Hiding in science?

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AntiTheist said:
Yes. Imaginary truths, for example, cannot be discovered by using science.

No amount of science can determine how Lord Voldemort can be defeated, for instance, since he’s a fictional character made up in the imagination of some British woman who’s turned a little escapist fantasy into a zillion-dollar industry.

Science is similarly incapable of determining the existence of – and facts about – other fictional characters, among them the various gods that mankind has invented.
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Science is incapable of determining the existence of – and facts about – any of the most important things in life… truth, goodness, freedom, beauty and love…
 
AntiTheist said:
Science is similarly incapable of determining the existence of – and facts about – other fictional characters, among them the various gods that mankind has invented.
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But in all societies through the ages people have had faith in something or someone beyond everyday life. From a creationist angle this longing was placed there, or from an evolutionary angle it has helped our tribes to survive. Either way, scientifically there must be a reason why we have this trait. To simply dismiss faiths as fictions and hope it all goes away would be, old friend, unscientific. Thoughts?
 
AntiTheist said:
Yes. Imaginary truths, for example, cannot be discovered by using science…Science is similarly incapable of determining the existence of – and facts about – other fictional characters, among them the various gods that mankind has invented.
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While you can attempt to draw an analogy to fiction based upon the incapacity of science to explain fictional characters; so what?

Science cannot explain why I chose to have a diet coke to drink this morning instead of cream soda.
Science cannot explain why I love my wife.
Science cannot explain why salmon return to their birthplace to spawn.
Science cannot explain why whales sing.
Science cannot explain why my dog barks all night.
Science cannot explain why the neighbor doesn’t care about the dog barking.
Science cannot explain why the bird just flew into my window.
Science cannot explain why people make bad decisions.
Science cannot explain why people make good choices.

In fact, when I think about all the things science cannot explain I start wondering about how useful it is. Just what good is something that explains so little of the world around me.
I have to remind myself that Science is merely a tool.
Like a hammer, or a wrench. It is simply a tool.
Just as the bible cannot be used as a Math textbook, Science cannot be used as a philosophy or a religion.
You don’t drive nails with a wrench, you drive nails with a hammer.
 
vz71 said:
While you can attempt to draw an analogy to fiction based upon the incapacity of science to explain fictional characters; so what?

Science cannot explain why I chose to have a diet coke to drink this morning instead of cream soda.
Science cannot explain why I love my wife.
Science cannot explain why salmon return to their birthplace to spawn.
Science cannot explain why whales sing.
Science cannot explain why my dog barks all night.
Science cannot explain why the neighbor doesn’t care about the dog barking.
Science cannot explain why the bird just flew into my window.
Science cannot explain why people make bad decisions.
Science cannot explain why people make good choices.

In fact, when I think about all the things science cannot explain I start wondering about how useful it is. Just what good is something that explains so little of the world around me.
I have to remind myself that Science is merely a tool.
Like a hammer, or a wrench. It is simply a tool.
Just as the bible cannot be used as a Math textbook, Science cannot be used as a philosophy or a religion.
You don’t drive nails with a wrench, you drive nails with a hammer.
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Agreed. Using science exclusively to learn is like trying to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest ‘wiiitth… a HERRING’
 
tonyrey said:
Science is incapable of determining the existence of – and facts about – any of the most important things in life… truth, goodness, freedom, beauty and love…
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The chips in our computers work because there is **truth **in quantum theory. The **goodness **of scientific knowledge has also given us the **freedom **to make friends on the net, see the **beauty **in Hubble images, and may cure a disease in someone we love. 🙂 Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is way cooler.

(If that sounds like AntiTheist, let me quickly add that we are made to be curious and God doesn’t seem to mind when we discover more about His handiwork.)
 
inocente said:
The chips in our computers work because there is **truth **in quantum theory. The **goodness **of scientific knowledge has also given us the **freedom **to make friends on the net, see the **beauty **in Hubble images, and may cure a disease in someone we love. 🙂 Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is way cooler.

(If that sounds like AntiTheist, let me quickly add that we are made to be curious and God doesn’t seem to mind when we discover more about His handiwork.)
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Yes and no. Knowledge is cool, but the ability to appreciate the aesthetic, and compassion-based, benefits of said knowledge, beyond just understanding only the mechanism, is way cooler.
 
traillius said:
Yes and no. Knowledge is cool, but the ability to appreciate the aesthetic, and compassion-based, benefits of said knowledge, beyond just understanding only the mechanism, is way cooler.
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Though I’d guess most scientists do that naturally, even biochemists at a stretch (looking at your blog). 😃
 
inocente said:
While the nature of dark matter and dark energy are not yet known, hence the word dark :cool:, the effects can be measured. Dark matter enhances gravity while dark energy accelerates expansion.
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First the Universe was expanding slowly, now it is expanding quickly. So why is the rate of expansion changing if the amount of energy is not changing?
inocente said:
There is some evidence that the total energy in visible matter + dark matter = the total of dark energy.

The speculation is then that the sum of energy across the entire universe is and always has been exactly zero, a very neat result - Someone was smart enough not to have to keep putting more gas in the tank.
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And if the speculation is right, then the probability of this having occurred is infinitesimal and so is the probability that atheists are right.
 
AntiTheist said:
No amount of science can determine how Lord Voldemort can be defeated, for instance, since he’s a fictional character made up in the imagination of some British woman who’s turned a little escapist fantasy into a zillion-dollar industry.

Science is similarly incapable of determining the existence of – and facts about – other fictional characters, among them the various gods that mankind has invented.
Click to expand...
The Big Bang demonstrates that there is one almighty and transcendent Prime Mover. Hence, atheism is fictional. That gets you to Deism and you must then evaluate the three monotheistic religions before you can conclude anything.
 
Cat_Herder said:
First the Universe was expanding slowly, now it is expanding quickly. So why is the rate of expansion changing if the amount of energy is not changing?
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I’m not a cosmologist so you’ll have to put up with my dunderhead understanding. Think of it as negative gravity producing increasing acceleration proportional to time.
And if the speculation is right, then the probability of this having occurred is infinitesimal and so is the probability that atheists are right.
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The equation balances to within 1% of current observations so if they are born out by further work the probability is high that it’s correct.

Some atheists want to make a lot of it, yet it doesn’t answer any fundamental questions about how and why the Big Bang came about. Without diminishing the amazing fact that we can work these things out, it just tidies up the math and is aesthetically pleasing to boot. It doesn’t provide any new ammunition for atheists or for theists beyond another confirmation that nature is what it is whether we like it or not.
 
tonyrey said:
Science is incapable of determining the existence of – and facts about – any of the most important things in life… truth, goodness, freedom, beauty and love…
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These are concepts that are only relevant to humans, so to say they are the most important things in life leads to circular arguments.
 
inocente said:
I’m not a cosmologist so you’ll have to put up with my dunderhead understanding. Think of it as negative gravity producing increasing acceleration proportional to time.
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Gravity does not push things away. If it did, black holes would have indigestion.
inocente said:
The equation balances to within 1% of current observations so if they are born out by further work the probability is high that it’s correct.

Some atheists want to make a lot of it, yet it doesn’t answer any fundamental questions about how and why the Big Bang came about. Without diminishing the amazing fact that we can work these things out, it just tidies up the math and is aesthetically pleasing to boot. It doesn’t provide any new ammunition for atheists or for theists beyond another confirmation that nature is what it is whether we like it or not.
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It is however evidence of a Prime Mover continuing to interact with the Universe.
 
lemondiesel said:
And what constitutes “good” and “bad” decisions?
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If the Universe bears principles of design, it becomes possible to objectively define good and bad as compatible and incompatible with that design, or as creative and destructive respectively.

Case in point: each planet is a beautiful and unique creation. Therefore destroying a planet is evil.

The same thing can be said about individual life forms.
 
lemondiesel said:
These are concepts that are only relevant to humans, so to say they are the most important things in life leads to circular arguments.
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So they would not be relevant to other rational beings? Just fictions?
 
Cat_Herder said:
If the Universe bears principles of design, it becomes possible to objectively define good and bad as compatible and incompatible with that design, or as creative and destructive respectively.
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It does and it is!
Case in point: each planet is a beautiful and unique creation. Therefore destroying a planet is evil.
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The same thing can be said about individual life forms.
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Facts unknown to science!
 
inocente said:
The chips in our computers work because there is **truth **in quantum theory. The **goodness **of scientific knowledge has also given us the **freedom **to make friends on the net, see the **beauty **in Hubble images, and may cure a disease in someone we love. 🙂 Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is way cooler.
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Not one of these facts is discovered by science!
 
Cat_Herder said:
The Big Bang demonstrates that there is one almighty and transcendent Prime Mover.
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The Big Bang demonstrates nothing of the kind.

The Big Bang is evidence of the Big Bang. It tells us nothing about what caused it or whether “cause” is even the right word to be using.
 
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