Hi, I'm an atheist - am i welcome?

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Welcome to CAF!

For what it’s worth, I say come on over, knock yourself out, be happy, and hopefully you’ll join the winning team! ;);););)😉
 
Welcome. Yes, you are welcome.

Feel free to question away, that’s what an apologetics forum is all about.

I suspect that you’ve come here for one of two reasons:
  1. To convince us here of your (non) belief(s).
or
  1. To maybe open yourself up to the possibility that there is a God, that he loves you, and that you maybe want to learn something about him or be convinced of him.
I would certainly hope and pray for #2 (no puns intended here, folks :eek:)

Stick around, investigate all the sub-forums, and ask anything you’d like about Christianity and Catholocism.
 
Hi all of you

I just came across this site and thought i would introduce myself as i am sure you are open to everyone on here. So i am atheist, and have reading a few of your threads…
With regard to the sinful nature of today’s world, firstly throughout history, there has always been evil and sin, even in the bible, its just in our faces a whole lot more these days with this age of information.
Secondly i don’t believe that goodness is heavenly, i think it is natural and engrained in every one of us, so i don’t follow any rule book (commandments) to tell me how to be a good person. I do the best i can, i don’t claim to have the truth which is something that every single religion does do, which allows for prejudice and intolerance as everybody fights for whose ‘book’ or ‘god’ is the right ‘book’ or ‘god’. It really is a human need (and a great human flaw) to need to be right, to have comfort that there is life after death…maybe they need to focus more on the life we have down here …
And lastly, if there is a God up there,i really don’t think he is the ego-centric guy that man has made him out to be…demanding constant gratification and worship…so i think that he would look at a christian, or a muslim or an atheist like me as just people, subject to our social surroundings and what is normal in their culture.
This is my thoughts anyway…unfortunately a book written by us flawed humans a long time ago ‘the bible’ is not enough for me to believe in something so huge…there are LOTS of these books around, and everyone fighting for whose is right…is ridiculous to me.
So thats a few things off my chest!!!

and also, i have found this quotation from the bible a bit bizarre

“Thus saith the LORD of
hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him
in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly
destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman,
… infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.”
(I
Samuel 15:2-3)

‘No matter how one can justify
possible crimes from adults, suckling infants have no means of
acting out crimes. And what evil against God could the animals
have possibly performed? Only an evil entity could kill innocent
infants and animals, no matter what their parents and owners may
have done.’
Sure - they even let me in, so I know they aren’t picky 🙂
 
Hi all,
Thanks for all the welcomes. As atheist topics seem to be ‘banned’ on the forum, i am happy that i have been allowed to stay!
1)
Maybe i should explain a little about why i am on here. I have grown up in Ireland, a VERY catholic nation indeed, therefore i have seen first hand the effects on my country. Yes i went to school every day, had nice teachers, and teachers i can only describe as evil…who happened to be nuns…beating kids for simple things like not playing a piano correctly etc…i won’t go on to discuss the issue with priests here in Ireland because the whole situation is deplorable.I have a few Catholic friends who say, well yes there are paedophiles everywhere, not only priests…however priests are supposed to be GOOD, GODLIKE, people you can turn to and trust… especially since they have much power and status here. I cannot tell you how many cases are happening in every county…and of course the Pope is doing a great job of punishing these evil men. (hint the sarcasm)
As much as you guys seem to really know your stuff with regard to the Bible, at the end of the day, it is a book written by humans, so HOW can you know you are right, i think all any of us can say is that we are agnostic - NOBODY REALLY KNOWS!!! Therefore for me, i have to go on what evidence i have.
I know many catholic people who are at church every Sunday, who pray for people when they are sick, and claim that they live good lives. The same people gossip and complain outside the church about various unfortunate people, have their dogs taken from them by the ISPCA because they were maltreated or starved, put the fear of God into their children to make them go to bed at night, and keep secrets about the priests who abused them as children. These poor people are closed, intolerant, uneducated and actually sad people. I don’t go to church, i don’t pray, but if someone i know is sick i go visit them and make them something to eat, i am as kind as possible be to my partner and our Irish setter ‘Pepper’, i cannot bear the thought of anyone hurting an animal (even if they have souls are not) …they are sentient creatures with their own personalities and fears. I try to do right by people, and try not to judge people when they do something i do not agree with. And how have i learned these traits …my parents, not from God, but from the way they have brought up my 6 siblings and i - to have respect for every living creature, and to try to find compassion even for those who anger you ( although i must say meditation has really helped me with feeling compassion towards people i feel are cruel) And this is true of my partner who grew up without religion, or any friends i have who are atheist - good decent open non-judgemental people.
4)
What about when religion justifies things like: the killing of innocent children because their bad behaviour leads parents to believe they are possessed by some evil spirit…when in fact all they need is proper parenting!
Going back to the story of Amalek…when the Lord says:I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel. …fair enough, but i thought we are meant to forgive? This is opening the door to conflict and war…all in the name of the Lord. War and conflict is never the answer to anything…even if someone does wrong to us, we should not be out for revenge, we need to try to educate these people and show them another way, not fight them…

RANT over!!!
 
Hi all,
Thanks for all the welcomes. As atheist topics seem to be ‘banned’ on the forum, i am happy that i have been allowed to stay!
1)
Maybe i should explain a little about why i am on here. I have grown up in Ireland, a VERY catholic nation indeed, therefore i have seen first hand the effects on my country. Yes i went to school every day, had nice teachers, and teachers i can only describe as evil…who happened to be nuns…beating kids for simple things like not playing a piano correctly etc…i won’t go on to discuss the issue with priests here in Ireland because the whole situation is deplorable.I have a few Catholic friends who say, well yes there are paedophiles everywhere, not only priests…however priests are supposed to be GOOD, GODLIKE, people you can turn to and trust… especially since they have much power and status here. I cannot tell you how many cases are happening in every county…and of course the Pope is doing a great job of punishing these evil men. (hint the sarcasm)
As much as you guys seem to really know your stuff with regard to the Bible, at the end of the day, it is a book written by humans, so HOW can you know you are right, i think all any of us can say is that we are agnostic - NOBODY REALLY KNOWS!!! Therefore for me, i have to go on what evidence i have.
I know many catholic people who are at church every Sunday, who pray for people when they are sick, and claim that they live good lives. The same people gossip and complain outside the church about various unfortunate people, have their dogs taken from them by the ISPCA because they were maltreated or starved, put the fear of God into their children to make them go to bed at night, and keep secrets about the priests who abused them as children. These poor people are closed, intolerant, uneducated and actually sad people. I don’t go to church, i don’t pray, but if someone i know is sick i go visit them and make them something to eat, i am as kind as possible be to my partner and our Irish setter ‘Pepper’, i cannot bear the thought of anyone hurting an animal (even if they have souls are not) …they are sentient creatures with their own personalities and fears. I try to do right by people, and try not to judge people when they do something i do not agree with. And how have i learned these traits …my parents, not from God, but from the way they have brought up my 6 siblings and i - to have respect for every living creature, and to try to find compassion even for those who anger you ( although i must say meditation has really helped me with feeling compassion towards people i feel are cruel) And this is true of my partner who grew up without religion, or any friends i have who are atheist - good decent open non-judgemental people.
4)
What about when religion justifies things like: the killing of innocent children because their bad behaviour leads parents to believe they are possessed by some evil spirit…when in fact all they need is proper parenting!
Going back to the story of Amalek…when the Lord says:I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel. …fair enough, but i thought we are meant to forgive? This is opening the door to conflict and war…all in the name of the Lord. War and conflict is never the answer to anything…even if someone does wrong to us, we should not be out for revenge, we need to try to educate these people and show them another way, not fight them…

RANT over!!!
I have a number of atheists in my extended family, one of their constant cries is how much war has been created over religion. Certainly there have been some but, interestingly, nowhere near the severity of the atrocities of atheism. c.f.: Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Rwanda. In fact, I would aver that atheists should find atheism a repugnant condition based on the results (fruit) it has shown. What do you think?
 
Hi Pepper,

I am an Welsh Irish Catholic American. I am a descendant of the Brady Bunch…and not the ones from TV.

Yesterday, I drove to the Columbia River to visit my elder cousin, a grandson of the first child of the Brady’s. My great grandmother was a most devout Catholic from Swansea, Wales who could not rest in her grave if any of us left the Catholic Church, and this was past down to my grandmother.

We were talking about how some Catholic parishes can have some very closed people who are not friendly, welcoming, or charitable, and then you can go to another place and find the exact opposite. Yet people are all hearing the same message being taught.

He asked what grade school I went to. I told him the nuns were from Ireland and very abusive. I lived in an Italian immigrant neighborhood and we had an Italian Jesuit heading the Italian mission church that was 5 blocks away. We usually went there. He and my father and other parents finally had the nuns come up to his parish about how they were loading the children down with so much homework and being severe.
My father came out of the meeting saying the nuns acted like they could never do anything wrong.

A year later, my mother had a severe nervous breakdown. I remember staying at my grandmother’s. My father had the diagnosis of my mother on the dining room table. I was 14. I was a heavy reader. I remember reading she was manic depressive, had a multiple personality – I thought she was like Edith in ‘All in the Family’ with Archie Bunker, always well liked by the few who knew her. Anyway, I got my hair cut. It looked very nice after this funky one I was allowed to have in the 7th grade. We were not to tease our hair. So one day one, I mentioned to a ‘friend’ that I teased it a little and then she reported me to the nun who was particularly severe. Before the beginning of the class, the nun took me down to the basement and drenched my head with cold water and sent me back to my junior high class. I was so humiliated and these awful boys the nuns always put me in to sit by said terrible things and were putting me down. It probably hurt so much because of my mother’s situation.

After that, I hated Catholic schools. In the 9th grade, when I was in high school there, we had officers. And if they saw us downtown with our skirts rolled up – just above our knees – we would get detention tickets. I finally went to our family physician because the place was making me neurotic, and I ended up being locked into an image held by my classmates, because as well, we lived in the poorest place in town.
He called my parents to let me go. I ended up at this incredible high school that still has national recognition. I met Protestant girls who came from very good homes. I came out of my shell. But I had scars that lasted up to the age of 21. And I never wanted to put my kids in Catholic schools if I got married.

Anyway, I went on with my life, things turned around and I worked with Italians who came from one of the most wholesome and humane places on earth…a statement I read a few years ago online about their region. It changed me. I did get married and met this – Irish – priest in town who used to be the chaplain for the orphans. He had daily Mass and no one was forced to go, but with the children, it was like Sunday Mass.

Then in the meantime, I went back to the convent where those nuns lived. The ones there knew of the principal and mother superior…and they said I was an innocent. Then when my mother was sick, I went to the hospital and here came the nun now dressed in lay clothes who remembered me. She said she was not a good educator and switched over to pastoral care. I just looked at her, I had no malice…and last summer I went to a retreat. The nun had been in that convent. She told us they were taught not to even look at each other!

And two years ago, when we went to the Columbia River to see my cousins, we also travelled up to that grade school…It was large, it could have been used for many things, but it was shut down. I told my children that is what happened to it for the abuse it did to us children. And to top this experience off, when I got back home a lady was supposed to check out my home for an adult day care. She said she was from the same town. I showed her a lithograph of my high school. She went to the other girls’ Catholic high school. We sat down and talked. And then I simply said something happened to me at that other school. She said she knew about what had happened to me!! She heard it about. And she and her friends had another congregation of nuns. She said when they heard it, they knew that was wrong, and they never had any abuse or mistreatment by their sisters.

Vatican II was in process when those things happened at that school. And Vatican II also addressed unhealthy devotions for the common people as well as correct any disordered thinking or disciplines in religious orders.

Pepper, it is ironic, but when people come to God SO MUCH they end up in time ignoring their own humanity. They lose sense of Christ not only True God but True Man. And when they lose sense of Christ’s humanity, they lose sense of their own and of other people, and become very uncharitable to the point of being abusive.

Have you ever heard of the Twelve Steps? It helps people regain their own personhood and humanity. It is based on Catholic spirituality. I know this priest. He is of Irish descent.

Check out this site: www.12-step-review.org/index.html

I can fully understand your situation. May be you should get into the 12 steps and try to bring it to your region. They need to believe in Christ as Man.
 
Most of us do have our unhappy experiences and can suffer greatly from, sooner or later we come to grips with the consequences of them and after our rants and raves, move on to seek the peace and understanding of it all.

Pepper, I hope you will stay with us for a while now, and perhaps discover another most fulfilling way of life through what we really believe is Truth in the Cathollic Church.
Peace, Carlan
 
Pepper,
It took awhile to get rid of that perspective…I ‘recovered’ that church of my childhood when I attended a Dominican parish that had liturgies close to how the pre Vatican II church was…and this parish also offered the 12 steps. Interesting.

I never left the Catholic Church, believed in the Eucharist my entire life…it was nuns…priests were always very nice and affirming…the Italian priest came into the church one day when I was praying, and he put his hand on my shoulder and said something very kind…like he was a ‘true friend’…may be it was the prayers of my father keeping me in…

Just going to the new high school and getting out of the bondage, and then going to Mass at a secular university put me on my way.

But it sounds like you are surrounded by alot of unhealthy things…make your own ‘enclosure’ where you and the Lord are experiencing love…

The ancient Jews were not that civilized…they were spiritual children…here we had the Wild West…there they had Amalek and their own stubbornness and failings in faith…salvation history…

God was ALWAYS the Loving Father…it was more the reflection of where people were at in those times…tit for tat, eye for eye…you take one of mine out, I’ll take a 100 out of yours…Most places in the world have evolved from that…
 
nuns…beating kids for simple things like not playing a piano correctly etc…

i won’t go on to discuss the issue with priests here in Ireland because the whole situation is deplorable.I have a few Catholic friends who say, well yes there are paedophiles everywhere, not only priests…however priests are supposed to be GOOD, GODLIKE, people you can turn to and trust… especially since they have much power and status here. I cannot tell you how many cases are happening in every county…and of course the Pope is doing a great job of punishing these evil men. (hint the sarcasm)

As much as you guys seem to really know your stuff with regard to the Bible, at the end of the day, it is a book written by humans, so HOW can you know you are right, i think all any of us can say is that we are agnostic - NOBODY REALLY KNOWS!!! Therefore for me, i have to go on what evidence i have.

I know many catholic people who are at church every Sunday, who pray for people when they are sick, and claim that they live good lives. The same people gossip and complain outside the church about various unfortunate people, have their dogs taken from them by the ISPCA because they were maltreated or starved, put the fear of God into their children to make them go to bed at night, and keep secrets about the priests who abused them as children. These poor people are closed, intolerant, uneducated and actually sad people. I don’t go to church, i don’t pray, but if someone i know is sick i go visit them and make them something to eat, i am as kind as possible be to my partner and our Irish setter ‘Pepper’, i cannot bear the thought of anyone hurting an animal (even if they have souls are not) …they are sentient creatures with their own personalities and fears. I try to do right by people, and try not to judge people when they do something i do not agree with. And how have i learned these traits …my parents, not from God, but from the way they have brought up my 6 siblings and i - to have respect for every living creature, and to try to find compassion even for those who anger you ( although i must say meditation has really helped me with feeling compassion towards people i feel are cruel) And this is true of my partner who grew up without religion, or any friends i have who are atheist - good decent open non-judgemental people.

Going back to the story of Amalek…when the Lord says:I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel. …fair enough, but i thought we are meant to forgive? This is opening the door to conflict and war…all in the name of the Lord. War and conflict is never the answer to anything…even if someone does wrong to us, we should not be out for revenge, we need to try to educate these people and show them another way, not fight them…
The nuns beating I can’t defend.

Priests molesting children and Apostolic successors then covering it up. I certainly will not sweep under the rug. Sorry but “everyone sins” in this instance doesn’t cut it with me as much as it does with many of my fellow Catholics. Nor does “it happens elsewhere”. Elsewhere does not proclaim itself to be the one and only true Church. Everyone are not holy men who speak for God through the special calling and orders conferred upon them, who preach the sanctitiy of life and then don’t seem to know enough not to cover up child abuse. I have never molested a child. Nor covered up such acts. I know better. Just as I know better and can can control myself from going up to someone on a street corner, pulling a gun on them and pulling the trigger. 🤷 What we need is some common sense on this. And as many of my fellow Catholics do, comparing an Apostolic successor covering up child abuse with lets say for instance some layperson not obeying and missing Mass on a weekday Nov 1 (decreed in some dioceses in the universal Church but not in others worldwide, not sure about Ireland) as both being on par as mortal sins, I do have to question whether that’s it.

You are correct. If we’re honest with ourselves nobody truly knows. That’s why we call it faith. I look around and I have faith in a Creator. I also have faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Some of us just think we know it all. 🙂 Some faiths unfortunately are just more intolerant than others. You seem to be practicing the Golden Rule though. Jesus was all for it too! 👍

And as He said blessed are the peacemakers. Peace.
 
Most of us do have our unhappy experiences and can suffer greatly from, sooner or later we come to grips with the consequences of them and after our rants and raves, move on to seek the peace and understanding of it all.

Pepper, I hope you will stay with us for a while now, and perhaps discover another most fulfilling way of life through what we really believe is Truth in the Cathollic Church.
Peace, Carlan
Carlan, re: your use of the word “believe” vs know 👍
 
You are correct. If we’re honest with ourselves nobody truly knows. That’s why we call it faith. I look around and I have faith in a Creator. I also have faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Some of us just think we know it all. 🙂 Some faiths unfortunately are just more intolerant than others. You seem to be practicing the Golden Rule though. Jesus was all for it too! 👍

And as He said blessed are the peacemakers. Peace.
I believe you are correct. Even atheist live by faith even though many, if not most, will deny this.
 
Welcome, Pepper! I’m an ex-agnostic/atheist/non-practicing Jew that converted to a believing Catholic in my 30’s (now I’m waaaay past that age). Weird stuff happens in this world, and I have always believed that God is having a rip-roaring good time appreciating the humor of it all – as well as shedding more than a few tears.

Being still kinda new myself (despite my joining date, as I’ve been on and off on participation due to family and personal limitations), I’m not all sure what the restrictions are on atheism and evolution discussions. From what I understand, the “discussions” on these topics turned pretty nasty at some point years ago and were sanctioned for a while and now they are just being given a close eye. As long as we all remain charitable, I think its OK.

I lack the theology and scriptural knowledge of many of the boardies here, but I try to contribute some of my life experience and spiritual experience with everyone.
 
Welcome, Pepper! I’m an ex-agnostic/atheist/non-practicing Jew that converted to a believing Catholic in my 30’s (now I’m waaaay past that age). Weird stuff happens in this world, and I have always believed that God is having a rip-roaring good time appreciating the humor of it all – as well as shedding more than a few tears.

Being still kinda new myself (despite my joining date, as I’ve been on and off on participation due to family and personal limitations), I’m not all sure what the restrictions are on atheism and evolution discussions. From what I understand, the “discussions” on these topics turned pretty nasty at some point years ago and were sanctioned for a while and now they are just being given a close eye. As long as we all remain charitable, I think its OK.

I lack the theology and scriptural knowledge of many of the boardies here, but I try to contribute some of my life experience and spiritual experience with everyone.
I think that is fair enough Sojo, and true of most of us, just trying to share and defend best we can,with charity, that which we believe to be the Truth.:)Peace, Carlan
 
You are most welcome. If you want to “party like it’s 1999”, you’ve come to the right place.

Keep reading and “good luck” on your journey in life.
 
Pepper, I’m sorry you suffered at the hands of evil people. It makes me very sad that you and others have suffered. You sound like a very caring and sweet person.

One way I look at this is kinda like this: It is the freedom we have to choose evil or good, given to us by God.

With regards to those people, do you think they were evil before they were priests or nuns? I think they prey on us, but it will no longer be tolerated. Thank you Jesus light has been shed on this, and we are all actively protecting our church and its people from such crimes.

God bless you Pepper.
 
You claim “goodness is not heavenly and is ingrained in humanity.” If this were true, would not all humans be equally “good.”
No. “Goodness” is a label that we put on certain behaviors that we, as social animals, have developed over long periods of time to cope with reality. We know, from studying other social animals, that their societies have codes that members of those societies don’t always follow – wolf packs, for example, practice a form of crime and punishment, in which offenders are expelled from the group.

We humans seem to have an innate sense of those actions that our evolutionary heritage has deemed “good,” along with (because of?) an evolved sense of empathy with our fellow creatures – and this sense exists in various degrees among people. People – like other social animals – don’t always follow that innate sense for a variety of reasons. There’s absolutely nothing about it that implies anything at all supernatural.
Is it not then reasonable to conclude that there is some perfection of goodness, some ultimate source of goodness that is so pure, and so good, that there exists within it no possibility for evil?
No, it’s not. There doesn’t have to be a “perfection of heat” to say, “Wow, today is hotter than yetserday!” Similarly, there doesn’t have to be a “perfection of goodness” to say, “Wow, molesting children is worse than giving them candy.” Again, all of this is in the context of behaviors we have developed over long periods of time to cope with reality, in the context of permissible behaviors in the pack, so to speak. None of this has to be “absolute morality” created by fairy-tale beings.
But as God is the author of life, God, and God alone, has the authority to take it away.
And I say that this is an utterly immoral concept. It’s unfortunate that your religion has made you think it’s okay to say, “Someone who gives you life should be able to take it away from you.”
Even for innocent infants, if God takes them, he has saved them from the suffering and sin inherent to this world. It is an act of mercy to the sinner, as the sinner will not continue sinning and causing suffering for himself and others.
Translation: “When you think that god is telling you to kill people, you’re really doing them a favor.”

There are cases on record of people killing others – innocent infants, at that – because “god” told them it was a good idea. Don’t you think that encouraging people to question ghastly fables like this – which I’m sure sounded really good in the Bronze age – would be better than promoting an ideology of blind faith.
 
Hi Pepper,

I strongly urge you to research “stages of spiritual growth” or google something similar.

Theologians across religions have a general agreement of the different stages of spirtitual growth an individual passes through (like stages of biological growth).

A scientific disbelief in the dogma or logic of organized religion is one of the stages, and where you are at.
 
I have grown up in Ireland, a VERY catholic nation indeed, therefore i have seen first hand the effects on my country.
Which is why God does not call us to religion, but to faith in Him and His Word. Paul already makes your same claim in Romans 2, when he writes (speaking to the Jewish men of the cloth),* "You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” *
  1. As much as you guys seem to really know your stuff with regard to the Bible, at the end of the day, it is a book written by humans, so HOW can you know you are right, i think all any of us can say is that we are agnostic - NOBODY REALLY KNOWS!!! Therefore for me, i have to go on what evidence i have.
Evidence is crucial, yes: Jesus’ Resurrection is the ultimate evidence for the truth of the Scriptures and of the Christian faith. (Read the short volume Who Moved The Stone by Morrison.) Jesus Himself attested to the absolute veracity and incontrovertability of the Scriptures. How do you view His stance? Was He mistaken? Who do **you **say Jesus is, Pepper?
  1. [long contrast between your own goodness and the faults of Catholics] I try to do right by people, and try not to judge people when they do something i do not agree with. [But then you proceed to do just that when you write] “These poor people are closed, intolerant, uneducated and actually sad people.”
You see, it is impossible not to exercise judgement: you do it every time you—even only inwardly—disagree with something or someone. There is nothing wrong with judgement in the sense of evaluation and discernment. (While we’re on the topic: do you then simply say, “Ah, the Shoah, that was a trifling glitsch in history; I don’t judge those SS, and none of us should.”)
I don’t go to church, i don’t pray, but if someone i know is sick i go visit them and make them something to eat, i am as kind as possible be to my partner and our Irish setter ‘Pepper’
That is certainly commendable, but the very fact that you’re implying that you’re better than the people you just previously complained about is an example of pride (and implicit judgement, again). Remember, Pepper: “None is righteous, no, not one; **no one **understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one.” (Romans 3) “For whoever keeps the whole law [of God] but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” said also, “Do not kill.” If you do not commit adultery but do kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.” (James 2) If I do not beat my dog or my partner, but I commit perversion, I have become a transgressor of the law [God’s]. If I do not judge the pervert, but I am proud, I have become a transgressor of the law.

It is a “package,” Pepper: only the person who totally, completely fulfills all of God’s commandments (in thought, attitude, word and actions) is sinless. The only person who qualifies for that is Jesus Himself. At the Judgement Day, you can’t stand before God based on what (from His most perfect perspective) amounts to your own paltry “goodness”; NONE of us can. The only righteousness that will avail for you in the end is Jesus’ imputed righteousness (= credited to your account), as you can read in Romans 3 & 4.
  1. Going back to the story of Amalek…when the Lord says:I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel. …fair enough, but i thought we are meant to forgive?.. War and conflict is never the answer to anything…even if someone does wrong to us, we should not be out for revenge, we need to try to educate these people and show them another way, not fight them…
Should all the SS then simply have been forgiven, Pepper? There is a difference between personal conflict and political conflict. Your stance implies that truly evil people are simply mildly misguided, and in their heart of hearts, they’re amenable to chatting things out: all we have to do is dialogue with them. But look at even just one example of that (Chamberlain, “Peace in our time!”) and see where it led.
 
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