Hi I found this on a website and need to refute this

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Hi,

I found this on a website it said this "Upon leaving the Church, it is still part of the Mass to sing the closing Hymn. "

The Recessional is not a part of Mass. I am wanting to challenge this on this parish’s website, they are a Cathedral Church for a diocese.

I need source documents that say that the Recessional or Closing Hymn is NOT a part of the Mass. I have looked through GIRM and have found no mention of the Recessional being a part of the Mass.

“Sing to the Lord” had something about the recessional not being a part of the Mass, but am not sure if this is considered a “proper” liturgical source document.

How would you construct the rebuttal to this?

Thanks, and no this is not homework.
 
Turtle_Turtle said:
Hi,

I found this on a website it said this "Upon leaving the Church, it is still part of the Mass to sing the closing Hymn. "

The Recessional is not a part of Mass. I am wanting to challenge this on this parish’s website, they are a Cathedral Church for a diocese.

I need source documents that say that the Recessional or Closing Hymn is NOT a part of the Mass. I have looked through GIRM and have found no mention of the Recessional being a part of the Mass.

“Sing to the Lord” had something about the recessional not being a part of the Mass, but am not sure if this is considered a “proper” liturgical source document.

How would you construct the rebuttal to this?

Thanks, and no this is not homework.
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I’m not sure why you would bother constructing a rebuttal to this, but the obvious thing that comes to mind is that the Priest says “The Mass is ended, go in peace…” before the recessional is sung.
 
The recessional piece, whatever it may be, is certainly not part of Mass. The only sung pieces which are “part of Mass” are the sung Ordinary parts and the sung Propers and orations, or, if a parish is so inclined, the hymns which replace (:mad:) the Propers.

Look in the Roman Missal and there is no such thing as a “closing hymn” or “recessional piece.” That seems proof enough.
 
YoungTradCath said:
The recessional piece, whatever it may be, is certainly not part of Mass. The only sung pieces which are “part of Mass” are the sung Ordinary parts and the sung Propers and orations, or, if a parish is so inclined, the hymns which replace (:mad:) the Propers.

Look in the Roman Missal and there is no such thing as a “closing hymn” or “recessional piece.” That seems proof enough.
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IMO as well as several others in this diocese, believe that there are many liturgical abberrations that are permitted by the Bishop of this diocese. I do not think that noting an absence of the dicussion of the recessional hymn in the GIRM is going to be good enough “proof.”

I know that this is incorrect. You know this is incorrect, but I think they will want source documents on this one.

Thanks.
 
mini_me640 said:
I’m not sure why you would bother constructing a rebuttal to this, but the obvious thing that comes to mind is that the Priest says “The Mass is ended, go in peace…” before the recessional is sung.
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Yes, okay yeah I thought of that.

Thanks. perhaps I can enlarge on this.
 
Turtle_Turtle said:
Ummm, that’s a good source, but I was hoping for something more of a more authortative document like a document from Rome or something of that other. 😃

However, I will use it in my email to this parish.
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From the statement of Fr. Bob:

The answer for this question:
When I was growing up, the Sisters and priests always told us to wait until the recessional hymn was finished before we walked out of church. Today this “rule” seems much laxer. Many people need to leave to get children who are in faith formation classes or nursery, get home as soon as possible as their sick loved ones need care, they have a hard time walking and need extra time exiting the church, or a host of other reasons. I’m just happy they came to church to worship the Lord in community. So, I don’t care if people leave before the last hymn is sung. - Fr. Bob

thestmaryparish.org/catholicqa.htm

In my research there is no Law in the Church that we must leave only after the recessional hymn. My personal opinion, if the priest leave, then it is also the time we leave.
 
Turtle_Turtle said:
Ummm, that’s a good source, but I was hoping for something more of a more authortative document like a document from Rome or something of that other. 😃

However, I will use it in my email to this parish.
Click to expand...
See this from the Holy See:1. The Rites of Conclusion in the Two Forms of the Mass of Roman Rite
1.1 … Hence, the role of the priests consists in giving brief notices to the faithful, in greeting them with the liturgical formula “Dominus vobiscum” and in blessing them with a simple or solemn formula. If there is no deacon, the priest also pronounces the formula of dismissal “Ite, missa est”[2]. The Rites end with the kissing of the altar and with a profound bow before it, as at the beginning of the Mass.
vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/details/ns_lit_doc_20100422_sac-riti-conclusione_en.html
 
Logistically speaking, leaving before the final hymn is over creates problems. The priest, servers, etc. (at least in my experience) process out of the church, and the hymn gives them time to leave in an orderly fashion. It’s harder to do that with a bunch of people milling around in the aisles and clogging the doorway.

The problem your parish may be trying to address is people leaving immediately after communion.
 
Dhugz said:
From the statement of Fr. Bob:

The answer for this question:
When I was growing up, the Sisters and priests always told us to wait until the recessional hymn was finished before we walked out of church. Today this “rule” seems much laxer. Many people need to leave to get children who are in faith formation classes or nursery, get home as soon as possible as their sick loved ones need care, they have a hard time walking and need extra time exiting the church, or a host of other reasons. I’m just happy they came to church to worship the Lord in community. So, I don’t care if people leave before the last hymn is sung. - Fr. Bob

thestmaryparish.org/catholicqa.htm

In my research there is no Law in the Church that we must leave only after the recessional hymn. My personal opinion, if the priest leave, then it is also the time we leave.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much. 🙂
 
Vico said:
See this from the Holy See:1. The Rites of Conclusion in the Two Forms of the Mass of Roman Rite
1.1 … Hence, the role of the priests consists in giving brief notices to the faithful, in greeting them with the liturgical formula “Dominus vobiscum” and in blessing them with a simple or solemn formula. If there is no deacon, the priest also pronounces the formula of dismissal “Ite, missa est”[2]. The Rites end with the kissing of the altar and with a profound bow before it, as at the beginning of the Mass.
vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/details/ns_lit_doc_20100422_sac-riti-conclusione_en.html
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Beautiful, this is what I am looking for. Thank you so much. Can’t get any higher than the Vatican, hee hee. 😃
 
Fortiori said:
Logistically speaking, leaving before the final hymn is over creates problems. The priest, servers, etc. (at least in my experience) process out of the church, and the hymn gives them time to leave in an orderly fashion. It’s harder to do that with a bunch of people milling around in the aisles and clogging the doorway.

The problem your parish may be trying to address is people leaving immediately after communion.
Click to expand...
It’s not my parish, it is one of my friend’s parish. Yes, but still the problem I had with the parish is that it said that the RECESSIONAL is part of the Mass. Understandable for some out of the way country Catholic Church, but not a Cathedral Church of any diocese. They ought to know better.
 
Turtle_Turtle said:
It’s not my parish, it is one of my friend’s parish. Yes, but still the problem I had with the parish is that it said that the RECESSIONAL is part of the Mass. Understandable for some out of the way country Catholic Church, but not a Cathedral Church of any diocese. They ought to know better.
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Why are you making this your business? A breezily written webpage about manners at Mass does not have to be written with any sort of legalistic precision. Although you are technically correct, the formal recession of the priest and ministers and its accompanying hymn is functionally a part of the liturgy as far as most people are concerned. If you just said, “Maybe I should point this issue out to the webmaster; he might want to reword it,” then that would be fine, but your apparent and sudden “need to refute” this innocent, harmless laxity of language, and to have the “proof” to do so, bespeaks the kind of hyperlegalist kibitzing that no one enjoys. Do yourself a favor and hold off for, say, a month before clicking “send” on your email. No kittens will be harmed while you wait, and you might well change your mind about the crushing necessity and overwhelming urgency of “refuting” this error – thereby sparing yourself some embarrassment and your victim some annoyance.

Just a tip . . . based on direct personal experience, by the way. 🙂
 
MarkThompson said:
Why are you making this your business? A breezily written webpage about manners at Mass does not have to be written with any sort of legalistic precision. Although you are technically correct, the formal recession of the priest and ministers and its accompanying hymn is functionally a part of the liturgy as far as most people are concerned. If you just said, “Maybe I should point this issue out to the webmaster; he might want to reword it,” then that would be fine, but your apparent and sudden “need to refute” this innocent, harmless laxity of language, and to have the “proof” to do so, bespeaks the kind of hyperlegalist kibitzing that no one enjoys. Do yourself a favor and hold off for, say, a month before clicking “send” on your email. No kittens will be harmed while you wait, and you might well change your mind about the crushing necessity and overwhelming urgency of “refuting” this error – thereby sparing yourself some embarrassment and your victim some annoyance.

Just a tip . . . based on direct personal experience, by the way. 🙂
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Understandable.

I was going to email the webmaster, but wanted source documents to go with the email. I think it would be better if my friend actually emailed this parish as this is not my parish.
 
Turtle_Turtle said:
Hi,

I found this on a website it said this "Upon leaving the Church, it is still part of the Mass to sing the closing Hymn. "

The Recessional is not a part of Mass. I am wanting to challenge this on this parish’s website, they are a Cathedral Church for a diocese.

I need source documents that say that the Recessional or Closing Hymn is NOT a part of the Mass. I have looked through GIRM and have found no mention of the Recessional being a part of the Mass.

“Sing to the Lord” had something about the recessional not being a part of the Mass, but am not sure if this is considered a “proper” liturgical source document.

How would you construct the rebuttal to this?

Thanks, and no this is not homework.
Click to expand...
Simply write to the diocesian website contact stating your claim but they may well just ignore it because they may feel it hardle matters but you can try. I
 
To me, leaving Mass without a Recessional is like getting your car washed and not drying it off.

Sounds like someone just wants to argue. 🤷
 
Whether it is obligatory or not why wouldn’t you stay for the hymn if you had no good reason? I mean if you went to someones house would you leave without at least saying goodbye?
 
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