Hinduism?????

[jam070406]

I want to point out something that it is easy to lose sight of, but which is clearly taught by the Church and which was explained by the late Great Pope John Paul II in his encyclical Veritatis Splendor. To quote,

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html

"

The Church knows that the issue of morality is one which deeply touches every person; it involves all people, even those who do not know Christ and his Gospel or God himself. She knows that it is precisely on the path of the moral life that the way of salvation is open to all. The Second Vatican Council clearly recalled this when it stated that “those who without any fault do not know anything about Christ or his Church, yet who search for God with a sincere heart and under the influence of grace, try to put into effect the will of God as known to them through the dictate of conscience… can obtain eternal salvation”. The Council added: “Nor does divine Providence deny the helps that are necessary for salvation to those who, through no fault of their own, have not yet attained to the express recognition of God, yet who strive, not without divine grace, to lead an upright life. For whatever goodness and truth is found in them is considered by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel and bestowed by him who enlightens everyone that they may in the end have life”.

"

I submit that part of the reason that the Church’s evangelical mission succeeded so poorly in the East is because they already had religions there that were the result of centuries of spiritual practice, and they did not see in the conduct of many of the missionaries, a superior morality. It was different in ancient Rome and Greece where the Gospel was well-received, because the morality of Christianity there was like a breath of fresh air, and had an obvious advantage over the paganism of common practice. But Hinduism, for example, already has a tradition of asceticism. There is already in place a tradition of renouncing the world and sensory pleasures to seek God with one’s whole mind and heart. One of the tenets of the Yoga school is called Brahmacharya, which means sexual abstinence and continence. So there is already a tradition in Hinduism something akin to the evangelical counsels of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Compared to the bacchanalian orgies of ancient Rome, the path of the Yogis in the East was far less dissimilar to the renunciation of the world of the Catholic monks.

So what is the solution? Why, indeed, would anyone (like me) even argue that the path of Catholicism is superior, if indeed the path of the Yogi bears good fruit?

The word, “yoga,” means yoke. Yoga is the goal and the pursuit of the goal of Union with God. To yoke two oxen together means to make them work in unison. Yoga means to be yoked to God.

Jesus said, “My yoke (“yoga!”) is easy, My burden light.”

Matthew 11:28 Come to me all you that labor and are burdened, and I will refresh you. 29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: And you shall find rest to your souls. 30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

Jesus is the Supreme Yogi. He is consubstantial with the Father. His Will and the Father’s Will are already One. And He gave us His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, in the Eucharist, to unite us (yoke us) to Himself, and through Himself, to His Father. So in Catholicism, there is nothing for us to do, because it has already been done for us, in Jesus Christ. The Yoga, is already done. We have only to receive it, to step out of the way with our own wills, and let God do His Will in us. The Fruit of the Tree of Life is given us; we have only to receive it. The entirety of what the Yogis were pursuing, is already done for us and given to us as our Spiritual Food. That is why He called His Yoga, “easy.”

Peace! Let me know your thoughts!

Because Jesus Christ died on the cross for us! It’s the ONLY way you can be saved from sin.

 

[JosephFG]

Because Jesus Christ died on the cross for us! It’s the ONLY way you can be saved from sin.

In your opinion, do all non-Catholics, or all non-Christians, go to hell?

 

[jam070406]

In your opinion, do all non-Catholics, or all non-Christians, go to hell?

I am Catholic. I believe what the Church Teaches.

 

[JosephFG]

I doubt it.
And I believe that is syncrestic Hindu nonsense.
I believe you are being deceived by this way of thinking.
No way. These odd ideas that you propose are more in line with the thinking of Paramahansa Yogananda and Self-realization Fellowship cult.
Barriers can be broken down without adopting some type of Catholic/Hindu fusion theology.
Thank God!
This is based on the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita…it is not Catholic.

Do you think your religion should be a weekend thing or a full-time thing?

In my opinion, God is One, not several. There is only one God, one Truth, one true religion. I am reading things here like, “In Hinduism, their religion permeates every aspect of their lives.” Well, shouldn’t that be what Catholicism does? Shouldn’t we seek to be fully absorbed in God at every moment, with every breath? Or is that too intense for you?

On the one subject of Yoga — what is yoga, in your opinion? Is it a set of exercises and some deep breathing? Or is it — what the word really means — a process of yoking? Did or did not Jesus explicitly proclaim, “My Yoga is easy”?

 

[jam070406]

Do you think your religion should be a weekend thing or a full-time thing?

In my opinion, God is One, not several. There is only one God, one Truth, one true religion. I am reading things here like, “In Hinduism, their religion permeates every aspect of their lives.” Well, shouldn’t that be what Catholicism does? Shouldn’t we seek to be fully absorbed in God at every moment, with every breath? Or is that too intense for you?

On the one subject of Yoga — what is yoga, in your opinion? Is it a set of exercises and some deep breathing? Or is it — what the word really means — a process of yoking? Did or did not Jesus explicitly proclaim, “My Yoga is easy”?

Yes! We need people striving to be Saints!

 

[JosephFG]

I am Catholic. I believe what the Church Teaches.

My question was quite specific, and I’m not asking you to commit to a final answer, I’m only asking you to express your opinion, as an opinion. What does the Church actually teach, in your opinion?

A) All non-Catholics go to hell.
B) All non-Christians go to hell.
C) The way of salvation is open to all, and it is possible (though not certain) for anyone to be saved, in a way known to God. (not that they are saved BY another religion, but that God counts their love as merit.)

 

[agnes_therese]

Im not sure it is possible to seperate yoga from hinduism. Thats where it comes from.

Of course it’s possible. I do hope this isn’t going to turn into another “yoga poses mean you’re not a real Catholic” discussion.

 

[jam070406]

My question was quite specific, and I’m not asking you to commit to a final answer, I’m only asking you to express your opinion, as an opinion. What does the Church actually teach, in your opinion?

A) All non-Catholics go to hell.
B) All non-Christians go to hell.
C) The way of salvation is open to all, and it is possible (though not certain) for anyone to be saved, in a way known to God. (not that they are saved BY another religion, but that God counts their love as merit.)

It’s a HUGE topic. Ultimately, of course God is judge.

He gave us Divine revelation and the Church as the means for salvation. That is what we must profess and we must heed the Lord’s call to go out and baptize all nations.

 

[Mickey]

Do you think your religion should be a weekend thing or a full-time thing?

Full time…and it has nothing to do with yoga or hinduism.

 

[JosephFG]

Yes! We need people striving to be Saints!

Yes! Or saints at least. God chooses His Saints, but we are all called to be saints. What people need to recognize, what is taught very little these days, is that Purgatory is real, and it is no picnic. And it is not God’s Will for anyone to go there, rather it is His Will to perfect us in this life, so that we may go directly to Heaven when we die.

I have come to recognize that the simple reality of God is that He is an infinitely Pure and Holy Fire. When we die, we are immersed in that Fire, and it is the same for everyone, but its effect on us is different according to our state. If we are made perfect in love, which is God’s Will for each of us, then the Fire will not hurt us, but it will set us on fire with love. If we are less than perfect but still love, then all our imperfections will be burned away by it and we will suffer in Purgatory. If we are unfortunate enough to have rejected all love with finality, that still does not change the nature of God. The same Fire that would otherwise purify a different soul will instead burn them forever.

So this blows away all arguments about Hell being unfair. It isn’t that at all, it is quite simply that God is God and cannot change. Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory are all just individual reactions to the Infinite Fire of Love. It is really, really Simple! But human beings in general have no idea how Holy God is. Saint Faustina wrote that His infinite Holiness is the trait that characterizes Him the most. And Scripture says, “Our God is a consuming Fire.”

 

[rain_bow]

You would be hard pressed to find any Catholic or Orthodox bishops to refer to Christ as “the supreme yogi.” That is nothing but syncrestic hindu mumbo jumbo.

Hindu mumbo jumbo.? Don’t you think that Christianity is similar to Hinduism?Hindus believe in one God with different aspects, as Christians also believe that one God in 3 distinct aspect!

Well Hinduism also has trinity, and it is almost same as Christian trinity.

Brahma is the creator, Vishnu is the preserver,and Shiva is destroyer.
But actually the 3 are the same God, in the 3 different forms, same as God the father, son and holy spirit, right?

You may say that Hindu Gods’ have wives and children? I found no problem if they have wives, I think it is better than Christianity or Islam or Judaism, since the Abrahamic God has only male aspects. But Hindu God has female aspects too. Sounds pretty good, and humanist religion that adore both male and female .

And finally if 3 can be one then 3 million or 3 billion can be one too, since God is almighty so he can take lots of manifestation. If he can not, then he is limited deity

 

[JosephFG]

Of course it’s possible. I do hope this isn’t going to turn into another “yoga poses mean you’re not a real Catholic” discussion.

Yayyy! Thank you, agnes therese!

It is just as possible to separate the word and the concept of Yoga from Hinduism, as it was for Saint John to separate the word and the concept of Logos from Greek paganism.

Let me be crystal clear: I am not trying to make converts to Hinduism!!!

Hinduism, along with Buddhism, Islamism, Protestantism, and Atheism, and every other “-ism” EXCEPT Catholicism, is going by the wayside. But God’s Church teaches that,

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

"
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.
"

and,

"
The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.
"

 

[JosephFG]

It’s a HUGE topic. Ultimately, of course God is judge.

He gave us Divine revelation and the Church as the means for salvation. That is what we must profess and we must heed the Lord’s call to go out and baptize all nations.

Agreed.

 

[JosephFG]

Full time…and it has nothing to do with yoga or hinduism.

We are in agreement on your first point. (“Full time.”) As to your second, while it may have nothing to do with Hinduism, treating your walk with God as a full-time proposition IS yoga, the way I understand it. What are you really objecting to? Is it the association of the word, ‘yoga,’ with Hinduism? I am not advocating another religion. I am not promoting Hinduism or polytheism or false mysticism of any kind.

But if ‘yoga’ is a bad word, why does Saint Matthew have it coming from the lips of our Savior? You realize, I hope, that ‘yoga’ and ‘yoke’ are etymologically identical, and that Our Lord most likely spoke Aramaic. Right?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga

"
The Sanskrit word yoga has the literal meaning of “yoke”, or “the act of yoking or harnessing”, from a root yuj.
"

There is no such thing as an etymological distinction between ‘yoga’ and ‘yoke,’ in First Century Judea.

 

[Mickey]

treating your walk with God as a full-time proposition IS yoga,

No way.

Is it the association of the word, ‘yoga,’ with Hinduism? I am not advocating another religion.

You are promoting an odd Hindu catholic fusion…very few Catholics here would agree with your innovative theories.

But if ‘yoga’ is a bad word, why does Saint Matthew have it coming from the lips of our Savior?

Nonsense.

 

[Mickey]

Don’t you think that Christianity is similar to Hinduism?

Not even close.

 

[JosephFG]

Hindu mumbo jumbo.? Don’t you think that Christianity is similar to Hinduism?Hindus believe in one God with different aspects, as Christians also believe that one God in 3 distinct aspect!

Well Hinduism also has trinity, and it is almost same as Christian trinity.

Almost. But not quite.

The proper term for the confluence of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, is Trimurti, not Trinity, and the concepts are subtly different. Specifically, the Trimurti is seen differently in different schools of Hindu thought. Some treat them as three gods, i.e. actual individual beings, who carry out the three processes of Creation, Preservation, and Dissolution. Others treat them as philosophical concepts expressing different aspects of the One God. Still others believe that there is no Personal God, and treat the Trimurti as a philosophical understanding of the One Reality, which they treat as essentially Impersonal. The Vaishnava school believes Vishnu is Supreme, and the Gaudiya Vaishnava (Hare Krishna) believe that Krishna, an incarnation of Vishnu, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

The Trinity, by contrast, is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, Three Persons in One God. The Trinity is NOT a philosophical construct, it is a revealed truth, and a mystery in the truest sense of that word. It is impossible for any creature to grasp the Essence of the Trinity, but it is possible, if God gives the understanding, to understand some of the mystery. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the Power, Wisdom, and Love of God, who IS Love.

Brahma is the creator, Vishnu is the preserver,and Shiva is destroyer.

More accurately, Shiva is the dissolver.

But actually the 3 are the same God, in the 3 different forms, same as God the father, son and holy spirit, right?

Not the same, as noted, but there are similarities. The main difference is that the Holy Trinity is Reality, not myth.

You may say that Hindu Gods’ have wives and children? I found no problem if they have wives, I think it is better than Christianity or Islam or Judaism, since the Abrahamic God has only male aspects.

Not true. For example, God compares Himself to a mother in Isaiah,

Isaias 49:15 Can a woman forget her infant, so as not to have pity on the son of her womb? And if she should forget, yet will not I forget you.

Isaias 66:13 As one whom the mother caresses, so will I comfort you, and you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

And in the Gospel, Jesus says,

Luke 13:34 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that kills the prophets; and stone them that are sent to you, how often would I have gathered your children as the bird does her brood under her wings, and you would not?

But Hindu God has female aspects too. Sounds pretty good, and humanist religion that adore both male and female .

And finally if 3 can be one then 3 million or 3 billion can be one too, since God is almighty so he can take lots of manifestation. If he can not, then he is limited deity

The problem with polytheism is not that more manifestations add to God, but rather that they take away, since each god or goddess in a pantheon is limited in some way, and God is not limited at all. Human beings cannot conceive of infinity, so they multiply entities as a way of approaching the infinity of God. But God is infinite in Himself, something that we cannot comprehend. The gods and goddesses of pantheons are all expressions of human attempts at understanding what is essentially incomprehensible, the actual Infinity of Almighty God. One of the properties possessed by God is Aseity, meaning that He is entirely sufficient in Himself, and has no need of anything. So why would He need partners?

 

[JosephFG]

No way.

No way you are doing yoga?

I think you are quibbling about words.

You are promoting an odd Hindu catholic fusion…very few Catholics here would agree with your innovative theories.

I’ll wait for them to speak up, rather than take your word for it, thanks just the same.

Nonsense.

Matthew 11:28 Come to me all you that labor and are burdened, and I will refresh you. 29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: And you shall find rest to your souls. 30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

Are you under the impression that yoke and yoga are two different words?

What exactly is the significance of Our Savior offering His “yoke” to His disciples? Is He going to literally put a piece of wood on their necks and have them pull a plow?

 

[JosephFG]

I doubt it.
And I believe that is syncrestic Hindu nonsense.
I believe you are being deceived by this way of thinking.

Is syncretism a bad word in your book?

I allow that I may be deceived. What should I do about it, in your opinion?

My Church teaches, quite specifically, about Hinduism and Buddhism,

"
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)
The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.

"

Do you have a problem with that, or is your problem more specifically with something else that you think I’ve done? If so, kindly speak up about it and tell me what you think I’m doing wrong, here. I honestly don’t see it.

No way. These odd ideas that you propose are more in line with the thinking of Paramahansa Yogananda and Self-realization Fellowship cult.

Again: please be very specific. What ideas do you wish to point to as “odd” and cult-like?

Barriers can be broken down without adopting some type of Catholic/Hindu fusion theology.

What should a person do, who finds himself in agreement with the spirit of the Yoga path, and who wishes to remain a faithful Catholic? Deny the logical sense that the Yoga path seems to make? Stop striving for universal truth, and force himself to become parochial?

If you are a faithful Catholic who hates the word ‘yoga’ or thinks that a Catholic cannot at the same time be a Yogi, then by all means, don’t use that word to describe what you do. But why try to tell me what to think?

You seem very dismissive of anything that might be new to you. Do you think your limited view of God is complete?

Thank God!

The episcopate in this era, I would not expect to give my ideas a second thought. I do not think this is the last era we will see.

This is based on the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita…it is not Catholic.

On the contrary, Mickey, Our Lady of Fatima specifically asked for the sacrifices necessary to carry out one’s duty according to one’s station in life. That sounds identical with Karma Yoga, to me.

I appreciate your charitable concern for me, that I may be deceived and you’d like to warn me against it. I’m not convinced of your qualification to know that, however, and while I do take it to heart, I don’t think that I can, in good conscience, deny what my logical mind grasps as the simple truth. I fully recognize that it would have been silly for me to think I could post my radical ideas here without being opposed, and you, so far, have presented all the opposition. I appreciate you speaking your mind. I’m not expecting anything I will ever say, to change it, and it is not necessary to me that I do.

But for the most part, you and I it seems, simply disagree. That’s O.K. too. The Church is not supposed to be a uniform. Let actual cults do those kinds of things. I am happy to pursue my relationship to God, and to honor my brothers and sisters in the Gaudiya Vaishnava who also pursue a relationship to God — the only God there is. I want to bring them all into the Catholic Church. I think I have a much better chance of doing that my way than I would yours.

Peace!

 

[Mickey]

I’ll wait for them to speak up, rather than take your word for it, thanks just the same.

Sounds good.

Are you under the impression that yoke and yoga are two different words?

Listen…Christ was not a supreme “yogi”…and he is not saying that his “yogi” is sweet. From my perspective, you are attempting to propose some type of bizarre Catholic-Hindu mixed theology. But since you are addressing Catholics on a Catholic forum…let us see what they have to say.

What exactly is the significance of Our Savior offering His “yoke” to His disciples?

We go to the Church Fathers for our interpretation…and I can assure you they were not Catholic-Hindu hybrids.

"Virtue’s yoke is sweet and light…Put thyself under this yoke with all forwardness, and then thou shalt know well the pleasure of it. For it doth not at all bruise thy neck, but is put on thee for good order’s sake only, and persuade thee to walk seemly, and to lead thee unto the royal road, and to deliver thee from the precipices on either side, and make thee walk with ease in the narrow way.
St John Chrysostom