"High tech Mass"

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johnmann said:
To attract people who like those things.
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So the most personal encounter possible with God Himself is no longer sufficient? Is the Eucharist and the Sacrifice of Calvary in need of lasers? (We’ve already got smoke machines - they’re called thuribles, and they should be used as often as possible)
 
Monkey1976 said:
So the most personal encounter possible with God Himself is no longer sufficient? Is the Eucharist and the Sacrifice of Calvary in need of lasers? (We’ve already got smoke machines - they’re called thuribles, and they should be used as often as possible)
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In that case, we should do away with choirs, organs, and incense too. Is the most personal encounter possible with God himself no longer sufficient? Is the Eucharist and the Sacrifice of Calvary in need of candles?
 
johnmann said:
In that case, we should do away with choirs, organs, and incense too. Is the most personal encounter possible with God himself no longer sufficient? Is the Eucharist and the Sacrifice of Calvary in need of candles?
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Look at why those things exist. They have nothing to do with “getting people interested” - they are all about rendering to God the highest quality of worship which we are able. Now look at the reasons presented for this. Nothing to do with rendering honor and worship to God, everything about some false idea of “inculturation” which some take to be a license to distort Holy Mass into whatever they think might “play best”.
 
Monkey1976 said:
Look at why those things exist. They have nothing to do with “getting people interested” - they are all about rendering to God the highest quality of worship which we are able. Now look at the reasons presented for this. Nothing to do with rendering honor and worship to God, everything about some false idea of “inculturation” which some take to be a license to distort Holy Mass into whatever they think might “play best”.
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In addition to the fact that God commanded a lot of what we have in the Mass, like incense and candles.
 
Monkey1976 said:
Look at why those things exist. They have nothing to do with “getting people interested” - they are all about rendering to God the highest quality of worship which we are able. Now look at the reasons presented for this. Nothing to do with rendering honor and worship to God, everything about some false idea of “inculturation” which some take to be a license to distort Holy Mass into whatever they think might “play best”.
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No, they exist, in large part, for the benefit of the people. What worship is offered during the homily? It’s purely didactic. The Mass is both latreutic and didactic. We give and we receive.
 
johnmann said:
No, they exist, in large part, for the benefit of the people. What worship is offered during the homily? It’s purely didactic. The Mass is both latreutic and didactic. We give and we receive.
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The mass is not a rock concert. It is not an entertainment event. It is a SACRIFICE.

Flashy lights and steam machines distract from the true purpose of the mass, which is prayer.
 
dshix said:
The mass is not a rock concert. It is not an entertainment event. It is a SACRIFICE.

Flashy lights and steam machines distract from the true purpose of the mass, which is prayer.
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You mean like candles and thuribles?

I agree which is why I said it may be done prior to or after Mass, not during. On the other hand, there are some people who think liturgy should never try to attract people. They confuse personal preference for universal truth. The Church is in the business of saving souls, not enforcing musical standards. The latter is in the service of the former.
 
johnmann said:
No, they exist, in large part, for the benefit of the people. What worship is offered during the homily? It’s purely didactic. The Mass is both latreutic and didactic. We give and we receive.
Click to expand...
dshix said:
The mass is not a rock concert. It is not an entertainment event. It is a SACRIFICE.

Flashy lights and steam machines distract from the true purpose of the mass, which is prayer.
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Exactly. The Mass is a prayer.
johnmann said:
You mean like candles and thuribles?

I agree which is why I said it may be done prior to or after Mass, not during. On the other hand, there are some people who think liturgy should never try to attract people. They confuse personal preference for universal truth. The Church is in the business of saving souls, not enforcing musical standards. The latter is in the service of the former.
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Come on… Candles are not flashy lights, and incense is more than smoke. God commanded incense.

One needs to find a balance between the appropriate and the attractive. The former is more important, since it is principally Salvation and the Mass itself that attract, not some musical programme.
 
johnmann said:
You mean like candles and thuribles?

I agree which is why I said it may be done prior to or after Mass, not during. On the other hand, there are some people who think liturgy should never try to attract people. They confuse personal preference for universal truth. The Church is in the business of saving souls, not enforcing musical standards. The latter is in the service of the former.
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I sing in a Latin mass choir. I sing polyphony, chant, and hymns.

I have learned, in an intimate way, just how amazingly chant and polyphony raises up the soul to prayer. It is beautiful in itself, but it does not distract from what it points to, that is, the Mass. It brings peace and joy to the spirit of all who hear it.

I have also served at the altar. The candles, incense, bells, and all other things used in mass accomplish that same goal: to direct attention to the Mass.

__

Now, I’ve also been to rock concerts, with videos, light-effects and smoke/fog machines. These special effects fascinate the audience, who immediately begin to try and locate the origin of these effects. I myself instantly want to see where the lazer is coming from, who is causing the light effects, and where the smoke machine is. These are distracting, and in the context of a mass they would be very distracting.
 
dshix said:
I sing in a Latin mass choir. I sing polyphony, chant, and hymns.

I have learned, in an intimate way, just how amazingly chant and polyphony raises up the soul to prayer. It is beautiful in itself, but it does not distract from what it points to, that is, the Mass. It brings peace and joy to the spirit of all who hear it.

I have also served at the altar. The candles, incense, bells, and all other things used in mass accomplish that same goal: to direct attention to the Mass.
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YES! YES! 🙂 Preach it! :highprayer: :blessyou:

I do not know a single person who dislikes chant. It is of such marvellous beauty, solemnity and peace. Really, I think if people put aside their biases about “old and boring stuff”, they can discover the true glory of such music.

God bless you!
 
CutlerB said:
YES! YES! 🙂 Preach it! :highprayer: :blessyou:

I do not know a single person who dislikes chant. It is of such marvellous beauty, solemnity and peace. Really, I think if people put aside their biases about “old and boring stuff”, they can discover the true glory of such music.

God bless you!
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Thank you, and God Bless. 🙂 👍
 
CutlerB said:
I just came across an article that reports on a travelling priest in Germany who has developed his own form of Holy Mass. He calls that project “Veni!” (Which looks like Latin in meaningless grammar) and aims it at young people to bring them back to Mass.

In those services, the priest includes videos, light-effects and smoke/fog machines. In some churches, he even put carpets and couches. Apparently, this sort of thing is going well with people, he says.

What do you think of such Masses? Are they permitted?
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Do you happen to have a source from where you read this. I’m interested in reading it. Thanks 😃
 
dshix said:
The mass is not a rock concert. It is not an entertainment event. It is a SACRIFICE.

Flashy lights and steam machines distract from the true purpose of the mass, which is prayer.
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The purpose of the Mass is to render worship to God.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
The purpose of the Mass is to render worship to God.

-Tim-
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Was that actually targeted toward me or someone else? I never said anything otherwise.
It’s always odd when someone says something I’ve been saying the whole time in a way that it seems as if they are trying to disagree with me. 😛
 
dshix said:
Was that actually targeted toward me or someone else? I never said anything otherwise.
It’s always odd when someone says something I’ve been saying the whole time in a way that it seems as if they are trying to disagree with me. 😛
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I’m sorry. It did seem like a drive-by post. I didn’t mean it to be a hit and should have explained what I meant. I’m sorry if I upset you.

Several people on this thread said that the purpose of Mass is prayer. I am disagreeing with that. I am saying that the purpose of Mass is worship, not prayer.

Worship and prayer are not the same thing. Many non-Catholics assume that we worship Mary because we pray to Mary but they are not the same thing.

We owe God worship. It is his by right. When we withhold something which belongs to someone else by right, it is an injustice. To not worship God is an injustice to God. That is why the Church, as God’s authority on earth, has the right to tell us what the minimum requirement for worship is - Sundays and holy days of obligation.

Mass satisfies the requirement that we worship God. Its primary function is to render worship. I can pray anywhere but that does not fulfill my obligation to worship.

-Tim-
 
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