Hindu Polytheism

[jimkhong]

I note that you say “the Catholic being called God,” which is a terribly inaccurate description of the orthodox understanding of God in the first place. In Catholic teaching, God isn’t a being, and certainly not “a Catholic being.”

Thanks Edwin for pointing out that I have used a shorthand of ‘Catholic’ for ‘Catholic understanding of …’. I would imagine most reader would understand this but this clarification is for those few who would not.

Also, for those not familiar with Thomistic understanding of ‘being’ and for whom the word ‘being’ have other connotations in contemporary use, please feel free to substitute it with ‘spirit’, ‘person’, ‘essence’, ‘reality’ although none of these is theologically accurate but sufficient for most usage.

Anyway, we are digressing as this thread is Hindu polytheism/monotheism. On your other points relevant to the OP, I would like to re-emphasise the need to avoid making a direct mapping between Western and Indian concepts. Both Christianity and Hinduism were born of very different philosophical cradles, which have very different approaches and basis (not just different opinions and conclusions). You may be able to identify some similarities in certain areas in certain concepts but it is almost impossible to say that a particular concept in Christian theology has an exact equivalent in a particular concept in Hinduism.

If you were to ask an Indian in US if he (or she) is monotheist, he would reply in the affirmative as the conversation takes place in a Western context (asked by a Westerner with a Western understanding and usually of a middle-class background) - and he would be right as he would invoke God like we do. Then, he goes home and pray to his dewa in his altar at home, to what a Christian would consider a polytheistic idol. And he doesn’t see if confusing or contradictory.

Let’s not define Hinduism in Christian terms just as we do not expect Hindus to understand Christianity as an extension of Hinduism (actually, they do but that is another thread).

 

[Contarini]

Thanks Edwin for pointing out that I have used a shorthand of ‘Catholic’ for ‘Catholic understanding of …’. I would imagine most reader would understand this but this clarification is for those few who would not.

Also, for those not familiar with Thomistic understanding of ‘being’ and for whom the word ‘being’ have other connotations in contemporary use, please feel free to substitute it with ‘spirit’, ‘person’, ‘essence’, ‘reality’ although none of these is theologically accurate but sufficient for most usage.

Anyway, we are digressing as this thread is Hindu polytheism/monotheism. On your other points relevant to the OP, I would like to re-emphasise the need to avoid making a direct mapping between Western and Indian concepts. Both Christianity and Hinduism were born of very different philosophical cradles, which have very different approaches and basis (not just different opinions and conclusions). You may be able to identify some similarities in certain areas in certain concepts but it is almost impossible to say that a particular concept in Christian theology has an exact equivalent in a particular concept in Hinduism.

If you were to ask an Indian in US if he (or she) is monotheist, he would reply in the affirmative as the conversation takes place in a Western context (asked by a Westerner with a Western understanding and usually of a middle-class background) - and he would be right as he would invoke God like we do. Then, he goes home and pray to his dewa in his altar at home, to what a Christian would consider a polytheistic idol. And he doesn’t see if confusing or contradictory.

Let’s not define Hinduism in Christian terms just as we do not expect Hindus to understand Christianity as an extension of Hinduism (actually, they do but that is another thread).

I agree that we need to be cautious. But saying “they aren’t the same at all” is also incautious. I do not believe that reality is ultimately pluralistic. There is one Reality. That doesn’t mean that we are all just talking about the same thing by “different names,” or rather it does, but different names matter and some of them may be seriously mistaken (all of them are, of course inadequate to the reality).

Edwin

 

[nmgauss]

If you were to ask an Indian in US if he (or she) is monotheist, he would reply in the affirmative as the conversation takes place in a Western context (asked by a Westerner with a Western understanding and usually of a middle-class background) - and he would be right as he would invoke God like we do. Then, he goes home and pray to his dewa in his altar at home, to what a Christian would consider a polytheistic idol. And he doesn’t see if confusing or contradictory.

Let’s not paint all Indians as Hindus. Many are Muslims, Jains, and Sikhs.

 

[openmind77]

…If you were to ask an Indian in US if he (or she) is monotheist, he would reply in the affirmative as the conversation takes place in a Western context (asked by a Westerner with a Western understanding and usually of a middle-class background) - and he would be right as he would invoke God like we do.

Most western educated Indians are a bit embarrassed (if not ashamed of) their polytheism and will often say they believe in One God without naming him. Even Mr Philomath up there claims to be a monotheist, but he had another God (Laxmi) in his signature a few days back. So either he believes in two Gods or he thinks Krishna and Laxmi are identical or he thinks Laxmi is some kind angel (and Krishna is the only real God). BTW, I should warn him, don’t call Ganesh just an angel - if he gets mad at you, no one can save you except maybe Shiva

Then, he goes home and pray to his dewa in his altar at home, to what a Christian would consider a polytheistic idol. And he doesn’t see if confusing or contradictory.

Actually it will not be just one idol. At home we usually keep several together - my altar has at least five idols (of different Gods)

Let’s not define Hinduism in Christian terms just as we do not expect Hindus to understand Christianity as an extension of Hinduism (actually, they do but that is another thread).

Actually I believe the differences between various religions will soon be reconciled when the Christ returns. I expect this event to take place pretty soon (maybe couple of years). We will then know clearly how many Gods there are (and if there are any Goddesses). Of course Hindus still believe that all Gods add up to one being - Brahman.

 

[Philomath]

Most western educated Indians are a bit embarrassed (if not ashamed of) their polytheism and will often say they believe in One God without naming him. Even Mr Philomath up there claims to be a monotheist, but he had another God (Laxmi) in his signature a few days back.] So either he believes in two Gods or he thinks Krishna and Laxmi are identical or he thinks Laxmi is some kind angel (and Krishna is the only real God). BTW, I should warn him, don’t call Ganesh just an angel - if he gets mad at you, no one can save you except maybe Shiva

I don’t recall ever stating what kind of Theist I am, so where are you getting this from?

 

[openmind77]

I don’t recall ever stating what kind of Theist I am, so where are you getting this from?

Sorry, I understood that from another thread. I was mistaken - my apologies.

Seems that you are a polytheist just like me.

 

[Philomath]

Sorry, I understood that from another thread. I was mistaken - my apologies.

Seems that you are a polytheist just like me.

I’m not a polytheist lol

 

[openmind77]

I’m not a polytheist lol

OK then, you are a monotheist who believes in Laxmi and Krishna - and remember the warning about Ganesh.

 

[jimkhong]

Let’s not paint all Indians as Hindus. Many are Muslims, Jains, and Sikhs.

You are right of course. And Christians and Buddists as well. Especially if we refer to Indians as people from the Indian subcontinent. Again, in my laziness, I used a shorthand for Hindus of Indian origin, as opposed to Western converts to Hinduism. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[jimkhong]

Most western educated Indians are a bit embarrassed (if not ashamed of) their polytheism and will often say they believe in One God without naming him.

I have virtually no experience of Hindus in US but I can see what you mean: same problem with second-generation ABCs - how much of a Chinese culture do they retain if they are Americans.

The Hindus I deal with everyday (about 6% of our population, more in my part of the country) will make comments like (when talking about someone’s wrongdoing) “God knows what everyone does” or (when concluding about being unsure about what can be done) “Then, we leave it in God’s hands”. They use it in the same sense as Christians or Muslims would. And they have no reason in my country to be embarassed about their Hinduism as our melting pot concept differs from the American one. (Each race/religion is expected to retain its different identities in full and not be mixed into a national identity to which they all contribute. The downside is that we are still having difficulties giving birth to a true Malaysian culture while it is very clear what an American culture is.)

 

[Philomath]

OK then, you are a monotheist who believes in Laxmi and Krishna - and remember the warning about Ganesh.

You keep making judgements based on things you’ve inferred rather than anything I’ve actually said.

 

[openmind77]

You keep making judgements based on things you’ve inferred rather than anything I’ve actually said.

Ok I take back what I said - you are neither a polytheist nor a monotheist.

But you do put pictures of Laxmi as well as Krishna in your signature, but it is unknown whether you believe in either of them.

 

[eddie_too]

two things i learned from a friend who was born, raised and remains a hindu.

first, there is no central authority in hinduism. as a consequence, there are many, many different understandings of what hinduism is and what hinduism teachtes.

second, when hindus speak of the many gods, they are actually referring to men who had lived in earlier eras of india. according to my friend, hinduism teaches that there is only one, true god. all of the rest were human beings who manifested characteristics that led the people who lived after them to call them gods.

 

[nmgauss]

two things i learned from a friend who was born, raised and remains a hindu.

second, when hindus speak of the many gods, they are actually referring to men who had lived in earlier eras of india. according to my friend, hinduism teaches that there is only one, true god. all of the rest were human beings who manifested characteristics that led the people who lived after them to call them gods.

The one true god, I presume, is BRAHma. However, there is a wide difference between this god and “God the Father” of Christians. This is forgotten when discussions occur of the nature of God.

 

[Ridgerunner]

One of the most common misconceptions about hinduism is that they are united in dogma and doctrines, which they certainly aren’t.

Some schools and practices are polythiestic, but others could be described as Monotheistic (Hare Krishna’s) or even Athiestic (Cārvāka).

Edit: Also…Minor niggle; Western pagans were familiar with and did have concepts of monotheism prior to Christ. Just look at Mithraism that spread from Persia and took hold in Rome, Aten in Egypt and perhaps to a lesser extend Sol Invictus (Also Roman).

Greek and Roman philosophers were also certainly aware of the idea at least by the time of Socrates.

I agree. I think it depends on the individual Hindu or western pagan one is talking about. I once took an intensive course on the Iliad, and if you pay very close attention, it’s obvious that some of the listeners (it was oral first) really were polytheistic and some were monotheistic, because sometimes in the Iliad Zeus really is the supreme being in an almost Judeo-Christian sense, and sometimes he is just the strongest (but not always smartest) of a number of gods. It’s evident too that some Greeks were true pagans in the sense that they believed they could manipulate the gods. To some, though, that was impossible and even unthinkable.

Likely the more sophisticated Greeks were inclined to monotheism while the less sophisticated were truly polytheists.

I have been told by Hindus that they only really believe in one god, but that all the other gods are just manifestations of some aspect of god, not to be taken literally. Undoubtedly there are others who really do believe in a number of gods.

I remember one Hindu in particular who wore a Miraculous Medal. I thought he was Catholic because of that. No, he explained to me, Mary, to them, is just one more manifestation of “the mother”; the Hindu expression of a kind of maternal principle/goddess.

I sometimes think there are as many Hinduisms as there are Hindus.

 

[openmind77]

two things i learned from a friend who was born, raised and remains a hindu.

first, there is no central authority in hinduism. as a consequence, there are many, many different understandings of what hinduism is and what hinduism teachtes.

This is true

second, when hindus speak of the many gods, they are actually referring to men who had lived in earlier eras of india. according to my friend, hinduism teaches that there is only one, true god. all of the rest were human beings who manifested characteristics that led the people who lived after them to call them gods.

This is not exactly true. Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma, Ganesh or the three Goddesses never lived as human beings - they were always immortal Gods (that is seven right there).

Avatars like Rama, Krishna were indeed human beings who are now considered as Gods. (rather like Jesus).

 

[openmind77]

The one true god, I presume, is BRAHma. However, there is a wide difference between this god and “God the Father” of Christians. This is forgotten when discussions occur of the nature of God.

Unfortunately this is totally incorrect - Brahma is not worshipped at all. There is only one temple in the whole world dedicated to Brahma.

Maybe you mean Brahman - but that is an impersonal being - which can not be equated to the ‘Father’

 

[nmgauss]

Unfortunately this is totally incorrect - Brahma is not worshipped at all. There is only one temple in the whole world dedicated to Brahma.

Maybe you mean Brahman - but that is an impersonal being - which can not be equated to the ‘Father’

Brahma (ब्रह्म) (nominative singular), brahman (stem) (neuter[7] gender) means the concept of the transcendent and immanent ultimate reality of the One Godhead or Supreme Cosmic Spirit in Hinduism; the concept is central to Hindu philosophy, especially Vedanta; this is discussed below. Also note that the word Brahman in this sense is exceptionally treated as masculine (see the Merrill-Webster Sanskrit Dictionary). It is called “the Brahman” in English. Brahm is another variant of Brahman.
Brahmā (ब्रह्मा) (nominative singlular), Brahman (ब्रह्मन्) (stem) (masculine gender), means the deity or deva Prajāpati Brahmā. He is one of the members of the Hindu trinity and associated with creation, but does not have a cult in present day India. This is because Brahmā, the creator-god, is long-lived but not eternal i.e. Brahmā gets absorbed back into Purusha at the end of an aeon, and is born again at the beginning of a new kalpa.

 

[Servant19]

Unfortunately this is totally incorrect - Brahma is not worshipped at all. There is only one temple in the whole world dedicated to Brahma.

Maybe you mean Brahman - but that is an impersonal being - which can not be equated to the ‘Father’

“Thou art the fire, Thou art the sun, Thou art the air, Thou art the moon, thou art the starry firmament, thou art Brahman Supreme: Thou art the waters — thou, The creator of all”

• • • Upanishads

Was any of the other Gods the “creator of all”
If so, can you provide a reference please?

However, one mustn’t think that Hinduism is pantheistic:

“There is, properly speaking, whatever appearances may sometimes suggest to the contrary, no pantheism in India. The Hindu sees God as the ultimate energy in and behind all creation, but never, either in ancient or in modern times, as identical with it.”
– Swami Prabhavananda, The Spiritual Heritage of India, p. 33.

.

 

[openmind77]

Brahma (ब्रह्म) (nominative singular), brahman (stem) (neuter[7] gender) means the concept of the transcendent and immanent ultimate reality of the One Godhead or Supreme Cosmic Spirit in Hinduism; the concept is central to Hindu philosophy, especially Vedanta; this is discussed below. Also note that the word Brahman in this sense is exceptionally treated as masculine (see the Merrill-Webster Sanskrit Dictionary). It is called “the Brahman” in English. Brahm is another variant of Brahman.
Brahmā (ब्रह्मा) (nominative singlular), Brahman (ब्रह्मन्) (stem) (masculine gender), means the deity or deva Prajāpati Brahmā. He is one of the members of the Hindu trinity and associated with creation, but does not have a cult in present day India. This is because Brahmā, the creator-god, is long-lived but not eternal i.e. Brahmā gets absorbed back into Purusha at the end of an aeon, and is born again at the beginning of a new kalpa.

This is more or less correct (But Brahma and Brahman are not identical or even related, although they sound like the same thing)

But the fact remains that nobody worships Brahma today - so nobody considers him the one true God.