High church / low church

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. . . . because he teaches with the authority of Jesus Christ.

Thanks GK for your always lucid exposition! It’s great when a non-Catholic, who does not fully subscribe to Catholic teaching, can explain it so carefully and accurately!
Yes, through the Authority of Christ, as you say.

You are very kind to say so, Mercygate. Thank you.

From my standpoint (here’s a thread starter) I’m not a non-Catholic. I’m a non-Roman Catholic. You find Anglicans who say things like that, from time to time.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
He didn’t. When people commit sin against children they failed. You cannot blame the Pope. He was **greatly distressed **when the sex scandal rocked the US.

People failed only when they fall into sin.
Amen, His late Holiness had a zero tolerance of any sort of ‘vulnerable’ abuse. He was greatly outspoken on the issue and swift to dismiss not only weak Priests but additionally any Bishop who allowed such Priests to remain in Office.

I would remind you of one such Arch-Bishop of Wales [UK] who was dismissed and replaced by Bishop Peter Smith [ex Seminary Director] who was like-minded of zero tolerance.
 
What would be the point of infallibility then if horrific things like this couldn’t be handled better and more timely?
Please see my post above.

His late Holiness acted swiftly and effectively. His Pontificate was significant for his Ambassador-ship and good Stewardship of defending the most vulnerable in society.

To criticise him as he has been, is in my view not only error but tantamount to slanderous.

What is not being made extant is the fact that sadly some men gained entry to seminaries who were insincere in their intentions to be a Priest of God, rather seeing it as an opportunity to gain access to working with children.

It is very difficult to screen for that. But screen they now do.

This is nothing new, it is well known that during the time of Communist Russia, seminaries were ‘hit en-masse’ by men whose sole purpose was to inflitrate the Catholic Church in a communist plot to attempt to dismantle the Church from within.

It was also hoped that if enough agents got in, some would find their way upto the highest office so that they could influence Church teaching that was favourable to the communists.

True to His promise [Mt 16:18], none found their way into the Chair of Peter. His late Holiness and his current Holiness bear witness to the fact of their failure 🙂
 
Please see my post above.

His late Holiness acted swiftly and effectively. His Pontificate was significant for his Ambassador-ship and good Stewardship of defending the most vulnerable in society.

To criticise him as he has been, is in my view not only error but tantamount to slanderous.

What is not being made extant is the fact that sadly some men gained entry to seminaries who were insincere in their intentions to be a Priest of God, rather seeing it as an opportunity to gain access to working with children.

It is very difficult to screen for that. But screen they now do.

This is nothing new, it is well known that during the time of Communist Russia, seminaries were ‘hit en-masse’ by men whose sole purpose was to inflitrate the Catholic Church in a communist plot to attempt to dismantle the Church from within.

It was also hoped that if enough agents got in, some would find their way upto the highest office so that they could influence Church teaching that was favourable to the communists.

True to His promise [Mt 16:18], none found their way into the Chair of Peter. His late Holiness and his current Holiness bear witness to the fact of their failure 🙂
I have read your post and as much as I would like to subscribe to what you have said here, I just cannot. So many innocent children were abused on this man’s watch and that’s not to say that it hasn’t happened in Protestant churches as well but the Catholic church is the one in the spotlight right now. History has shown many popes to be very tolerant of some horribly despicable behavior and that is not to be nasty but to properly put it into perspective. I just think that so much more needs to be done for “Christ’s church” to really look like Christ’s church again.
 
Interesting story! Just one question about their embrace of “high” church. Are you sure that they accepted the belief of the Assumption and Immaculate Conception?
Quite sure. This Anglo-Papist parish was only millimeters from the Chair of Peter. I must say a very rare and unusual community indeed. Anglicanism in ecstasy.
 
I actually wish there was an Anglican-Use parish nearby. From what I have seen on their websites, I would probably really like the Mass. It reminds me of the TLM, only in the vernacular.
Hello Laura:

Me too, the Anglican Use parish. I’ve just finished reading Father Bergman’s articles. Too bad Pennsylvania is so far away. What did your last sentence mean?

LordHORSEY
Tiber River Swim Club-2003
 
Hello Laura:

Me too, the Anglican Use parish. I’ve just finished reading Father Bergman’s articles. Too bad Pennsylvania is so far away. What did your last sentence mean?

LordHORSEY
Tiber River Swim Club-2003
Never mind-I got it.
 
Yes, through the Authority of Christ, as you say.

You are very kind to say so, Mercygate. Thank you.

From my standpoint (here’s a thread starter) I’m not a non-Catholic. I’m a non-Roman Catholic. You find Anglicans who say things like that, from time to time.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
I used to say so myself until I locked in the piece about what Apostolic succession means when you’re not quibbling about it. I was “more” Catholic than a lot of Catholics in doctrine, devotion and praxis. In some ways I was a better evangelist to Catholics before I jumped the river because of that.
 
Quite sure. This Anglo-Papist parish was only millimeters from the Chair of Peter. I must say a very rare and unusual community indeed. Anglicanism in ecstasy.
Affirmative. As a High Church Anglican I accepted all of the Marian dogmas (because they are TRUE!). My quibble was that I found it difficult to accept the latter promulgations ON THE SAME FOOTING AS THE ARTICLES OF THE CREED. I do now, but when I came into the Church, I was only at the point where I knew that if I could not deny the primacy of the See of Peter, then I could not deny these doctrines either, even if I didn’t quite “get it.”

It has come clearer through the past few years. I am now perfectly reconciled to these teachings not only because they are true but “get it” that BECAUSE THEY ARE TRUE, they merit affirmation with the same consent of faith we give to the articles of the Creed.
 
I used to say so myself until I locked in the piece about what Apostolic succession means when you’re not quibbling about it. I was “more” Catholic than a lot of Catholics in doctrine, devotion and praxis. In some ways I was a better evangelist to Catholics before I jumped the river because of that.
Heavens, MG. I don’t quibble about Apostolic succession. Ya either got it or you don’t.

But I doubt I’m any sort of evangelist to RCs. They usually don’t need evangelizing.

GKC
 
Heavens, MG. I don’t quibble about Apostolic succession. Ya either got it or you don’t.

But I doubt I’m any sort of evangelist to RCs. They usually don’t need evangelizing.

GKC
Yes, my friend. Catholics do need evangelizing to the fullness of their own faith. So many of them (us) reject core teachings.

I used to 'splain the contraception thing ALL the time. Ditto confession and the Marian dogmas. I don’t think I converted many Catholics to their own faith, but at least they were hearing this stuff from someone who was not fed these teachings with his mother’s milk, so the credibility factor was “cleaner.”
 
Yes, my friend. Catholics do need evangelizing to the fullness of their own faith. So many of them (us) reject core teachings.

I used to 'splain the contraception thing ALL the time. Ditto confession and the Marian dogmas. I don’t think I converted many Catholics to their own faith, but at least they were hearing this stuff from someone who was not fed these teachings with his mother’s milk, so the credibility factor was “cleaner.”
I must admit that, about 35 years ago, I made a habit, merely out of curiousity, of asking my RC friends (I met a variety of such in my AF career) to explain the Immaculate Conception. This habit grew out of what I found was the almost invariable reply. I think you can guess what I usually got as an explanation.

Maybe you’re right. But I’d think of that more as educating in the faith, not evangelizing to the unbelievers. I hope.

GKC
 
I have read your post and as much as I would like to subscribe to what you have said here, I just cannot. So many innocent children were abused on this man’s watch and that’s not to say that it hasn’t happened in Protestant churches as well but the Catholic church is the one in the spotlight right now. History has shown many popes to be very tolerant of some horribly despicable behavior and that is not to be nasty but to properly put it into perspective. I just think that so much more needs to be done for “Christ’s church” to really look like Christ’s church again.
Can we get to a point where we can differentiate between papal infailability and papal impeccability?

“Super-Pope” did not fly down from the sky with his cape and his mighty powers to stop everything everywhere that he could not see and be aware of, I will grant you that.

No well informed Catholics thinks he could have.

1.1B Catholics in the world, and what “Fr Soandso” was so unfortunately doing out of sight, in a rectory somewhere in (name a city) is just not on the radar.

Less than 1% of the clergy have even so much as been accused. How widespread have you been wrongly lead to believe this was? What makes you think that the Pope of Rome knew what was going on in this country (less than 7% of the Catholic world) on the part of less than 1% of the clergy?

Papal infailability has been our rock and safeguard against doctrinal error, and our point of unity as Catholics. It does not mean that everything the pope does will be perfect. It does not mean that everyone under the pope will be saints. God be pleased that it were so!

So I guess I am left to ask you this: Could you explain what you think papal infailability means and how you think it works?

Could you explain how you think B16 or JP2 could have known about these jerks and what they could have done? (Bear in mind that due process is alive and well, and that accusations alone are not proof or sentence… More than one priest has been accused for political motivations.)

Can you site an example of an abuse case that you reasonably believe the Pope, over in Rome, was aware of and remained silent about or helped to cover up?

Did the papacy fail? Or did some of us fail to cleave to the truth of the faith that is safeguarded by the papacy?
 
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