HIGHLY Hypothetical: Baptism

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Mar3thia

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I often wonder about weird things.
But, this is by far, an odd thought, for me.

Humans, as well as all other life on Earth, uses water as its solvent.
It is our life giving liquid; it flows across our world.
We are baptised in it.
Water works so well as a solvent for life because it is a very polar molecule,
and many things can be dissolved into it.
But, Ammonia (NH3), among several other chemicals could work as well.

Assuming, Ammonia works as well, let’s suppose somewhere in the universe,
there is life that drinks ammonia instead of water. Ammonia is much more basic than water,
however. So, If we were to come into contact with such a creature (supposing we could),
and that creature was sentient and could contemplate itself and the world, and such a creature wished to be baptised, we couldn’t baptise it in water because water has 10 million more hydrogen ions in it relatively to ammonia because ammonia is so basic, and baptising ammonia life in water would be like dunking them in stomach acid. Boiling stomach acid.

The question is:

Would it be ok to baptise such a creature in its native solvent, Ammonia?

Thanks!
 
The answer is: no.

Only human beings can be baptised. Christ assumed human nature at the Incarnation.

The question of “what species can be baptised?” is not a matter of whether or not the species is sentient. Christ assumed only human nature, therefore only creatures that have human nature can ever be baptised.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Christ assumed only human nature, therefore only creatures that have human nature can ever be baptised.
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What if humans eventually evolve to the point where the human form has very little in common with the human form Jesus assumed when he came here? Heck — what if WE slowly became the ammonia-based lifeforms. Then what would we do?
 
FrDavid96 said:
The answer is: no.

Only human beings can be baptised. Christ assumed human nature at the Incarnation.

The question of “what species can be baptised?” is not a matter of whether or not the species is sentient. Christ assumed only human nature, therefore only creatures that have human nature can ever be baptised.
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Understood Father, but the Church also defines the human person as a body in union with a rational soul. (Corpra et Anima Unis)

Specifically, in Fr Hardon’s 'Modern Catholic Dictionary" - “It is the human, as such, having a body and soul capable of rational though and voluntary decision”

Or Augustine - “a rational soul using a mortal and earthly body” (De Moribus, I, xxvii). "

Would not a rational, physical, mortal alien meet that definition?
 
FrDavid96 said:
The answer is: no.

Only human beings can be baptised. Christ assumed human nature at the Incarnation.

The question of “what species can be baptised?” is not a matter of whether or not the species is sentient. Christ assumed only human nature, therefore only creatures that have human nature can ever be baptised.
Click to expand...
👍

Angels/demons case in point. Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection are only applicable to humans… which is always awe-inspiring to meditate on.
 
Brendan said:
Understood Father, but the Church also defines the human person as a body in union with a rational soul. (Corpra et Anima Unis)

Specifically, in Fr Hardon’s 'Modern Catholic Dictionary" - “It is the human, as such, having a body and soul capable of rational though and voluntary decision”

Or Augustine - “a rational soul using a mortal and earthly body” (De Moribus, I, xxvii). "

Would not a rational, physical, mortal alien meet that definition?
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No.

Because while all of those definitions are correct in–and-of themselves, neither of them is intended to be a definition of human that specifically takes into account a distinction between a human being and a hypothetical rational non-human creature.
 
I would answer this as an “I don’t know”. How often do we hear about how mysterious God’s ways are and how often do we hear that we aren’t privy to His plans?

For all we know, God seeded sentient and soul bearing life on other planets just as He did here. For all we know, the Catholic Church is truly universal in the sense that God revealed His teachings to life on many planets and there are alien races celebrating Mass all over the universe.
 
MJJean said:
I would answer this as an “I don’t know”. How often do we hear about how mysterious God’s ways are and how often do we hear that we aren’t privy to His plans?

For all we know, God seeded sentient and soul bearing life on other planets just as He did here. For all we know, the Catholic Church is truly universal in the sense that God revealed His teachings to life on many planets and there are alien races celebrating Mass all over the universe.
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It’s a fair statement.

At the same time, we have to deal with the reality that we do have, and what we know.

The Incarnation applies only to humanity (in the ordinary sense of the word). We sinned, we needed to be redeemed. The Son assumed human nature to save us. The Sacrament of Baptism is part of that Salvation History. However, it applies only to human beings. Nothing can ever change that.

Having said that though, it is not impossible that there should be other sentient beings somewhere out there in the great infinity. Does not-being-human mean they cannot be saved? No. It simply means that their situation is not our situation, and therefore our baptism cannot be their baptism.

Perhaps they do not need to be saved. Perhaps they don’t sin (we are, after all, just speculating here). If they do sin, then perhaps God offers them redemption just as much as He offers it to us, but He does so in a way that is relevant for them. If they do need salvation, surely God is wise enough to provide them with a means to that salvation.

Check this article
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802629.htm
 
This is a sci-fi question, not a logical one or religious one. No offense to anyone, but you all answered it as if it really happened. I’m going to answer it within the fictional parameters it was asked.

If such a being appeared on Earth and he heard the gospel and wanted to be baptized, but water would be like acid to his flesh, then we should baptize him in whatever substance is water to him. I say this because it is a sci-fi question.

Our astronomers keep changing what they think is out in the cosmos. Right now they think there are probably many planets that can support life. Let’s assume each galaxy has only 1 planet with intelligent life, and our God put them there, just like He put us here. None of us will ever meet. God put us so far apart we can never reach each other. I think that’s possible. Or I think God will use those planets for all the people who receive the gift of eternal life. We just don’t know.

But what we do know are the rules God gave us if we want to gain eternal life. We will never be perfect, but each day we have to strive towards that goal. St.Paul called it a crown that we’ll get when and if we finish this race. So that’s what we should do. Strive for it everyday.
 
Geo17 said:
This is a sci-fi question, not a logical one or religious one. No offense to anyone, but you all answered it as if it really happened. I’m going to answer it within the fictional parameters it was asked.

If such a being appeared on Earth and he heard the gospel and wanted to be baptized, but water would be like acid to his flesh, then we should baptize him in whatever substance is water to him. I say this because it is a sci-fi question.
…
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Except that answer is incorrect.

Water is the only substance that can sacramentally cleanse a man of sin. Jesus did not bathe in ammonia when he met his cousin John; he bathed in the waters of the Jordan River, and thus empowered water as a sign of the new an everlasting covenant. We could not presume to use ammonia to baptize* anything but perhaps the glass windows of the alien’s ship!

However, hope should not be lost in such a scenario; presumably the alien would be eligible to be baptized by desire (i.e. to come to know Christ and anxiously wish to join his church, but die before reception) or baptism by fire (martyrdom). (Within the narrow confines of this hypothetical, attempting to baptize by water, may have the unintended effect hastening baptism by desire or fire )

*To “baptize” literally means to “cleans”
 
Geo17 said:
This is a sci-fi question, not a logical one or religious one. No offense to anyone, but you all answered it as if it really happened. I’m going to answer it within the fictional parameters it was asked.

If such a being appeared on Earth and he heard the gospel and wanted to be baptized, but water would be like acid to his flesh, then we should baptize him in whatever substance is water to him. I say this because it is a sci-fi question.

Our astronomers keep changing what they think is out in the cosmos. Right now they think there are probably many planets that can support life. Let’s assume each galaxy has only 1 planet with intelligent life, and our God put them there, just like He put us here. None of us will ever meet. God put us so far apart we can never reach each other. I think that’s possible. Or I think God will use those planets for all the people who receive the gift of eternal life. We just don’t know.

But what we do know are the rules God gave us if we want to gain eternal life. We will never be perfect, but each day we have to strive towards that goal. St.Paul called it a crown that we’ll get when and if we finish this race. So that’s what we should do. Strive for it everyday.
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Actually, it is a religious question.

It comes down to fundamental Christology. Christ assumed human nature, therefore only human beings are saved by Christ. No non-human can ever be baptised.
That’s Christology.

If there is life out there and that life needs salvation, then God will figure out a way to save them. But it won’t be our way, it will be their way.
That’s hypothetical but it’s not necessarily fictional.

Fiction can be whatever the author wants it to be. That’s not what the question was about.
 
runningdude said:
Except that answer is incorrect.

Water is the only substance that can sacramentally cleanse a man of sin. Jesus did not bathe in ammonia when he met his cousin John; he bathed in the waters of the Jordan River, and thus empowered water as a sign of the new an everlasting covenant. We could not presume to use ammonia to baptize* anything but perhaps the glass windows of the alien’s ship!

However, hope should not be lost in such a scenario; presumably the alien would be eligible to be baptized by desire (i.e. to come to know Christ and anxiously wish to join his church, but die before reception) or baptism by fire (martyrdom). (Within the narrow confines of this hypothetical, attempting to baptize by water, may have the unintended effect hastening baptism by desire or fire )

*To “baptize” literally means to “cleans”
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You’re still missing the whole point.

The Incarnation of Christ means that humanity is offered salvation. Only human beings can be saved by the salvific act of the Incarnate Word, because Christ became only a human being.

Such a being could not be “baptised by desire” because such a being is not part of the human race. Only humans can be baptised–nothing can ever change this.

Keep in mind that the very reason why we need salvation is because of Adam’s sin (not to be taken as biology, but in the spiritual sense). Only those belonging to the race of Adam need the salvation that the New Adam came to offer; and only they (us) are eligible.
 
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