High Intelligence and Theology

[marylauravicuna]

Thank you all for the responses, especially the charitable ones!

Yes. I struggle. Jesus was infinitely intelligent. He knew you were going to ask this question-before the Creation of the Universe. He created everyone with a special gift. These people have something you don’t have. They may not struggle with pride. God loved the lowliest even though He is infinitely more intelligent than all the intellectuals of the world. I will pray for you.
Pax

Thank you for the prayers! You don’t know how much these responses have helped, i.e. saying that everyone has some special gift, perhaps humility!

Saints:

Thomas Aquinas was known as the “Dumb Ox” And was one of the smartest theologians of all time.
St. Joseph of Cupertino was denied admission to the franciscan friars and then when he finally did get in, he was expelled, then he came back to be a stable hand and they saw how simple he was as a virtue.
Venerable Solanus Casey. He was a “doorman.” literally. THat was what he did. His body in incorrupt and he is on a path to sainthood.

When I think of intelligence and theology, I think of these men.

I appreciate this. I already know of St. Joseph of Cupertino and have watched his movie and have a copy of his book. I see that God gave him an extraordinary amount of miracles that definitely compensated for a low IQ. I did not know of Venerable Solanus Casey and am thankful to know of him.

I might have some advantage in this. I grew up in a very primitive place, and while i can’t say most people I knew were of low intelligence, they were most assuredly ignorant, for the most part. But they were all still personalities. They all had their likes and dislikes, their good aspects and their bad. Some were of exceptional religious faith, so much so that one was greatly tempted to think them saints notwithstanding their seeming lack of intelligence.

This is going to sound exceedingly weird, but I know a lawyer, a very good one, who (he confided to me) consciously looks for the Face of Christ in even the worst and most stupid of his clients. One thing he says he asks every single one: “What do you want your life to be like when this is over.” He says the answers can be astounding; often very searching and reflective. He says it gives him and (he hopes) them insight into life.

Thank you very much for sharing this! So what do they tend to say when he asks? What are some of the more astounding, searching, and reflective answers?

My wife works with retarded people. She sees to their health care on a daily basis. That’s low intelligence with a capital “L”. Yet, she likes them. She truly does, and in a way I would find very difficult. It would not be a stretch to say she loves them, given the way she goes the extra mile for them.

I don’t know. Maybe it’s one of those things (like most things, vices and virtues both) that is a habit that one either develops or doesn’t. For some it’s easier than it is for others.

You think that for some people it may just be a venial sin, i.e. pride, that they would have to keep working on and going to confession for all their lives, just like some people struggle with gluttony or alcoholism?

 

[marylauravicuna]

I think most of what we identify with intelligence really has more to do with interest, knowledge of terms, training, and/or point of view.

For example, how many people say they are bad at math, but can cut a receipe in half (with fractions) or compute a players RBI.

How many PHd’s can’t balance a checkbook or remember what day of the week it is.

Is a pilot more intelligent than their passengers?

So maybe what appears to be a lack of intelligence is simply that they really don’t care about that subject.

Good points, that some people can’t do math and some people can’t remember the day of the week. Some intelligence though is genetic, and may enable people to do things without a lot of extra help that others cannot do even with help. For example, some people cannot go through the professional training and certifcation to become a pilot, and might make a lot of mistakes if given the opportunity to fly the aircraft, causing more fatalties. They might still want the same income, etc. as the pilot or be offended at having a less prestigious job. What does God say in this situation to the pilot? Is it the pilot’s responsibility to both do his job and then donate extra money to these passengers to supplement their income and then socialize with them too, even though he is resentful about their lack of capability and many demands? I suppose he might think about when he is elderly and cannot do his own job?

 

[davidv]

Good points, that some people can’t do math and some people can’t remember the day of the week. Some intelligence though is genetic, and may enable people to do things without a lot of extra help that others cannot do even with help. For example, some people cannot go through the professional training and certifcation to become a pilot, and might make a lot of mistakes if given the opportunity to fly the aircraft, causing more fatalties. They might still want the same income, etc. as the pilot or be offended at having a less prestigious job. What does God say in this situation to the pilot? Is it the pilot’s responsibility to both do his job and then donate extra money to these passengers to supplement their income and then socialize with them too, even though he is resentful about their lack of capability and many demands? I suppose he might think about when he is elderly and cannot do his own job?

God says, love Him and your neighbors. He also said that those who are given much, much will be expected. How the pilot determines how best to do this is between he and God.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Aquinas was deemed quite intelligent by his peers, it was his students who called him a dumb ox.

Actually it was his fellow students who thought he was dumb. Their common teacher, Albert the Great, corrected their impression of Thomas by telling them someday Thomas’ bellowing would be heard throughout the world.

Theology is the highest of human sciences because it deal with the highest matters of all. Many great minds have been drawn to this science. But also some minds that you might wish had never been drawn to it.

 

[firead]

Is anyone here of exceptionally high intelligence and has struggled with valueing low intelligence people the way that God values them? How have you succeeded in doing so? Have you found any reading to be helpful? Are there any saints, theologians, or members of the hierarchy who have written on this subject.

It sounds like just pride or arrogance that you are struggling with. There are two things you can do to help yourself overcome it in this area. One is, as others have said, to look for the value in each person and learn to respect what they excel in that you may not value (I know people are are not intelligent or “book smart” but are great at working on cars or experts in some field or hobby that interests them). Another is to spend time around others who excel in an area you want to learn but aren’t great at and get used to having to ask for help/explanation and not being the “smartest person in the room”. It can be humbling and can also help you out in the future when you have to teach or explain things to others.

 

[marylauravicuna]

God says, love Him and your neighbors. He also said that those who are given much, much will be expected. How the pilot determines how best to do this is between he and God.

This bible quote came to my mind as well, but I didn’t type it. Whoever gave the recommendation for Venerable Solanus Casey, thanks again. It seems that he was in the situation where he was turned down from classes because he could not keep up with scholastic requirements.

This horrible crime was the occasion for the stirring in his heart of a desire to become a priest. In 1892, at the age of twenty-one, he entered St. Francis seminary in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which city at the time was heavily German. In fact, classes at the seminary were not given in English but only in German and Latin. Knowing neither, Bernard Casey could not keep up with the scholastic requirements. He was kindly advised that if the priesthood was his certain vocation he should pursue it in a monastery where he could receive an ordinatio simplex (a simple ordination). This would allow him to offer the Mass, but it would leave him without faculties to hear confessions. As he was praying over this before Our Lady’s statue in the chapel he heard her sweet voice telling him to “go to Detroit.” So this is what he did.

catholicism.org/venerable-solanus-casey-ofm-cap.html

And what we see again in this situation is the same thing as with St. Joseph of Cupertino, where he received a miracle.

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord.
Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.
Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,
other times there were one set of footprints.

                              This bothered me because I noticed 
                            that during the low periods of my life, 
                         when I was suffering from 
                     anguish, sorrow or defeat, 
                 I could see only one set of footprints. 

      So I said to the Lord, 
  "You promised me Lord, 
     that if I followed you, 
         you would walk with me always. 
               But I have noticed that during 
                      the most trying periods of my life 
                             there have only been one 
                                   set of footprints in the sand. 
                                       Why, when I needed you most, 
                                      you have not been there for me?" 

                             The Lord replied, 
                      "The times when you have 
              seen only one set of footprints, 
      is when I carried you."

Perhaps no matter how high one’s intelligence is on earth, God’s intelligence is infinitely greater so God sees the two people - the high intelligence and low intelligence - as relative equals in comparison to himself. Possibly, when confronted with someone who is hard to value due to low intelligence, the Christian thing to do is to reflect on how low one’s own intelligence is compared to God instead of focusing on the limitations of the person in question.

 

[marylauravicuna]

Is anyone here of exceptionally high intelligence and has struggled with valueing low intelligence people the way that God values them? How have you succeeded in doing so? Have you found any reading to be helpful? Are there any saints, theologians, or members of the hierarchy who have written on this subject.

It sounds like just pride or arrogance that you are struggling with. There are two things you can do to help yourself overcome it in this area. One is, as others have said, to look for the value in each person and learn to respect what they excel in that you may not value (I know people are are not intelligent or “book smart” but are great at working on cars or experts in some field or hobby that interests them). Another is to spend time around others who excel in an area you want to learn but aren’t great at and get used to having to ask for help/explanation and not being the “smartest person in the room”. It can be humbling and can also help you out in the future when you have to teach or explain things to others.

Thanks for the commentary. I really appreciate it. I looked up “pride” in wikipedia.org, and you’re probably right. However, that’s what I’m trying to do in this thread, figure out what the value is in each person.

Its a challenge if you don’t value anything that they do or want to learn anything that they “excel” in. How can you “learn to respect” something that you don’t value?

What if some people don’t excel in anything or you can’t figure out what it is they excel in? There are some people who are not intelligent or “book smart” but are also bad with cars and some people who are intelligent and “book smart” and are also good with cars.

 

[marylauravicuna]

I thought of God and Abraham and the destruction of Sodom in Genesis Chapter 18. Perhaps the thing to do is to think of at least one thing the person has done that seems of value even if not of high value and keep on focusing on that valueable thing whenever the person comes to mind. And if there is nothing at all the person has done, then to reflect on how God might easily see me as wretched.

Then Abraham drew near and said: “Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24Suppose there were fifty righteous people in the city; would you really sweep away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people within it? 25Far be it from you to do such a thing, to kill the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike! Far be it from you! Should not the judge of all the world do what is just?”g 26The LORD replied: If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake. 27Abraham spoke up again: “See how I am presuming to speak to my Lord, though I am only dust and ashes!h 28What if there are five less than fifty righteous people? Will you destroy the whole city because of those five?” I will not destroy it, he answered, if I find forty-five there. 29But Abraham persisted, saying, “What if only forty are found there?” He replied: I will refrain from doing it for the sake of the forty. 30Then he said, “Do not let my Lord be angry if I go on. What if only thirty are found there?” He replied: I will refrain from doing it if I can find thirty there. 31Abraham went on, “Since I have thus presumed to speak to my Lord, what if there are no more than twenty?” I will not destroy it, he answered, for the sake of the twenty. 32But he persisted: “Please, do not let my Lord be angry if I speak up this last time. What if ten are found there?” For the sake of the ten, he replied, I will not destroy it. 33The LORD departed as soon as he had finished speaking with Abraham, and Abraham returned home.

 

[firead]

Thanks for the commentary. I really appreciate it. I looked up “pride” in wikipedia.org, and you’re probably right. However, that’s what I’m trying to do in this thread, figure out what the value is in each person.

I’m glad you weren’t offended. That sounded a bit harsh on re-reading, but I wrote it that way because it is something I struggle with myself.

Its a challenge if you don’t value anything that they do or want to learn anything that they “excel” in. How can you “learn to respect” something that you don’t value?

I am not sure how to do that. One thing I have tried to learn, at least when it comes to a person’s job or a hobby that is productive or positive is to look at it sort of like a vocation. Some jobs and activities are looked down upon, but have to be done by somebody, and the value in something is more in a person’s approach and how they live and do things than what the actually do. If they do their best (as in being diligent, maybe even offering the work to God, not in this modern “just try” sense of the term), then there is honor and value in that of itself.

What if some people don’t excel in anything or you can’t figure out what it is they excel in? There are some people who are not intelligent or “book smart” but are also bad with cars and some people who are intelligent and “book smart” and are also good with cars.

True, but no one person is good or bad at everything. I left myself many areas to learn about because, when I was younger, my own pride kept me from pursuing any interest that I wasn’t one of the best at very early on. Now, I am trying to learn things I passed up and learning some humility because I struggle and find concepts hard to grasp. Personally, I am good in English and history and debate, but not so much at math. I am bad about looking down on people based on grammar, reading habits, and debate skills, but taking some school classes in computer engineering had forced me to learn in an area where I might be the one considered less smart or less intelligent for not picking it up at an earlier age, and it had helped me have more compassion for people who struggle in other areas.

 

[Jeremyah]

Is anyone here of exceptionally high intelligence and has struggled with valueing low intelligence people the way that God values them? How have you succeeded in doing so? Have you found any reading to be helpful? Are there any saints, theologians, or members of the hierarchy who have written on this subject?

Not to toot my own horn but I am of exceptionally high intelligence. By that, I mean, that I have overdeveloped, overly active frontal lobes, am very perceptive and have an IQ that places me in the range of the top 2% of most intelligent people in the world.

There is literally more distance between me and the average than there is between the average and people that are considered retarded.

With that said, I don’t have an inflated opinion of my own importance because of that. Since I’ve always been this way, the fact is no more remarkable to me than the color of my hair.

If you struggle with this, I’ll share with you why I DON’T struggle with it.

1. The problem isn’t really that one values people of lower intelligence less. Instead, the real problem is isolation.

One of the drawbacks to being this much more intelligent than the average is there is a lot fewer people to talk to. Yeah, I can talk to anybody about almost anything but I find very little of it to be interesting. I have no need for small talk because, almost instantly, I’m able to gleam the information that other people have to go through small talk to acquire. I find mundane life to be exceedingly boring and so I’m only occasionally drifting into the mundane world that most people inhabit. And so it’s a bit more difficult for me to find people that I can really form bonds with.

One is tempted to view less intelligent people as being less significant as an emotional defense. It’s about minimizing the pain of being “rejected” by minimizing the people that have “rejected you.” They haven’t 'rejected" you, YOU rejected them.

The way to overcome this is to realize it’s not a matter of who’s rejecting who, instead it’s a matter of matches and mismatches.

Look at it like this, suppose you are a country guitarist and you go to audition for a Thrash band. You’re not going to get the gig. But it isn’t because they rejected you or you rejected them. It’s because y’all are playing two different kinds of music.

1. People of lower intelligence have hearts and feelings that are every bit as real to them as your’s are to you. That’s what makes us all human and what separates us from computers. If it were about intelligence, then a person with lower intelligence might be like a computer with lower memory and capacity. But that’s not how we judge our own experiences. We judge our experiences by what we feel about ourselves and the world around us. And it’s through sharing these feelings that we form bonds with people.

If you really think about it, it’s not people of higher intelligence that we seek to have in our lives, but people of greater empathy. And it’s not people of lower intelligence that we fear but people of lower empathy.

1. Anyone, regardless of lesser or greater intelligence, is capable of acts of love and kindness. If you are hungry and someone gives you something to eat, do you stop to assess their intelligence before being grateful?

God told us to love each other as we love ourselves and as He has loved us. And he told us to do that by meeting each other’s needs. If someone is hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them water. Etc.

You can be the most intelligent person on the earth and if you aren’t doing any of these things and the retarded dude down the street is, his value is infinitely greater than your own.

Intelligence doesn’t increase your importance in these matters, only your responsibility. Because you are so much more intelligent than everyone else, you are that much more responsible doing the things that God has called you to do. Your value before God is in how much you actually do these things.

Since the more intelligent you are, the greater your capacity and therefore the greater your responsibility, then living up to your own potential importance in the scheme of things is more difficult for than it is for the average. And so ironically, in that sense, more intelligent people are most often quite a bit less important than every one else.

1. No one is an island unto themselves, nor does anyone have an infinite amount of time on their hands, nor an infinite amount of resources and so everyone without exception, including the very intelligent, has quite a bit of need for others to do jobs and meet needs that they can’t meet on their own. Even if you are intelligent enough to be an auto-mechanic, a physician, a janitor, a cook, a (you name it), there are only so many hours in the day and in a lifetime and you can’t do everything yourself. A lot of the jobs that we rely on to keep our world going are done by people that are quite a bit less intelligent than those of us with super high IQs. You’re automechanic might be 20 points lower on the IQ scale than you but he’s still freeing you up to allow you to devote your attention to other things. So are the people that built your house, installed your plumbing, built the roads and streets you drive on, etc.

Next time you start thinking that your intelligence makes you so much more valuable than all these other people, go build your own house, build your own plumbing (including building your own pipes from scratch), do your own electrical work (again, making your own wires), build your own car from scratch (inventing and building each part as you go), grow your own food completely by yourself, etc.

I promise you that if you were left on your own to do all the things that the less brainy people do, you’d learn their value REAL FAST.

 

[Jeremyah]

1. Devaluing people of lesser intelligence is really devaluing yourself. If you think people of lesser intelligence aren’t as valuable as us with super high IQs, I’ve got some really bad news for you and that is, “You’re one of the dummies, not one of us.” If you were one of us, you’d already know every thing that I explained in this post and understand just how utterly retarded the idea that “the super smart have more value than other people” really is. (Actually, I shouldn’t insult the retarded by attributing this idea to them. Every retarded person I have ever met was much smarter than to entertain this idea).

Chances are that if you are devaluing those of lesser intelligence, it’s because you feel that you are not as important or valuable as those of greater intelligence than yourself. And they are out there. Don’t delude yourself for a second. No matter how smart you think you are, there is always someone much, much smarter than you. There’s more distance between me and the average than there is between the average and the retarded. But there is also people for whom there is more distance between them and myself than there is between me and the average. Same with you.

So first, you need to realize that you are just as valuable to the world and to God as those people are. And then you need to realize that retarded Johnny down the street is just as valuable and important as yourself.

I hope this helps.

 

[marylauravicuna]

I’m glad you weren’t offended. That sounded a bit harsh on re-reading, but I wrote it that way because it is something I struggle with myself.

It was a bit harsh. Thanks for posting because I valued the insight more than I was “offended” by the harshness.

I am not sure how to do that. One thing I have tried to learn, at least when it comes to a person’s job or a hobby that is productive or positive is to look at it sort of like a vocation. Some jobs and activities are looked down upon, but have to be done by somebody, and the value in something is more in a person’s approach and how they live and do things than what the actually do. If they do their best (as in being diligent, maybe even offering the work to God, not in this modern “just try” sense of the term), then there is honor and value in that of itself.

What about people who aren’t doing any sort of job, just living off of welfare, or those who are doing a job, i.e. fast food, but with a large amount of demands and complaints. Perhaps you are suggesting that there also exist people who have the same job situation who have a better approach, more character. If I were to expose myself to these sorts of people, I might value their character - so the issue of concern here is not “intelligence” but “character”?

 

[Jeremyah]

What about people who aren’t doing any sort of job, just living off of welfare, or those who are doing a job, i.e. fast food, but with a large amount of demands and complaints. Perhaps you are suggesting that there also exist people who have the same job situation who have a better approach, more character. If I were to expose myself to these sorts of people, I might value their character - so the issue of concern here is not “intelligence” but “character”?

Here’s harsh but insightful for you: No one made you God to asses just how valuable and important anyone is to God, including yourself. At the end of the day, it is for God and God alone to judge us.

 

[laircy]

I might struggle with this sometimes. However, one time I volunteered to work at an event for adults and kids with Down Syndrome. They are some of the kindest and sweetest people I ever met, and could not help but see God’s love in them. It was a humbling experience.
I try to remember that for every person I find myself thinking that I am “better” than, they are surely better than me in some area.

 

[marylauravicuna]

I hope this helps.

Thank you for your posts and this message.

(1) For isolation, there are far fewer people of exceptionally high intelligence than of midrange intelligence so fewer opportunities to make friends with like people. However, with the internet, phone, and airplanes, I think with effort, that issue can be overcome. I think isolation is more likely due to low social skills, and blaming high intelligence is a cop-out.

I don’t appreciate harsh posts, but directness is appreciated and can sometimes come across as harsh so I try to have a thick skin. Making “intentionally” harsh posts will contribute to your isolation, but is not that related to high or low intelligence, is it?

Autistic people tend to have higher intelligence. I wasn’t thinking about the combination of high intelligence AND a neurological disorder. However, high intelligence and neurological disturbances are correlated, making high intelligence simply a variant of normal just like low intelligence… think “A Beautiful Mind.” ** From this perspective, it become a lot easier to value low intelligence people when you think of high intelligence people as variants from normal and neurologically disturbed. ** So very helpful!

(2) Empathy is generally higher in people of high intelligence than low intelligence, because people’s situations are complex and high intelligence people do better with complexity. That being said, it is possible to be high intelligence but with low empathy.

(3) and (4) The point on meeting others’ needs is good. Some people are so low intelligence that they aren’t meeting other people’s needs. Please read a summary of the book “Of Mice and Men” and analyze it for me. Its a book that has stayed with me, and the key character is “Lennie”, a mentally disabled man. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Mice_and_Men

(5) Every person in a military knows to sacrifice his life for a more important person. That’s also at the essence of being a saint, i.e. St. Gianna Molla sacrificing for her unborn child, and the “humility” of Jesus, sacrificing his life because the father wanted it. Think that conversely, great sinners or perpetrators of massive evil have less value to the world.

 

[Jeremyah]

Thank you for your posts and this message.

(1) For isolation, there are far fewer people of exceptionally high intelligence than of midrange intelligence so fewer opportunities to make friends with like people. However, with the internet, phone, and airplanes, I think with effort, that issue can be overcome. I think isolation is more likely due to low social skills, and blaming high intelligence is a cop-out.

Yeah it is a cop out. It always has been, even before the invention of the internet and smart phones. That was precisely my point.

It’s easier to meet people with similar intelligence and interest now that it has ever been before in the past. Also, people tend to gravitate toward professions that attract other people of similar intelligence and interests.

The problem of isolation though arises, though, before "one arrives. Until one begins there professional life, the vast majority of everyone they come across in daily life is going to be of average intelligence and of neurotypical perception. The high IQs and aspies/autistics might gravitate together but they’ll always be hanging out in much smaller cliques than the average neutotypical and this is what leads to the “us against them” mentality where the “us” is over valued and the “them” is devalued.

I don’t appreciate harsh posts, but directness is appreciated and can sometimes come across as harsh so I try to have a thick skin. Making “intentionally” harsh posts will contribute to your isolation, but is not that related to high or low intelligence, is it?

No, it’s related to a lack of tact. I’m a very blunt person. I’m usually not “intentionally” harsh unless I think it’s called for. But at the same time, my perception of harsh doesn’t match other people’s perceptions of harsh.

Autistic people tend to have higher intelligence. I wasn’t thinking about the combination of high intelligence AND a neurological disorder. However, high intelligence and neurological disturbances are correlated, making high intelligence simply a variant of normal just like low intelligence… think “A Beautiful Mind.” ** From this perspective, it become a lot easier to value low intelligence people when you think of high intelligence people as variants from normal and neurologically disturbed. ** So very helpful!

Well, that’s not where I was going with that. I don’t see autistics as being necessarily disturbed (although many are), just different. Autism, in a nutshell, is when some parts of the brain are overdeveloped while others are underdeveloped.

I have asperger’s syndrome which seems to be characterized by overdeveloped frontal lobes and underdeveloped corpus callosum. Although this causes me a number of “challenges” that neurotypicals aren’t faced with, this also gives me a number of strengths that neurotypicals don’t have.

One of which is that my emotions do not confuse my intellect (because they are at best only loosely connected).

I, like most aspies, have an abnormally high IQ, which is the measure of analytical intelligence. The human intelligence though is complex and analytical intelligence is but one facet. There are a few ways in which neurotypicals are “smarter” than me.

Doesn’t make me or them or anyone any more or less valuable than anyone else. Just different.

(2) Empathy is generally higher in people of high intelligence than low intelligence, because people’s situations are complex and high intelligence people do better with complexity. That being said, it is possible to be high intelligence but with low empathy.

I’m not sure I agree with that except for maybe only as a generality. I haven’t ever read any statistics on it but I haven’t observed that intelligence is really that closely related to analytical intelligence but rather emotional intelligence. Many autistics and people with personality disorders are very analytically intelligent but tend to lack empathy. Lacking empathy is the basic common ground of all types of personality disorders. The emotional responces of autistics don’t line up with neurotypicals and so they are often unable to empathize with neurotypicals because they are ignorant of how neurotypicals emotionally respond to the world.

(3) and (4) The point on meeting others’ needs is good. Some people are so low intelligence that they aren’t meeting other people’s needs. Please read a summary of the book “Of Mice and Men” and analyze it for me. Its a book that has stayed with me, and the key character is “Lennie”, a mentally disabled man. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Mice_and_Men

I’ve read it and studied it in high school. Also I’ve seen the earlier movie version (not the remake though).

Aside from the inherent worth that all people have as the children of God, Lennie’s value as a human being was in the emotional needs he fulfilled for George. For George, he was like both a constant and loyal companion and kind of like an over sized son.

The tragedy of the story was in that he didn’t understand his own strength and the physical power he had over other living creatures. Mentally, he was helpless before other people and so he didn’t understand that physically, others were helpless before him.

If he didn’t have value as a person, if he didn’t fulfill any need that George had, if he were merely a conscienceless psychopath, then the need for George to kill him wouldn’t have been tragic.

 

[Jeremyah]

(5) Every person in a military knows to sacrifice his life for a more important person. That’s also at the essence of being a saint, i.e. St. Gianna Molla sacrificing for her unborn child, and the “humility” of Jesus, sacrificing his life because the father wanted it. Think that conversely, great sinners or perpetrators of massive evil have less value to the world.

In the military, it’s not the person but the rank that is more important (I’ve been in the military and I can tell by your statement, you have not). And the rank often has little or nothing to do with IQ.

As for the saints, every person is to count their own life below that of everyone elses and to count everyone else’s life more important than their own, regardless of intelligence or lack thereof.

 

[Ridgerunner]

answers?

You think that for some people it may just be a venial sin, i.e. pride, that they would have to keep working on and going to confession for all their lives, just like some people struggle with gluttony or alcoholism?

I don’t know what various people have told him. Guess I ought to inquire. If I get a chance, I’ll tell some of it.

I don’t know about when sins of pride are mortal or venial. I just know that we are told by the Church that we are to seek to see the Face of Christ in every person. If we don’t do that, it seems to me, we are in peril.

It can be interesting to think about the difference between “measurable” intelligence and wisdom. We think IQ is everything, or perhaps erudite conversation. But that doesn’t mean the person is wise. I have known people whose IQs are probably not very high, but who have significant wisdom. I have also known very “intelligent”, but foolish, people.

 

[Ridgerunner]

(2) Empathy is generally higher in people of high intelligence than low intelligence, because people’s situations are complex and high intelligence people do better with complexity. That being said, it is possible to be high intelligence but with low empathy.

As a veteran of many a K of C collection for the retarded, i would very much question this. We have frequently commented to each other, when collecting outside Walmart or whatever, how well-off looking people will dodge and avoid contributing, while the low-income looking people will contribute. And it seems like the rattier they are, the more generous they are.

I realize one’s intelligence does not necessarily tell anything about one’s prosperity, but there is often a connection.

But I have come to the conclusion that if I ever found myself down and out, the most likely sort of person to come to my aid would be someone who is on the low end of the economic scale, not someone on the high end.