Hey everyone.

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howgoyoufar

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My name’s Matt, and I just want to have a thread to discuss well…the idea of Christianity. I’m an atheist, I was Christian until sophmore year of high school, I’ve read the bible numerous times, I go to church three times a week still, so I don’t need any education of the doctrines of the church or anything like that. I know that whenever an atheist and a theist try and discuss religion, things often get out of hand very quickly, and it ends up with the atheist saying “You’re a brainwashed idiot! How do you even figure out how to put your pants on in the morning?!” and the theist saying “You’re the Devil! You deserve to burn in hell for hating God!”
Obviously, both of those things are ridiculous to say. I’m not here to make anyone mad, I just want to have a nice, civilized discussion. I do NOT think that because you believe in something I don’t that you are any less intelligent than I am, or of a less moral stature, or anything else, so please don’t assume that about me.

However, I won’t talk to/try and debate you unless you have a solid understanding of logic and of what logical fallacies are, because I don’t want to spend the time of explaining them to you. A quick wikipedia/google search can get you going, they’re good things to know!

So for my first question…What attributes, specifically, do you give to God? I obviously won’t be able to respond to everyone on this because there will be numerous answers, but I’ll give it a shot. 🙂

Peace,
Matt:thumbsup:
 
howgoyoufar said:
So for my first question…What attributes, specifically, do you give to God? I obviously won’t be able to respond to everyone on this because there will be numerous answers, but I’ll give it a shot. 🙂
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First I do not believe we have the human capacity to understand exactly how God came about and so forth but to answer your question I would say the main attribute I give to God is the reason why.

The reason why everything exist is because of God, the reason for intelligent life is because of God in the most simple view God is the mover of all things.
 
God is not in our image, we are in His Image. God is Perfect. Hence, He is Holy, Just, Loving, Merciful, Wise, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Infinite, Eternal, Unchangeable, Unmoveable, and Good. Anything imperfect is not found in Him.
 
Eucharisted said:
God is not in our image, we are in His Image. God is Perfect. Hence, He is Holy, Just, Loving, Merciful, Wise, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent. Anything imperfect is not found in Him.
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God is perfect?
So sending everyone he doesn’t like to hell is perfect? Getting people to kill people in his name, is perfect?
He’s jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
I guess thats what perfection is to you.
 
LXA said:
God is perfect?
So sending everyone he doesn’t like to hell is perfect? Getting people to kill people in his name, is perfect?
He’s jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
I guess thats what perfection is to you.
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Troll.
 
Cool, you guys gave me a bunch to work with. 🙂

Firstly, Texan. You say God is the ‘mover’ of all things. I have two questions to ask. 1) Do you believe that God is the primary mover because all things must have a creator? 2) Do you have any tangible proof for you beliefs of God, or do you come about it through faith?

Eucharist- Are you familiar with the logical contradictions that stem from God being Omnipotent and Omnisicient?

Geo- So you believe that your character traits have been given to you by God, not that they have developed because of your parents teachings and your life experiences?

Thanks for the replies. If anyone else replied while I was…replying, sorry but I can’t get to you! You can PM me though if anyone wants to discuss more 🙂
 
howgoyoufar said:
Firstly, Texan. You say God is the ‘mover’ of all things. I have two questions to ask. 1) Do you believe that God is the primary mover because all things must have a creator? 2) Do you have any tangible proof for you beliefs of God, or do you come about it through faith?
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  1. Yes I believe God is the primary mover of all things - it is true that when men build something we must have material and perhaps even tools to do such - but this is not the case for a creator - we as men do not create a building. Even through our own inventions they are simply discoveries mixed with intelligence.
I believe life in the most simplest form must be created by a creator who has always been because like you said above all things must have a creator and the ability to understand God as our sole creator cannot be understood in full today because God is outside of our dimension of time and space.
  1. I would say yes to both - I believe in God through my own faith likewise I believe we do in fact have tangible proof for my beliefs in God.
tangible proof:

Science often likes to point out the similarities through a theory they call evolution to connect man to ape and so forth… Well I believe their theory of evolution is false but I do believe they can make those connections because we do in fact all come from one creator which many refer to as God and if God is in fact our sole creator than we must likewise all come from the same God stuff.
 
My Gosh!

With a question like that I will simply post what the Bible says in Romans 1:20. If you disagree with the Bible, then you can take it directly to god.

It is written:

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the World are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse;”

Richard
 
  1. Correct, all things must have a creator. So do you just believe that God is an exception to this? In order to ‘exist’, God must obey the laws of our universe, therefore he also must have a creator. Unless, of course, the universe is cyclic (which it probably is), in which case God would have created nothing.
  2. Can you explain, in scientific terms, why you do not accept the theory of evolution? And I do hope you understand the definition of a scientific theory…it is very different from the definition most people have given to the word.
    Also, what is “God stuff”?
p.s.- LXA, I know you aren’t a troll. 🙂
 
howgoyoufar said:
Geo- So you believe that your character traits have been given to you by God, not that they have developed because of your parents teachings and your life experiences?
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Well, the question that you had asked was about attributes.

I have been sent from place to place by God, on four different occasions. Its a kind of recreation event, like Jesus said, descending from heaven, born anew…

As far as His attributes, or the specifics of things that he has done, I have not asked Him. Perhaps you will one day. Answers to your questions might be fascinating…
 
geometer said:
Well, the question that you had asked was about attributes.

I have been sent from place to place by God, on four different occasions. Its a kind of recreation event, like Jesus said, descending from heaven, born anew…

As far as His attributes, or the specifics of things that he has done, I have not asked Him. Perhaps you will one day. Answers to your questions might be fascinating…
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How do you know that God wasn’t your subconcious ‘sending’ you to those places?

I already did ‘ask’ God about his attributes, and I used to pray quite a bit. That is until I realized the futile nature of prayer…even if God does exist.
 
howgoyoufar said:
I already did ‘ask’ God about his attributes, and I used to pray quite a bit. That is until I realized the futile nature of prayer…even if God does exist.
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He can help you get what you need to accomplish is wonderful ways. You know if everyone would learn to call on God to be sent from place to place, we would no longer need to burn gasoline. Yeshua is the hebrew word which is the solution to transportation.

Very few today do travel this way, and Jesus said it was the same in his time.
 
howgoyoufar said:
  1. Correct, all things must have a creator.
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Let me clarify - all things that we know exist must have a creator
howgoyoufar said:
So do you just believe that God is an exception to this?
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My faith allows me to believe in just one God - I cannot explain the existence of God and or how He came about.
howgoyoufar said:
In order to ‘exist’, God must obey the laws of our universe, therefore he also must have a creator.
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You said in order for God to exist - God must obey the laws of our universe - my issue with that is that God is outside of not only our universe but our dimension of time and space - I would say that in order for God to exist God must obey the laws of his own dimension of time and space which we believe has always existed.

Likewise everything within our own universe does in fact obey the laws of this universe set forth - for if one thing went wrong, or goes wrong we simply would cease to exist.
howgoyoufar said:
Unless, of course, the universe is cyclic (which it probably is), in which case God would have created nothing.
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We still must give an answer for the laws of our universe and all the things unknown.
 
howgoyoufar said:
  1. Can you explain, in scientific terms, why you do not accept the theory of evolution?
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No but I can tell you why I do not accept evolution as fact:

There is no proof that one kind comes from another
howgoyoufar said:
And I do hope you understand the definition of a scientific theory…it is very different from the definition most people have given to the word.
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I believe I do - perhaps you should give a defintion
howgoyoufar said:
Also, what is “God stuff”?
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The stuff that connects us to other things
 
Hey guys, I have to take a break and go to town/get dinner/ make a phone call but I should be back by 9.

But Texan…It hasn’t been proven that anything exists outside of our universe, so I can’t really take your claim seriously. It’s like arguing that God exists in Narnia, so the rules don’t apply. Do you get what I mean?
 
Things that exist in our universe are limited. If you look at a cell and go smaller and look at an organelle and go smaller and look at a molecule and go smaller and look at an atom and go smaller and look at an electron and so on and so forth, eventually you will reach the basic unit of materials, called a blank length. You cannot go smaller than that, because the universe is limited and thus everything within it is limited. Since God exists outside of the universe it must follow that he COULD be unlimited because he does not have the same constraints as us. Thus he could have no beginning and no end, as the bible states.
 
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