High Altars

[Servus_Pio_XII]

There is a local parish which, in the '70’s, had it’s high altar smashed (unfortunately, quite literally) and replaced by decoration which, in the words of the pastor, “looked like a Christian Science reading room”. I am wondering if there is anything in the GIRM, Canon Law, Church documents, et al which prohibits the building of High Altars.

I believe I am capable of organising all of the fund raising myself, if one were to rebuild the altar, and the pastor seems to be like minded (he called the destruction of the altar “abominable”). I am just making sure that, before proposing the idea to him, it is licit.
In addition, I have an idea of getting a petition set up of parishioners who would like to see a proper High Altar alongside the freestanding one. If anyone has any other ideas upon the licitness of the plan, and how to enact a plan to rebuild the high altar, do tell. Thank you.

 

[m134e5]

There is no such document demanding the removal of High Altars. Whoever advocated that wanted nothing more than to hide the fact that the Mass is indeed a sacrifice.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Servus Pio XII:

There is a local parish which, in the '70’s, had it’s high altar smashed (unfortunately, quite literally) and replaced by decoration which, in the words of the pastor, “looked like a Christian Science reading room”. I am wondering if there is anything in the GIRM, Canon Law, Church documents, et al which prohibits the building of High Altars.

I believe I am capable of organising all of the fund raising myself, if one were to rebuild the altar, and the pastor seems to be like minded (he called the destruction of the altar “abominable”). I am just making sure that, before proposing the idea to him, it is licit.

In addition, I have an idea of getting a petition set up of parishioners who would like to see a proper High Altar alongside the freestanding one. If anyone has any other ideas upon the licitness of the plan, and how to enact a plan to rebuild the high altar, do tell. Thank you.

I’m not certain about “licitness.” I think priests are given enormous discretion as to what they can do with the physical plants they are in charge of, barring something like a historical marker or preservation prohibition. Our pastor has taken our ugly, modern building and transformed it, making it look, well, much more Catholic. There’s the rub, though: what one pastor does the next can undo. I myself prefer the free-standing altars, as long as they aren’t made of wood, and I don’t think the old ones are any “higher:” The new ones, IMHO, look more like what I imagine the old altars of the Israelites to look like (unless they’re wood).

 

[JKirkLVNV]

m134e5:

There is no such document demanding the removal of High Altars. Whoever advocated that wanted nothing more than to hide the fact that the Mass is indeed a sacrifice.

And you come to that conclusion how, precisely?

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

“High” is not an adjective. That is what an altar upon the wall which can only be used ad orientam is called…a High Altar.

Just a bit of a nitpick.

Whoever advocated that wanted nothing more than to hide the fact that the Mass is indeed a sacrifice.

Thank goodness. Now I can begin to organise a petition.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

“High” is not an adjective. That is what an altar upon the wall which can only be used ad orientam is called…a High Altar.

Just a bit of a nitpick.

Once again, it’s always helpful to have a bit of a read before making an assertion. I think you’ll find you’re mistaken:

newadvent.org/cathen/07346b.htm

Nothing about it being against a wall is mention. It has to be fixed and central, that’s all.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

I believe I am still less mistaken than thou. You assert that altars have levels of “highness”. This is wrong. However, I specify that I am referring to an ad-orientam High Altar.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Servus Pio XII:

I believe I am still less mistaken than thou. You assert that altars have levels of “highness”. This is wrong. However, I specify that I am referring to an ad-orientam High Altar.

No, that isn’t what I was asserting. I was asserting that “high” is not indicated by location in the sanctuary. The “high” altar is the MAIN altar. When I said one was no less “high” than the other, my point was that it doesn’t have to be against the wall. Sorry to have been obscure.

 

[AltarMan]

Servus Pio XII:

There is a local parish which, in the '70’s, had it’s high altar smashed (unfortunately, quite literally) and replaced by decoration which, in the words of the pastor, “looked like a Christian Science reading room”. I am wondering if there is anything in the GIRM, Canon Law, Church documents, et al which prohibits the building of High Altars.

I believe I am capable of organising all of the fund raising myself, if one were to rebuild the altar, and the pastor seems to be like minded (he called the destruction of the altar “abominable”). I am just making sure that, before proposing the idea to him, it is licit.

In addition, I have an idea of getting a petition set up of parishioners who would like to see a proper High Altar alongside the freestanding one.  If anyone has any other ideas upon the licitness of the plan, and how to enact a plan to rebuild the high altar, do tell.  Thank you.

Why would you want to rebuild what you call a “high altar”? There should be ONE ALTAR in Catholic Church – the ALTAR OF SACRIFICE.

I will admit that I am in favor of using those old “against the wall altars” as credence tables, rather than removing them (in architecturally significant churches) but to re-build such an altar to make the building look “more Catholic” seems quite odd to say the least.

That’s why we don’t see St. Mary or St. Joseph side altars in newly built churches – the focus is one ONE ALTAR.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

AltarMan:

Why would you want to rebuild what you call a “high altar”? There should be ONE ALTAR in Catholic Church – the ALTAR OF SACRIFICE.

I will admit that I am in favor of using those old “against the wall altars” as credence tables, rather than removing them (in architecturally significant churches) but to re-build such an altar to make the building look “more Catholic” seems quite odd to say the least.

That’s why we don’t see St. Mary or St. Joseph side altars in newly built churches – the focus is one ONE ALTAR.

Does that mean (canonically, I guess I mean) that we CAN’T have side altars? Surely that’s not the case for chapels that connect to the main body of any given church?

 

[AJV]

Perhaps instead of rebuilding the former high altar you could beautify the existing one. Get a carved one(or cover it with a decentl frontal), place it on steps, erect a baldachin over it that fits with the architecture of the church, etc… The back wall decoration could be replaced with an appropriate mural or mosaic-I once saw one of Christ on the cross surounded with Ss. Mary and John and all the angels.

 

[AltarMan]

AJV:

Perhaps instead of rebuilding the former high altar you could beautify the existing one. Get a carved one(or cover it with a decentl frontal), place it on steps, erect a baldachin over it that fits with the architecture of the church, etc… The back wall decoration could be replaced with an appropriate mural or mosaic-I once saw one of Christ on the cross surounded with Ss. Mary and John and all the angels.

That’s an excellent idea. Or how about a real nice credence table if one does not exist?

 

[AltarMan]

JKirkLVNV:

Does that mean (canonically, I guess I mean) that we CAN’T have side altars? Surely that’s not the case for chapels that connect to the main body of any given church?

I have never seen a directive from the Church that says to destroy existing side altars. While I don’t believe there is a directive not to have side altars in newly built churches, I know that it’s at least* recommended* that we only have one altar – the main altar of sacrifice.

Keep in mind that in practical terms, side altars were once necessary when each priest had to celebrate a Mass each day AND they were unable to concelebrate. Often a Mass would be celebrated with a congregation while another priest(s) celebrated another Mass(es) by himself on a side altar. Remember seeing newsreels of rows and rows of bishops each celebrating individual Masses at what looked like minature “lap-top” altars at Vatican Conference II? Today the second (or third, etc.) priest would simply concelebrate the Mass with a congregation.

 

[mgy100]

If returning the Tabernacle to the center is the main goal… why not just do that. Couple that with making the altar prettier and you’ve got a multi-dimensional renovation. If you’ve got one of those ugly 1970’s looking altar areas, by all means give it a fresh and traditional look.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

AltarMan:

I have never seen a directive from the Church that says to destroy existing side altars. While I don’t believe there is a directive not to have side altars in newly built churches, I know that it’s at least* recommended* that we only have one altar – the main altar of sacrifice.

Keep in mind that in practical terms, side altars were once necessary when each priest had to celebrate a Mass each day AND they were unable to concelebrate. Often a Mass would be celebrated with a congregation while another priest(s) celebrated another Mass(es) by himself on a side altar. Remember seeing newsreels of rows and rows of bishops each celebrating individual Masses at what looked like minature “lap-top” altars at Vatican Conference II? Today the second (or third, etc.) priest would simply concelebrate the Mass with a congregation.

I see, I thought the side altars were to honor Our Lady or the Saint whose image appeared there (esp. since they were housed in the “Lady” chapel, etc.). Thanks for the info.

 

[AltarMan]

JKirkLVNV:

I see, I thought the side altars were to honor Our Lady or the Saint whose image appeared there (esp. since they were housed in the “Lady” chapel, etc.). Thanks for the info.

You can’t honor the BVM without an altar? Interesting…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

AltarMan:

You can’t honor the BVM without an altar? Interesting…

No, no, that isn’t what I mean. I mean that most side shrines that I’ve seen in churches had an altar. Come to think of it, these were older churches.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

Why would you want to rebuild what you call a “high altar”? There should be ONE ALTAR in Catholic Church – the ALTAR OF SACRIFICE.

I will admit that I am in favor of using those old “against the wall altars” as credence tables, rather than removing them (in architecturally significant churches) but to re-build such an altar to make the building look “more Catholic” seems quite odd to say the least.

That’s why we don’t see St. Mary or St. Joseph side altars in newly built churches – the focus is one ONE ALTAR.

Problem…if you go by the strict definition of Main Altar, the church hasn’t got one.

It has, at this point, what I call a “crate altar” which is simply a wooden construction, fully movable, which has a cloth over it. Going by that, you could actually say that there is no altar in the sanctuary permanently.

The tabernacle used to be what the pastor described as a “bread box” in a corner. There was no tabernacle until he came along. Only the Last Supper scene survived from the High Altar.

So, while Mass can still be offered upon the secondary altar, there would only be one main altar in the sanctuary, which would also hold the tabernacle.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

AltarMan:

Keep in mind that in practical terms, side altars were once necessary when each priest had to celebrate a Mass each day AND they were unable to concelebrate. Often a Mass would be celebrated with a congregation while another priest(s) celebrated another Mass(es) by himself on a side altar…

I can do one better on that. I remember in elementary school, during the daily Mass we were required to attend, seeing the “spare” priests celebrate their daily Mass while Monsignor had the high (main) altar. It was sometimes hard to concentrate on the Main Mass with side Masses, particularly since the 2nd and 3rd grades were seated on the sides.

 

[AltarMan]

OutinChgoburbs:

I can do one better on that. I remember in elementary school, during the daily Mass we were required to attend, seeing the “spare” priests celebrate their daily Mass while Monsignor had the high (main) altar. It was sometimes hard to concentrate on the Main Mass with side Masses, particularly since the 2nd and 3rd grades were seated on the sides.

If you know the location of those “spares”, please send them to my parish. We’re in chaos…