High cost for health care in America

[maryjk]

This is something I often hear missed. I’m not a fan of “big pharma” per se. However to be realistic we must factor in their costs for development, which involves a rather large amount of risk.

I’ve been part of two different drug trials. One of them, I am still currently part of.

First, let me say, I’m not making a ton of money doing this. In fact, it costs more in gas than they are willing to pay me.

We are currently testing a drug that is in Phase 2. It will be years before this drug is brought to market, and during those years, the drug company will spend billions. Yes, with a “B.”

Why, because people like me, and others that you probably know, suffer with diseases that are quite devastating. Many of these diseases we were born with. And some, yes, some were brought on by how the person was living.

And the risk? For a drug in the second phase, we are the first “sick” people to take this drug. They may have educated thoughts on outcomes, but let us be serious. This drug could kill me. I know for a fact that it makes me open to infection. And it reduces my body’s ability to fight infection.

I’m sure that if this drug makes it to market, it will be quite expensive. Remember, Billions spent.

Oh, and just an FYI, the other drug was in phase 3, and it didn’t come to market. So all of that money was wasted in that they didn’t get a drug that they could sell.

 

[Servant31]

I’m sorry to hear about the struggles, but congrats, and thank you, for doing something to improve the process.

It’s often easy to blame the “drug company” but the truths are often not what they initially seem.

However it’s also uncomfortable on both sides, as a former clinic supervisor I knew said that before the financial crisis one of the drug manufacturers took him and staff members (I’m assuming providers?) to a strip club and was throwing money around to court them for their products. I have a hard time believing this was an isolated incident in the industry tbh.

So I think the issues are complex, but we do need to factor in development costs, which are inherently higher risk.

Edit: BTW thank you again. I thought about this the last few mins and definitely applaud you. Many complain but you’ve put forth the effort and risk to improve things.

 

[Theo520]

However it’s also uncomfortable on both sides, as a former clinic supervisor I knew said that before the financial crisis one of the drug manufacturers took him and staff members (I’m assuming providers?) to a strip club and was throwing money around to court them for their products. I have a hard time believing this was an isolated incident in the industry tbh.

I don’t think it’s overly complex.

As I recall drug companies spend more on marketing than R&D,
more on strip clubs and buying off the doctors and politicians than on R&D.

 

[maryjk]

Keep in mind that “Marketing” also includes those television ads you see.

And even if a drug works, if doctors won’t prescribe it, it won’t make money.

 

[Theo520]

Keep in mind that “Marketing” also includes those television ads you see.

And even if a drug works, if doctors won’t prescribe it, it won’t make money.

I suspect they spend far less marketing the same drugs in foreign countries, yet they are still prescribed where needed. TV ads aren’t required for prescription drugs, unless you are trying to manipulate doctors in prescribing a treatment not essential to care.

Prescription drugs are advertised to the mass public far more than OTC meds (over the counter) that don’t require prescriptions.

 

[maryjk]

unless you are trying to manipulate doctors in prescribing a treatment not essential to care.

Or to make patients aware that there are options. We are pa added the days where doctor always knows best.

Having the option to go to another doctor or to bring up a different treatment plan is priceless…

 

[Theo520]

Having the option to go to another doctor or to bring up a different treatment plan is priceless…

How big pharma operates in the US increases costs and reduces choices in the USA, but not in other national markets.

 

[Servant31]

I’m not defending big pharma here. But without that financial drive many of those drugs wouldn’t exist in the first place. I think it’s more complex.

 

[Theo520]

I’m not defending big pharma here. But without that financial drive many of those drugs wouldn’t exist in the first place. I think it’s more complex.

nobody has suggested they shouldn’t recover their R&D costs and make a profit.
It just should be the US consumer that carries the bulk of that cost. Canadians, Germans, etc can all contribute to R&D expenses.

 

[Peeps]

nobody has suggested they shouldn’t recover their R&D costs and make a profit.
It just should be the US consumer that carries the bulk of that cost. Canadians, Germans, etc can all contribute to R&D expenses.

Just asking to learn–is the litigation issue a big thing in Germany and Canada? Here in the U.S., if someone volunteers for an R&D project for a drug, and then they suffer some kind of adverse incident, they will in all likelihood sue the pants off the company that was conducting the R&D, even if they signed something to the effect that they would not sue. A good lawyer will be able to find a way for them to sue and probably win millions.

Does this happen in Germany and Canada?

If not, it could be that this is why it’s cheaper for Canadians and Germans to contribute to R&D expenses–they don’t have to cover the cost of millions of dollars in lawsuit awards and lawyers’ fees.

Again, just asking. This may not be a factor at all. But I know that one reason why U.S. healthcare is soooooo expensive is because doctors order every test and procedure under the sun and moon and stars, even if they know it’s a waste of time and money–because if they fail to order even one little obscure, outdated but still-available test or procedure, a lawyer will catch their “error”, call it “gross malpractice and incompetence” and use it to win a huge cash award for their client at the lawsuit hearing.

 

[Theo520]

Just asking to learn–is the litigation issue a big thing in Germany and Canada? Here in the U.S., if someone volunteers for an R&D project for a drug, and then they suffer some kind of adverse incident, they will in all likelihood sue the pants off the company that was conducting the R&D, even if they signed something to the effect that they would not sue. A good lawyer will be able to find a way for them to sue and probably win millions.

Does this happen in Germany and Canada?

There is one R&D location for the drug, which is then sold world wide. It’s up to the drug company to select where they will do their R&D. I’m sure if employee lawsuits are a problem in one country, they will relocate.

Also, many of the drugs are developed by startups that then sell their product/IP to the global manufacturer.