Higher Gas Prices vs. Alternative Sources of Energy

[PLAL]

Right now we have gases prices increasing at a alarming rate. Both Presidential Candidates and Congress do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska to increase the supply of oil which would reduce the price of gas. We can reduce the price of gas by reducing demand and increasing supply.

Here’s my questions to you…

Are you for drilling for oil in the Canada/Alaska as a short term solution to rising gasoline prices until we find alternative sources of energy?

Would you vote for a Presidential Candidate who does not have a short term plan to stop alarming rising gasoline prices?

How high would the price of a gallon of gasoline have to be in order for you to support drilling for oil in Canada/Alaska?

Would you buy a hydrogen car in 5 years if they are mass produced?

Are you considering downsizing from your current vehicle?

What do you think of those who do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska but offer no solution to alarming rising gasoline prices?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Right now we have gases prices increasing at a alarming rate. Both Presidential Candidates and Congress do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska to increase the supply of oil which would reduce the price of gas. We can reduce the price of gas by reducing demand and increasing supply.

Here’s my questions to you…

Are you for drilling for oil in the Canada/Alaska as a short term solution to rising gasoline prices until we find alternative sources of energy? Yes. What good is it in the ground, and why is Canda and Alaska more important than the Louisiana Gulf Coast?I would also add the federal lands and all coastal waters.

Would you vote for a Presidential Candidate who does not have a short term plan to stop alarming rising gasoline prices? Possibly, as long as he favored realistic policies leading to enhanced energy sources of every kind. I frankly do not think any presidential candidate has a short term plan worthy of mention.

How high would the price of a gallon of gasoline have to be in order for you to support drilling for oil in Canada/Alaska? ** The price ten years ago.**

Would you buy a hydrogen car in 5 years if they are mass produced? Depends on safety, reliability, cost.

Are you considering downsizing from your current vehicle? Not anytime soon. No. Cars also cost money, and it would take a lot of gas saving to pay for a new car. It doesn’t pencil out for me. I do not plan to putt along in a Trabant until I am absolutely forced to do it.

What do you think of those who do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska but offer no solution to alarming rising gasoline prices?

** I think they have no concern at all for the welfare of others. **

 

[whiteknite]

Nothing wrong with the supply, Its the bidding that affects us all…
Eastern countrys are out bidding for more oil and thats what putting the prices up…The G8 summit meeting is trying to get it more stable…
Its all about £$ just greed…

:knight1:

 

[1ke]

I’d drill *through *a polar bear to get to the oil in Alaska. But, there also has to be a corresponding refinery capacity increase, too.

(And, the amount of oil and natural gas in Alaska would not be a “temporary” solution, between that and coal in the west we could be energy independent tomorrow and for hundreds of years to come… and if we built more nuclear plants… forever).

I would buy an air powered car – which should be out next year unless our government continues protectionist positions to keep it out.

I don’t think either candidate can produce an effective short term plan unless they whack the Fed and tackle the devalued dollar. Oh, but wait, that makes the US debt disappear and social security payments more affordable for the government. Can you say “rooster in the hen house?”

 

[KathleenElsie]

Right now we have gases prices increasing at a alarming rate. Both Presidential Candidates and Congress do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska to increase the supply of oil which would reduce the price of gas. We can reduce the price of gas by reducing demand and increasing supply.

Here’s my questions to you…

Are you for drilling for oil in the Canada/Alaska as a short term solution to rising gasoline prices until we find alternative sources of energy? Yes

Would you vote for a Presidential Candidate who does not have a short term plan to stop alarming rising gasoline prices? No

How high would the price of a gallon of gasoline have to be in order for you to support drilling for oil in Canada/Alaska? 39 cents

Would you buy a hydrogen car in 5 years if they are mass produced? Only if we needed another car.

Are you considering downsizing from your current vehicle? With seven living at home? No way.

What do you think of those who do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska but offer no solution to alarming rising gasoline prices?I believe that are not thinking of the best interest of the USA.

 

[Howard_Roark]

Are you for drilling for oil in the Canada/Alaska as a short term solution to rising gasoline prices until we find alternative sources of energy?

Of course. There’s nothing particularly special about Alaska. It’s large area with small population that apparently has useable mineral resources and some bears. So? Texas, where I live, produces oil…we’re not dead and neitherare our large mammals. Deer eat all of our yard plants. Oil rigs haven’t magically killed them, I wish they did.

Would you vote for a Presidential Candidate who does not have a short term plan to stop alarming rising gasoline prices?

Yes, because there is basically NOTHING a politician can do about the market price of ANYTHING. (Where did you go to school???)

How high would the price of a gallon of gasoline have to be in order for you to support drilling for oil in Canada/Alaska?\

$0.01

Would you buy a hydrogen car in 5 years if they are mass produced?

What a silly question. How much do they cost? How many “hydrogen stations” exist? Do they blow up like bombs the way compressed natural gas vehicles tend to?

Are you considering downsizing from your current vehicle?

No. I need a truck for work. I am considering rasing our prices to pay for gas for the truck.

What do you think of those who do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska but offer no solution to alarming rising gasoline prices?

That they are weirdos.

Be aware that you are focusing in on a side issue. Alaska ain’t the only place on Earth with oil. Also, any “plan” the government makes is suspect. Private enterprise makes the best plans, and they do so best without unreasonable government restrictions.

 

[Al_Masetti]

It’s important to start drilling now.

Too many folks just whine about … well, it’s gonna take ten years to get any meaningful results.

Drill now and drill here. Once the market realizes that increased supplies are on the way, the prices will drop.

Yes we do need more refineries. Seems to me we used to have a lot of them; but they have consolidated production into a smaller number of refineries, which makes us more vulnerable to disruption in the event of accidents, fires, explosions … which happen with some frequency … God help us, acts of terrorism.

What we could do is visit all those abandoned refinery sites and build new ones four times the size at those locations.

Our liberal Congress has just now forbade developing shale oil in Wyoming and Montana. The private sector has the money and is more than happy to do the work. The governors of those states want to do it. But our liberal Congress says “NO”.

The hydrogen car is one of those unicorn technologies. Sounds nice, but it’s totally all myth. Might work in a lab, but the logistics of providing hydrogen as a daily fuel is absurd. If compressed, then hydrogen needs a very strong and very heavy pressure vessel. If liquified, which is an extremely expensive process, then we have to deal with just about the coldest cryogenic liquid on the planet.

**

 

[Calliso]

You know as much as I am against developing national refuges…I really donlt see how we are going to have much of a choice in too much longer. As for other areas in the United States I am pretty sure most of those are oil shale…here is a pretty good but long piece talking about that and some of the many issues with getting oil from there srb.stanford.edu/nur/GP200A%20Papers/elliot_grunewald_paper.pdf But of course once again will we even have a choice but to for the short run? Really we should have started to SERIOUSLY look for alternative energy sources long ago. Developed better mass transit systems. P eople who donlt actually need a big car donlt drive one. Cause lets get real most people in the United States driving a SUV or a truck on a daily basic probably donlt need it. Course there are exceptions for people with large families and those that have to use them for their jobs but they are exceptions most people I know that drive a large vehicle do so because they want to not because of need. . But nope we didn;t…and now look where we are. But I guess we thought the good times of cheap oil would last forever… Really though the first post in this thread christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7245802&page=2 illustrates probably just how much of the rest of the developed world feels about us whining about high gas prices. Ahh well what is done is done I guess, hind sight is 20/20 they say.

 

[Howard_Roark]

Calliso…how blithely you talk about getting people out of a certain kind of car…without establishing how it’s anyone else’s business what kind of car other people drive.

And, guess what - Oil is a really, really efficient fuel. It’s very high in energy density and easy to transport. “Alternative sources” are mostly pipe dreams. Only nuclear to electric conversion has a prayer of really doing anything for society like oil has done.

All this talk about how “we” should do (or should have done) this or that really has no bearing on reality, where technological developments cannot be mandated just because “We” (I presume you mean the US Federal government…what other “we” exists in this situation?) think they ought to exist. Fact is, people with a desire for profit have been working hard on “alternative sources of energy” for decades…that doesn’t change the fact that oil is a really, really, really good source of fuel compared to everything else.

Not to be too hard on you, but there’s a lot of scary assumptions implicit in your post that I think need to be pointed out.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Right now we have gases prices increasing at a alarming rate. Both Presidential Candidates and Congress do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska to increase the supply of oil which would reduce the price of gas. We can reduce the price of gas by reducing demand and increasing supply.

And getting rid of speculators.

Here’s my questions to you…

Are you for drilling for oil in the Canada/Alaska as a short term solution to rising gasoline prices until we find alternative sources of energy?

Actually, I just heard on Thom Hartman that there are millions of barrels of oil available on land leased to the oil companies that they are not tapping. Not because they can’t. They have the lease. They don’t want to because they’re making money hand over fist in the current climate.

I just confirmed it here: msnbc.msn.com/id/5111184

So, I would say that two things need to be done:

First, get rid of speculation on the oil market.

Second, any lease that is not being tapped is to be revoked and sold to another company with the proviso that they tap it.

Would you vote for a Presidential Candidate who does not have a short term plan to stop alarming rising gasoline prices?

Nope.

How high would the price of a gallon of gasoline have to be in order for you to support drilling for oil in Canada/Alaska?

Tap the unused leases first. Then and only then would I consider supporting such a scheme.

Would you buy a hydrogen car in 5 years if they are mass produced?

If I can afford one.

Are you considering downsizing from your current vehicle?

I already own a compact sedan. I’ve started taking the Metro to work and using it on weekends on occasion. Some trips still require the car.

What do you think of those who do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska but offer no solution to alarming rising gasoline prices?

I think this question is a straw man as it is based on an either/or. Either you support drilling in Canada/Alaska or you offer no solution. Neither one are viable at this point.

 

[Calliso]

Calliso…how blithely you talk about getting people out of a certain kind of car…without establishing how it’s anyone else’s business what kind of car other people drive.

And, guess what - Oil is a really, really efficient fuel. It’s very high in energy density and easy to transport. “Alternative sources” are mostly pipe dreams. Only nuclear to electric conversion has a prayer of really doing anything for society like oil has done.

All this talk about how “we” should do (or should have done) this or that really has no bearing on reality, where technological developments cannot be mandated just because “We” (I presume you mean the US Federal government…what other “we” exists in this situation?) think they ought to exist. Fact is, people with a desire for profit have been working hard on “alternative sources of energy” for decades…that doesn’t change the fact that oil is a really, really, really good source of fuel compared to everything else.

Not to be too hard on you, but there’s a lot of scary assumptions implicit in your post that I think need to be pointed out.

I was simply pointing out that fact that most people that drive those huge SUVS and trucks and what not on a daily basic likely donlt NEED to. But like I also pointed about there are exceptions like people who NEED them for their jobs and people who have large families and who have no choice but to drive a large car! As for oil yes it is a good source of fuel but it is also very enviromentally damaging to acquire not to mention in many ways when it is in use. Also oil is finite there isn;t an infinite amount of oil on the planet. Also just because we haven;t found or perfected alternative fuels yet does not mean we should just throw in the towel and say lets just use oil…cause then what happens when the oil runs out or really gets scarce? And finding alternative fuels is possible my husband just went to a car show with humvee powered by hydrogen the problem now is just making the system small enough to work in conventional cars.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Here’s my questions to you…

Are you for drilling for oil in the Canada/Alaska as a short term solution to rising gasoline prices until we find alternative sources of energy?

Short and long term…yes. Coal shale in CO and WY, wind farms off the coasts, solar farms in the desert, nuclear plants…

Would you vote for a Presidential Candidate who does not have a short term plan to stop alarming rising gasoline prices?

Depends on what the plan is but we dont elect a king or dictator no matter how much they act like one.

How high would the price of a gallon of gasoline have to be in order for you to support drilling for oil in Canada/Alaska?

$1

Would you buy a hydrogen car in 5 years if they are mass produced?

Probably not. Depends

Are you considering downsizing from your current vehicle?

No, but I will ride the motorcycle a lot more (50 mpg)

What do you think of those who do not want to drill in Canada/Alaska but offer no solution to alarming rising gasoline prices?

The same as those who complain about high taxes but have no solution or brass to act on real change. The same as those who oppose abortion personally but allow others the ‘right to choose’. Not much.

 

[Calliso]

Now I am curious I can understand why people wouldn;t drive a hydrogen car now. But how about in the future if and when they are “perfected” how about then? And if not why not?

 

[Holly3278]

** I think they have no concern at all for the welfare of others. **

I totally agree. I think that the greedy oil companies have absolutely no concern at all for the welfare of other people.

Nothing wrong with the supply, Its the bidding that affects us all…
Eastern countrys are out bidding for more oil and thats what putting the prices up…The G8 summit meeting is trying to get it more stable…
Its all about £$ just greed…

:knight1:

Yep, it’s greed. Something needs to be done about it and fast too. But what?

 

[whiteknite]

I totally agree. I think that the greedy oil companies have absolutely no concern at all for the welfare of other people.

Yep, it’s greed. Something needs to be done about it and fast too. But what?

As usual we can do nothing because our Goverments are cashing in on it too…
We use to call BP= Blairs petrol…Not sure if Gordon brown is in on the Oil thing too but he seems like hes in a world of his own, lol
Personaly i see all this credit crunch was here exactly to the yr 100yrs ago. When JPMorgon created a panick and bought up all the banks that fell…Hes doing it now still but diference now is its Oil too.
I think there going for a 1 Currency for as many of the Countrys as they can.
By telling us it will help the buying/selling of all products, As we know Oil=Cash, We will be that strangled by debt and Oil panick that we will agree to all there terms just to make life easy again…
I might be wrong but i’m sure somewhere in this it makes sense…

:knight1:

 

[mary_bobo]

I totally agree. I think that the greedy oil companies have absolutely no concern at all for the welfare of other people.

Yep, it’s greed. Something needs to be done about it and fast too. But what?

If you check, I think you will find that the oil companies do not make as much on a percentage basis as you think. It’s the government that has no concern for the welfare of people. They are much more beholden to the various groups that support them i.e. radical environmentalists, unions, etc. Meanwhile, other countries are drilling for oil not far from our shores which we sit and twiddle our thumbs. If their is oil to be gotten off of our shores, should we not be the ones getting it while we figure out useful alternatives?

 

[whiteknite]

Out of the £1.30+ i pay at the station the british Goverment take 80% for tax.
Then we now have the petrol stations wanting to up there prices so they can make some more, Now we got the lorry drivers wanting a raise in wages…
I hear on tv this morning our prices are set to double in the next few months.

:knight1:

 

[Howard_Roark]

Calliso wrote:

*I was simply pointing out that fact that most people that drive those huge SUVS and trucks and what not on a daily basic likely donlt NEED to. But like I also pointed about there are exceptions like people who NEED them for their jobs and people who have large families and who have no choice but to drive a large car! *

And I pointed out that people can drive what they want to. Still waiting on any kind of response to that one.

As for oil yes it is a good source of fuel but it is also very enviromentally damaging to acquire not to mention in many ways when it is in use.

Funny, we have plenty of oil drilling activity here in my area…it doesn’t cause us or our overpopulatied wild animals any particular bother. Every seem a pumpjack running? It just hums along…pumping. Oooo…dangerous. As far as the environmental effects of buring hydrocarbons…what are they? Anyone that thinks global warming is “proven” is just ignorant of the situation and needs to study up.

• Also oil is finite there isn;t an infinite amount of oil on the planet.*

And I say…so? That’s not any reason not to look for what exists. it’s a darn convenient chemical, as I noted.

• Also just because we haven;t found or perfected alternative fuels yet does not mean we should just throw in the towel and say lets just use oil…cause then what happens when the oil runs out or really gets scarce?*

Um…the price goes up. This causes people to seek alternatives, as a natural consequence of human behavior. Leave people alone, they’ll figure this out for themselves. The entire system of cars, trucks, gasoline, gas stations…all of it developed naturally. People are rational in their economic choices, they value things accurately based on how hard or easy they are to obtain.

• And finding alternative fuels is possible my husband just went to a car show with humvee powered by hydrogen the problem now is just making the system small enough to work in conventional cars.*

Any idea where hydrogran comes from? From electrolyzing water. This requires electricity. The electricity comes from…drumroll…oil! And coal. And natural gas. Car companies are showing all of these “alternative fuel cars” at shows, and they have no economic reason to inform consumers that all of these “alternative fuels” use more gasoline to create than the gasoline they replace. It’s a scam, all of it.

What bugs me, personally, is that the american populace beleives all these scams. My TV is full of ads about “going green”…my magazines runneth over with alternative fuels ads…and it’s all hokum, snake oil…lies.

The OP wanted to know what would convince us to support drilling for oil in “Alaska and Canada” (Leave aside for the moment that those are not the same nation…???..what do they teach them in the schools these days?) and I say “why is it even a question?”. Oil is a useful resource. It can be pumped out of the ground through a small hole. No downside. All of the paranoia about “drilling in ANWAR” is just hippie nonsense.

One of these days, the average American is going to realize that appeasing these hippie wierdos has cost them a significant chunk of their standard of living. For the moment, they continue to swallow all this nonsense, hook, line and sinker. They think they are going to drive hydrogen cars and save the planet…because they don’t know how any of this works.

 

[Calliso]

Calliso wrote:

*I was simply pointing out that fact that most people that drive those huge SUVS and trucks and what not on a daily basic likely donlt NEED to. But like I also pointed about there are exceptions like people who NEED them for their jobs and people who have large families and who have no choice but to drive a large car! *

And I pointed out that people can drive what they want to. Still waiting on any kind of response to that one.

As for oil yes it is a good source of fuel but it is also very enviromentally damaging to acquire not to mention in many ways when it is in use.

Funny, we have plenty of oil drilling activity here in my area…it doesn’t cause us or our overpopulatied wild animals any particular bother. Every seem a pumpjack running? It just hums along…pumping. Oooo…dangerous. As far as the environmental effects of buring hydrocarbons…what are they? Anyone that thinks global warming is “proven” is just ignorant of the situation and needs to study up.

• Also oil is finite there isn;t an infinite amount of oil on the planet.*

And I say…so? That’s not any reason not to look for what exists. it’s a darn convenient chemical, as I noted.

• Also just because we haven;t found or perfected alternative fuels yet does not mean we should just throw in the towel and say lets just use oil…cause then what happens when the oil runs out or really gets scarce?*

Um…the price goes up. This causes people to seek alternatives, as a natural consequence of human behavior. Leave people alone, they’ll figure this out for themselves. The entire system of cars, trucks, gasoline, gas stations…all of it developed naturally. People are rational in their economic choices, they value things accurately based on how hard or easy they are to obtain.

• And finding alternative fuels is possible my husband just went to a car show with humvee powered by hydrogen the problem now is just making the system small enough to work in conventional cars.*

Any idea where hydrogran comes from? From electrolyzing water. This requires electricity. The electricity comes from…drumroll…oil! And coal. And natural gas. Car companies are showing all of these “alternative fuel cars” at shows, and they have no economic reason to inform consumers that all of these “alternative fuels” use more gasoline to create than the gasoline they replace. It’s a scam, all of it.

What bugs me, personally, is that the american populace beleives all these scams. My TV is full of ads about “going green”…my magazines runneth over with alternative fuels ads…and it’s all hokum, snake oil…lies.

The OP wanted to know what would convince us to support drilling for oil in “Alaska and Canada” (Leave aside for the moment that those are not the same nation…???..what do they teach them in the schools these days?) and I say “why is it even a question?”. Oil is a useful resource. It can be pumped out of the ground through a small hole. No downside. All of the paranoia about “drilling in ANWAR” is just hippie nonsense.

One of these days, the average American is going to realize that appeasing these hippie wierdos has cost them a significant chunk of their standard of living. For the moment, they continue to swallow all this nonsense, hook, line and sinker. They think they are going to drive hydrogen cars and save the planet…because they don’t know how any of this works.

I am not proposing that a law should be made or anything to stop people from driving a certain kind of car. I agree people can drive whatever they want. I am just pointing out that not everyone needs to drive some huge gas guzzling SUV. And I have little pity for those that do then whine about gas prices. You chose the vehicle you get to live with the consequences of it. As for oil I will have to answer more of those question later when I have more time. But yes oil does have adverse affects on the enviroment. Read this piece…chge.med.harvard.edu/publications/documents/oilfullreport.pdf. Also there are different sources of oil…not all are the kind you can just drill a hole into the ground and get.
And yes I realize that the problem with many alternative fuels now is that they still rely on oil in some way shape or fashion. But does that mean we should just throw in the towel and say well oil is all we got? We HAVE to do something. And you know I am not saying we need to find something that lets us get rid of our oil dependency over night! We may always find that we need oil in some way or another. But which do you think is better basically having our society completely dependent on it to the point where if we ran out or stocks really got low the effects would be an utter disater. Or not being that dependent on it?

 

[Al_Masetti]

One thing we can do is to stop using words that are inaccurate representations.

For example, some folks have said that we are addicted to oil.

Well, we breathe air … we need air, but we certainly can’t say that we are “addicted” to air. That would be an inaccurate representation.

So also, to say we are “dependent” on oil, would be an inaccurate representation.

All organisms need air (except for an apparent few that live at the bottom of the ocean and survive by breathing hydrogen sulfide from volcanic vents).

So, we need air.

We (and EVERY organism) need energy. Without energy, we can’t move a muscle … can’t move anything. Literally.

It doesn’t matter whether we eat veggies or berries or fish or beef. It doesn’t matter whether we use horses for locomotion or whether we walk. it doesn’t matter whether we ride around in steam train fueled by coal or wood or whether we ride around in electric trains or in Hummers. We need energy.

It’s not “oil”; it’s energy that we need. We are not dependent or addicted. We need it, same as we need air.

God provided us with oil. It is possible to extract it without poisoning ourselves. During Hurricane Katrina there was minimal spillage. So it is possible to safely extract oil.

There are ways of safely extracting oil and gas from shale. Same as we extract gold or diamonds or coal or copper or zinc or any other mineral from the earth.

If we sat there and didn’t use them, we would be denying ourselves the natural resources provided to us by God.

And we can research extracting uranium and thorium and countless other natural resources.

Extracting natural resources is not a sin. Extracting natural resources is a good thing.

The Planet Earth is NOT a big blue marble. The Planet Earth is a hot rock … 4000 degrees of molten rock … red hot and with a 7000 mile diameter liquid rock center and a thin 30 mile thick crust … exquisitely designed by God and filled with minerals that we can extract and use.

AND if we don’t extract and use them, they will go to waste … yes, waste. Because the surface of the Planet Earth is constantly moving and anything we don’t extract gets recycled back into the crust as the continents drift and layers move under and over one another.

And … did you know we have THOUSANDS of volcanoes? … just spewing millions of tons of minerals into the air and into the oceans … did you know that. Did you know there huge natural seeps of natural gas (mostly methane) and oil … just spewing forth and being wasted. Did you know that?

So we should get in there and recover all that oil and gas and mineral wealth before it all goes to waste.