and ask questions in order to understand.

Jim

 

[saveusfromhell]

saveusfromhell

The student is still the one needing instruction and can misunderstand what the teacher is saying. In such a case, the student needs to humbly listen and ask questions in order to understand.
Jim

this may or not be true we don’t know.

This is what the OP thinks the priests believes, not what the priest is actually teaching

.
and you know this how?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

this may or not be true we don’t know.

.
and you know this how?

I know this because I read what Robert, the OP posted.

He said “he thinks,” that the priest believes what He Robert, presented.

We don’t know what the priest thinks, because he’s not here to tell us and from Robert’s post and the basis of this thread, he doesn’t know what the priest is actually teaching.

Jim

 

[saveusfromhell]

I know this because I read what Robert, the OP posted.

He said “he thinks,” that the priest believes what He Robert, presented.

We don’t know what the priest thinks, because he’s not here to tell us and from Robert’s post and the basis of this thread, he doesn’t know what the priest is actually teaching.

Jim

then if you know how to read i suggest you read my last post again. seeing as you quoted my post and edited it to give it a different meaning, the question was how have you decided what the priest actualy said

This is what the OP thinks the priests believes, not what the priest is actually teaching

 

[saveusfromhell]

I know this because I read what Robert, the OP posted.

He said “he thinks,” that the priest believes what He Robert, presented.

We don’t know what the priest thinks, because he’s not here to tell us and from Robert’s post and the basis of this thread, he doesn’t know what the priest is actually teaching.

Jim

yes but that is not what you posted, maybe if you read what you post it would help.
you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions even in this reply.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

yes but that is not what you posted, maybe if you read what you post it would help.
you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions even in this reply.

Well, excuse me, but I’m not going to continue to argue with you about what the OP posted, nor defend what I posted in reply.

That being said, I stand by what I posted and my only goal was to help answer Robert’s question, as best I could.

God Bless
Jim

 

[clem456]

Talk to the priest some more. Talk to other priest. It is sometimes difficult for even lifelong Catholics to wrap their minds around the Church’s method of scripture interpretation.
For ex…The bible is not just a history, but that doesn’t mean there’s not historical elements. It’s the innerrant word of God, but the same situations are not handled today the way God told the Isaelites to handle them in the OT.

The priest should get the benefit of the doubt on a Catholic internet forum, especially since he is not here to give his view of complex questions.
The most likely possibility here is the OP is learning the Church’s method of scripture interpretation, and does not yet have a handle on it.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Well, excuse me, but I’m not going to continue to argue with you about what the OP posted, nor defend what I posted in reply.
God Bless
Jim

Great:thumbsup:

 

[Robert_Caritas]

To prevent further argument I’ll try to clarify the situation a bit. The priest in question never strays from Church teaching in his homilies, at least from my own perspective. He stays within what I consider an orthodox Catholic points of view of social matters and matters of everyday life. He has a Phd, so I think that he is aware of these things.

I also have to say that I did go out on a limb in listing which beliefs he ascribes to or not. He never gave me such a list. I’m sorry, it was careless of me.

I ran into a problem with this priest specifically when I asked for advice about prayer. In other times he had seemed a bit heterodox, but it did not worry me. In this case he said some things that struck me as really being wrong. In particular at some point he asked me where I got my notion of God from, and when I told him the Bible, he told me to rely on my own experience. He also told me to be careful when taking advice on prayer from the saints (St Ignatius and the Church fathers), as they lived in a different historical context.

I don’t want to condemn him too harshly, but I think what I mentioned seems harmful enough. I would also like to insist that he is probably not harming anyone with his homilies. I think that he respects the Church as an institution.

Also, I appreciate the other advice that I have received, and I will think about it and answer a bit later.

Regards and thanks,
Robert

 

[benjammin]

To prevent further argument I’ll try to clarify the situation a bit. The priest in question never strays from Church teaching in his homilies, at least from my own perspective. He stays within what I consider an orthodox Catholic points of view of social matters and matters of everyday life. He has a Phd, so I think that he is aware of these things.

I also have to say that I did go out on a limb in listing which beliefs he ascribes to or not. He never gave me such a list. I’m sorry, it was careless of me.

I ran into a problem with this priest specifically when I asked for advice about prayer. In other times he had seemed a bit heterodox, but it did not worry me. In this case he said some things that struck me as really being wrong. In particular at some point he asked me where I got my notion of God from, and when I told him the Bible, he told me to rely on my own experience. He also told me to be careful when taking advice on prayer from the saints (St Ignatius and the Church fathers), as they lived in a different historical context.

I don’t want to condemn him too harshly, but I think what I mentioned seems harmful enough. I would also like to insist that he is probably not harming anyone with his homilies. I think that he respects the Church as an institution.

Also, I appreciate the other advice that I have received, and I will think about it and answer a bit later.

Regards and thanks,

Robert

You said he was from Africa right? Maybe there is a bit of a language barrier. I know one of the Nuns that helped with our Newman Center was from Kenya. While she was well spoken, she had a little trouble with some parts of our language because she learned British English in Kenya and sometimes was a litte too formal or informal. I don’t know where your priest comes from, but maybe this could be a consideration

 

[Della]

To prevent further argument I’ll try to clarify the situation a bit. The priest in question never strays from Church teaching in his homilies, at least from my own perspective. He stays within what I consider an orthodox Catholic points of view of social matters and matters of everyday life. He has a Phd, so I think that he is aware of these things.

I also have to say that I did go out on a limb in listing which beliefs he ascribes to or not. He never gave me such a list. I’m sorry, it was careless of me.

I ran into a problem with this priest specifically when I asked for advice about prayer. In other times he had seemed a bit heterodox, but it did not worry me. In this case he said some things that struck me as really being wrong. In particular at some point he asked me where I got my notion of God from, and when I told him the Bible, he told me to rely on my own experience. He also told me to be careful when taking advice on prayer from the saints (St Ignatius and the Church fathers), as they lived in a different historical context.

I don’t want to condemn him too harshly, but I think what I mentioned seems harmful enough. I would also like to insist that he is probably not harming anyone with his homilies. I think that he respects the Church as an institution.

Also, I appreciate the other advice that I have received, and I will think about it and answer a bit later.

Regards and thanks,

Robert

Well, when it comes to matters of prayer, it might be better to ask a religious brother or seek out a spiritual director. Priests aren’t necessarily schooled in prayer techniques. He may only have been trying to keep you from being overly zealous and going into an area too deep for you too soon in your spiritual walk. It’s hard to explain in a couple of sentences what prayer methods are best for any one person. I think you caught him with a question he couldn’t answer well under the circumstances. If he is preaching orthodox teaching, I wouldn’t worry about these comments of his.

It’s true that many moderns don’t have the historical/cultural context in which to place the writings of the saints. So learning about that before delving into any spirituality might be useful for you. And we all need to see God within orthodoxy, but he probably wanted you to develop your own relationship with God rather than forcing God into preconceived images that might limit how God wishes to reveal himself to you. Again, this takes maturity and learning, something this particular priest cannot provide nor should he be expected to. He’d have to express some truly heterodox things in order to be questioned. Your best bet is to seek out a spiritual director instead of catching any one priest on the hop with such questions.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

To prevent further argument I’ll try to clarify the situation a bit. The priest in question never strays from Church teaching in his homilies, at least from my own perspective. He stays within what I consider an orthodox Catholic points of view of social matters and matters of everyday life. He has a Phd, so I think that he is aware of these things.

I also have to say that I did go out on a limb in listing which beliefs he ascribes to or not. He never gave me such a list. I’m sorry, it was careless of me.

I ran into a problem with this priest specifically when I asked for advice about prayer. In other times he had seemed a bit heterodox, but it did not worry me. In this case he said some things that struck me as really being wrong. In particular at some point he asked me where I got my notion of God from, and when I told him the Bible, he told me to rely on my own experience. He also told me to be careful when taking advice on prayer from the saints (St Ignatius and the Church fathers), as they lived in a different historical context.

I don’t want to condemn him too harshly, but I think what I mentioned seems harmful enough. I would also like to insist that he is probably not harming anyone with his homilies. I think that he respects the Church as an institution.

Also, I appreciate the other advice that I have received, and I will think about it and answer a bit later.

Regards and thanks,

Robert

Well from what you wrote here, he’s correct.

Faith comes from God, it is his gift. It is the revelation of Himself, however that may happen. God can reveal himself through Scripture as he often does, but through other people and experiences as well. In all, it will be a revelation of divine love and the experience of God in your life will be the grace that will transform you…
You’re priest is wise in telling you to experience God in your life, rather than be Sola Scriptura when it comes to the experience of faith.

Also, he is correct in advising you to be careful what you read about the Saints, for they did live in very different times than we do. He’s telling you to understand them in that context, which is why reading about the saints through the excellent writers we have in the Church, will provide you with the proper context.

Fr Dubey, wrote wonderfully about St Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross and presents their teaching in an easy way for contemporary minds to comprehend more correctly.

That all being said, if you do not have trust in this priest, then treat him with respect and wait for the Lord to bring another into your life.

However, it may also be true that the Lord brought this priest into your life for a reason, which will help you grow spiritually.

Bottom line, pray on it.

In Christ Jesus
Jim

 

[Pilgrim1701]

I think you meant to address your reply to the OP, but copied mine, which is essentially saying the same thing you’re saying.

Jim

No Jim, I was agreeing with your post and adding a few thoughts of my own. Maybe a ‘+1’ would have been in order. My comments weren’t directed to you.

The OP has clarified the issues somewhat, and I would think the priests advice is sound.
Like you were saying about the great Carmelite doctors of the Church, when you read that stuff it is clearly directed to religious members of the order, and a lot of it needs contextualising and explaining if you were to apply it in a ‘lay’ way of life.

 

[Robert_Caritas]

I have received some really helpful advice here, and it hits the nail on the head with some problems I’ve been having. I really want to learn more about prayer and get some guidance. I am currently looking for a spiritual director. I’m not too sure how to look for one, but I’m going to get in touch with a nearby parish to see if they know.

It’s nice to see that there was some good in what my campus priest told me, and this has given me some ideas how to deal with the situation in the future. I should precise that I used some very soft words when repeating some of the things that had disturbed me. I think it is a little worse than I made it out to be. In any case, I have some ideas of what to do according to how the situation goes on. Thanks everyone for that.

Jim, I looked up on Amazon the Fr Dubey book, it looks good. On another thread someone suggested The Ways of Mental Prayer by a certain Reverend Lehodey. I’m currently looking for a book to guide me in my prayer practice, but I consider myself a beginner and these seem quite deep for introduction books. Maybe I could just read parts of them. Does anyone have any suggestions on this matter?

Regards,
Robert

 

[Della]

Lectio Divina is a very good method for delving into meditation and contemplation. I’d start with the daily Mass readings as a base since that would ground you in the liturgy of the Church in your prayer life. Also, praying Morning and Evening Prayer from the Liturgy of the Hours, which comes in two forms for lay people: Christian Prayer and Shorter Christian Prayer. It’s also online at: DivineOffice.org.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I have received some really helpful advice here, and it hits the nail on the head with some problems I’ve been having. I really want to learn more about prayer and get some guidance. I am currently looking for a spiritual director. I’m not too sure how to look for one, but I’m going to get in touch with a nearby parish to see if they know.

It’s nice to see that there was some good in what my campus priest told me, and this has given me some ideas how to deal with the situation in the future. I should precise that I used some very soft words when repeating some of the things that had disturbed me. I think it is a little worse than I made it out to be. In any case, I have some ideas of what to do according to how the situation goes on. Thanks everyone for that.

Jim, I looked up on Amazon the Fr Dubey book, it looks good. On another thread someone suggested The Ways of Mental Prayer by a certain Reverend Lehodey. I’m currently looking for a book to guide me in my prayer practice, but I consider myself a beginner and these seem quite deep for introduction books. Maybe I could just read parts of them. Does anyone have any suggestions on this matter?

Regards,
Robert

This is the path toward spiritual growth, which you are now on. It is the Holy Spirit calling you to this path.

I would highly recommend the book, “Open Mind Open Heart,” by Fr Thomas Keating.

Be open to Christ and he’ll send you the necessary tools to bring you closer to him.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Robert_Caritas]

Lectio Divina is a very good method for delving into meditation and contemplation. I’d start with the daily Mass readings as a base since that would ground you in the liturgy of the Church in your prayer life. Also, praying Morning and Evening Prayer from the Liturgy of the Hours, which comes in two forms for lay people: Christian Prayer and Shorter Christian Prayer. It’s also online at: DivineOffice.org.

Thanks, this is a great idea. And Jim, I’ll have a look at the book you’re suggesting, but I think that I’m looking for something more traditional to start with.

Best,

Robert