Highest form of prayer....sex?

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DAWNCUROLE said:
that’s funny i thought that my husband and I were saying “Yes, Lord, we are open to new life, if it be Your will!”

Perhaps you were saying that.

That would mean IMHO that we are giving our our heart,mind, body, and souls to God.
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That may be true – but the marital act itself does not quite constitute prayer,it more accurately constitutes the loving obligation of a vow.
 
az_4_faith said:
Explain it to me.
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Prayer is an address to God in word or thought. It involves things like adoration,confession,repentance,supplication, petition,praise, thanksgiving directed toward heaven. The marital act does not fit the definition of prayer.
 
anthony022071 said:
Prayer is an address to God in word or thought. It involves things like adoration,confession,repentance,supplication, petition,praise, thanksgiving directed toward heaven. The marital act does not fit the definition of prayer.
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Yes, Anthony, those are very good examples of prayer. But they’re not the only examples of prayer.

We can put the definition of prayer in a box and define it as only in those terms. But prayer isn’t only limited to our thoughts and words, it can also be defined by actions.

The corporal works of mercy come to mind when defining moments of prayer without words - giving water to the thirsty, clothing the naked, burying the dead, etc. are all actions performed without words and in those actions we glorify God. You’re right, they’re not spoken, but tending to the sick with a loving touch, a gentle smile - is prayer without words. We don’t need to actually form sentences to offer prayers and supplications to God. He sees our actions and is pleased.

The body speaks a language of its own and can be used to glorify God or to do evil. When a married couple engages in the marital embrace and are completely self-giving and free of impediments (open to life) it is a song of praise to God, thanking Him for their gift of sexuality and a means of expressing their love for one another and for Him. This love reflects the love of the Trinity, it is life-giving and self-giving. It may not be a prayer of words, but it is a pleasing prayer of actions to the Trinity and a renewal of the words of the wedding vows.
 
az_4_faith said:
Yes, Anthony, those are very good examples of prayer. But they’re not the only examples of prayer.

We can put the definition of prayer in a box and define it as only in those terms. But prayer isn’t only limited to our thoughts and words, it can also be defined by actions.

The corporal works of mercy come to mind when defining moments of prayer without words - giving water to the thirsty, clothing the naked, burying the dead, etc. are all actions performed without words and in those actions we glorify God. You’re right, they’re not spoken, but tending to the sick with a loving touch, a gentle smile - is prayer without words. We don’t need to actually form sentences to offer prayers and supplications to God. He sees our actions and is pleased.

I agree with that. But marital sexuality is not really corporal work of mercy – more like corporal play of celebration of self,because as Paul said,a man who loves his wife loves himself.

The body speaks a language of its own and can be used to glorify God or to do evil. When a married couple engages in the marital embrace and are completely self-giving and free of impediments (open to life) it is a song of praise to God, thanking Him for their gift of sexuality and a means of expressing their love for one another and for Him. This love reflects the love of the Trinity, it is life-giving and self-giving. It may not be a prayer of words, but it is a pleasing prayer of actions to the Trinity and a renewal of the words of the wedding vows.
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I can’t really consider it a song of praise to God,because it is not really being directed upward to heaven,toward the Creator,but rather toward the creature,or the created. Giving thanks to God in prayer is one thing,being engaged in sexuality is another.
I can’t buy into the notion of sex as prayer just like I don’t think that a man can serve God and Mammon at the same time. There are “health and wealth” Christians who too neatly reconcile,or justify prosperity with faith,and faith with prosperity,as if God did not prefer the poor. Similarly,those who would say that sex is a form of prayer speak as if the Immaculate Conception,the Virgin Birth of Jesus,and the renunciation of marriage by many saints in favor of a life of prayer,amount to nothing.
 
ddeluna said:
Most regrettably, this “highest” form of prayer ain’t been going on a whole bunch at my house either. :crying: Too much of :yawn: and :sleep: and not enuf of :love: Anyway, not enuf for me. :banghead:
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Try being single:D
 
anthony022071 said:
I can’t really consider it a song of praise to God,because it is not really being directed upward to heaven,toward the Creator,but rather toward the creature,or the created.

Properly understood, each time a married couple engages in the marital embrace, it should be directed towards heaven. That is the very essence of what John Paul II was teaching. God expects nothing less of a married couple. Done in the proper contxt, the creature is engaging in a gift given by the Creator and affirming its goodness.

Unfortunately, society and sinfulness have desecrated this holy notion. It’s been allowed to become reduced to a carnal act rather than a holy act and in those cases, it is not pleasing to God and therefore can’t even approach the action of prayer.

Giving thanks to God in prayer is one thing,being engaged in sexuality is another.

Sexuality is a reflection of God. Don’t get me wrong, God is not sexual, but He created us as sexual beings within His parameters

I can’t buy into the notion of sex as prayer just like I don’t think that a man can serve God and Mammon at the same time.

BINGO! When a married couple engages in self-giving love-making, they are offering themselves to the other completely, not being self-serving. This is the ultimate “Do Unto Others”.

There are “health and wealth” Christians who too neatly reconcile,or justify prosperity with faith,and faith with prosperity,as if God did not prefer the poor. Similarly,those who would say that sex is prayer make it seem as if the Immaculate Conception,the Virgin Birth of Jesus,and the renunciation of marriage by many saints in favor of a life of prayer,amount to nothing.

Keep in mind that marriage is an earthly state that leads to a heavenly reality. Our Lady and some of the Saints were not in need of that earthly direction.
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John Paul II has tried to “peel back” 2000 years of garbage that has been heaped upon human sexuality because of our disobedience and sinfulness.

God never intended for sex to be dirty or debased. And He doesn’t intend for it to be that way now. IT IS GOOD and DIGNIFIED within His parameters.
 
Have you all noticed a simple fact? If you have a picture of a beautiful female dog and bring it to a dog, he will not be interested at all. Dogs are not playboys. Not that they don’t love female dogs, they love them tremendously, but they will not be interested in the picture, in pornography. To create pornography you need saints and religion. First repress the sexual instinct, the natural instinct, and tell people that it is wrong and evil. When they repress their sexual instinct, the repressed instinct finds an outlet.

Now it is difficult to go and enjoy watching beautiful women passing down the road. SO what to do? Lock yourself in your room and look at Playboy magazine. That is safer; nobody comes to know about it. You can hide your Playboy magazine inside the Bible and pretend you are reading the Bible.

Only man is pornogrpahic. No other animal is pornographic. These are simple facts.

And who has made man pornographic? Primitives are not interested in pornography-still are not. Women are naked and move about naked without any fear. So what type of civilazation do you say you are living in? A woman cannot walk down the street without being pinched on the bottom, without being treated inhumanely. A woman cannot walk in the night alone-and this is civilazation? People are just obssessed with sex 24/7.

Who has given this obsession to man? Animals are sexual but not obsessed; they are natural. When sex becomes an obsession it takes perverted forms, and these perverted forms are rooted in the moralizers and their teachings.

The so-called religious people have never trusted human nature. They talk about trust, but they have never trusted life. They trust rules, laws; they never trust love. They talk about God, but that is just empty talk. They trust in the police, in the courts. They trust in hellfire. They trust in creating fear and in creating greed. If you are saintly and good and moral, you will have heaven and all the pleasures of paradise. Or, if you are not moral, then you will suffer hellfire- eternally, remember, forever and ever. These things are rooted in greed and fear. These people have been manipulating the human mind through fear and greed.

I trust you and I trust your nature. I trust animal nature. If nature is allowed its own course, yes, there will be a little anger sometimes and there will be a little flaring up, too, but nothing is wrong in it. It is human and beautiful. But there will be no war.

You have lived with rules and norms, and what has happened? Look at the state of humanity today. It is a neurotic earth, a great madhouse. This is what happened out of your norms, your idealism, perfectionism, morality. Out of all your commandments this has happened- the whole earth has turned into a neurotic campground, a big madhouse. And still you are afraid of hellfire, and still you go on. This a a vicious circle.

I’ll stop here for now…
 
Ah, Blacktiger, my Reiki loving friend . . .

Nothing like waiting for you to hijack a thread with your eastern philosophic angles . . .

Can we stay on topic here and veer away from your mumbo jumbo?
 
THis thread is about sex. My post was about sex. How is it not on topic?

What do you disagree with in my post? What are your reasons for disagreeing?

Or are you dumbfounded and are just going to leave it as ‘mumbo jumbo’? 😉
 
blacktiger057 said:
THis thread is about sex. My post was about sex. How is it not on topic?

What do you disagree with in my post? What are your reasons for disagreeing?

Or are you dumbfounded and are just going to leave it as ‘mumbo jumbo’? 😉
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No this thread isn’t just about sex. Re-read the title.

I’ve already walked in circles with you in other threads. You like to post “blasts” and take threads off topic. You are not forthcoming in your posts.

Please don’t take this thread off to a downward spiral.
 
az_4_faith said:
No this thread isn’t just about sex. Re-read the title.

I’ve already walked in circles with you in other threads. You like to post “blasts” and take threads off topic. You are not forthcoming in your posts.

Please don’t take this thread off to a downward spiral.
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I’ll create another thread then where we can discuss this to make ya happy, okay? You can disprove everything I just said and state and back up your reasons.
 
Please. I don’t have the time nor the patience to get pulled into a topic that this thread has nothing to do with.

Your instigations and antaganisms get old.

Please be respectful of those who are taking this topic seriously.

If you want to talk about humanistic or other anti-catholic approaches to sexual relations, it’s a good idea to start another thread.
 
Anthony,

Sorry about the little diversion.:eek:

I’ve been enjoying our conversation.👍
 
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