Hindu's at Fatima

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The gods of the the Gentiles (at that time, pagan) are devils. That’s in psalms.

Regarding the consecration. It was to be of Russia and, despite my not approving of their attitude, I have to say Fr. Gruner and his Fatima Crusader have very well documented their claims. Mother Angelica didn’t buy the claim that Russia was consecrated to Mary’s Immaculate Heart, Sr Lucy repeatedly denied it was done, and the Pope apparently said it wasn’t done either (there is no doubt that the un-asked-for consecration of the World to her Immaculate Heart was done).

Now, the Crusader may be well documented with omissions due to not wanting to see something else (maybe like Limbaugh, Moore, or the mainstream press), but it is well-documented nonetheless (including some scary things said by clergy, esp. Msgr Guerra regarding Fatima desecration, and from secular sources when talking about the threat to us from Russia). As the local FSSP priest said to me, read it with a grain of salt and it’s better to read the lives of saints or something like that. I do not say one should read it uncritically and I would not recommend it to RCIA students or one who may leave the Church upon reading some things high clergy have said because you have to put it into perspective. If for no other reason to stay in the Church, the Church has the full truth, which will always be available somewhere even if confused by some clergy and theologians or hidden by outside oppressors of the Faith and the fundamental truths can never be changed. Praise the Lord! .
 
work(name removed by moderator)rogress:
Regarding the consecration. It was to be of Russia and, despite my not approving of their attitude, I have to say Fr. Gruner and his Fatima Crusader have very well documented their claims. Mother Angelica didn’t buy the claim that Russia was consecrated to Mary’s Immaculate Heart, Sr Lucy repeatedly denied it was done, and the Pope apparently said it wasn’t done either (there is no doubt that the un-asked-for consecration of the World to her Immaculate Heart was done).
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According to Fr Gruner’s rewording of the Holy Mother’s request, it was not done. But if one reads the original request, Russia was consecrated.

Sr Lucy has said that the consecration has been done and that the Holy Mother is satisfied.

Anyways, it doesn’t really matter all that much as this is a private message and is not part of the Deposite of the Faith and is not binding up Catholics to believe in.
 
The apparitions predicted a lot of things that happened. It was found worthy of belief. Therefore, if the devil didn’t fake her appearance, it was probably true and so is what all she told the seers. Therefore, it is very important that the consecration be done. Do you see any signs in Russia of her Triumph?
 
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Ken:
Hindus believe in God. Why would they be pagans? What is a pagan?
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A pagan is a follower of a polytheistic religion.
 
Are you sure? I thought it was anyone who has a God other than God. I learned from the zoo that the Maasai of Kenya had one god and so did a nomadic tribe with which they had friendly dealings. Then, there was that one pharoah who believed in one god. I think they would still be pagans. For some of the nasty things they would do for their gods, it’s amazing what limited expectations so many pagans have for their gods. Why couldn’t they conceive of one god over everything with unlimited knowledged and power and hopefully, tender mercy?
 
work(name removed by moderator)rogress:
Why couldn’t they conceive of one god over everything with unlimited knowledged and power and hopefully, tender mercy?
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Maybe they did.
 
I was talking about the polytheists.

In any case, of the Fatima prohesies, it believe it was said that Satan’s demons would enter into the hierarchy of the Church. In my opinion, people like Fr. Gruner is just as believable of the upper hierarchy of the Church on all non-binding, not going to be an issue of Pride if not bought (as opposed to advice given in confession unless the advice be against the magesterium or natural law), or whatever falls outside their authority such as whether the consecration of Russia was done. I think “Trust but verify” is a good slogan. Don’t be cynical because that can hurt the soul and lead to slandering or calumniating someone. Nevertheless, read other thoughts about it with a “Say it ain’t so” innocence if the other side has better evidence to the contrary. If priests have preached heresies in past decades, so could people of high office at the Vatican. Be careful. We may have to figure a lot out by reading good Catholic books until this blows over.
 
work(name removed by moderator)rogress:
I was talking about the polytheists.

In any case, of the Fatima prohesies, it believe it was said that Satan’s demons would enter into the hierarchy of the Church…
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Uh, Somehow I don’t quite recall that - can you post your reference for this?
work(name removed by moderator)rogress:
We may have to figure a lot out by reading good Catholic books until this blows over.
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Until what blows over?
 
work(name removed by moderator)rogress:
Then, there was that one pharoah who believed in one god.
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His name is Akenaton and he worshipped Aten the sun god. This made him a monotheist. The Egyptian priests didn’t like it a bit, they preferred paganism with their multi-gods and goddesses and when he died, (some feel unnaturally soon) they erased everything they could of his reign and his religious beliefs and returned to paganism.
work(name removed by moderator)rogress:
For some of the nasty things they would do for their gods, it’s amazing what limited expectations so many pagans have for their gods.
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I hate to bring it up, but monotheists, (Jews,Christians and Muslims alike) have done some pretty awful things too. And if you don’t think many of them seek to limit God into “their” particular version of Him, you haven’t been reading a lot.
 
work(name removed by moderator)rogress:
In any case, of the Fatima prohesies, it believe it was said that Satan’s demons would enter into the hierarchy of the Church.
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This document has the prophecies listed: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

To the point of the Consecration of Russia, the above linked document states:
]“O Mother of all men and women, and of all peoples, …snip…Embrace with the love of the Mother and Handmaid of the Lord, this human world of ours, which we entrust and consecrate to you, for we are full of concern for the earthly and eternal destiny of individuals and peoples.

**In a special way we entrust and consecrate to you those individuals and nations which particularly need to be thus entrusted and consecrated. **

The Pope then continued more forcefully and with more specific references, as though commenting on the Message of Fatima in its sorrowful fulfilment:

“Behold, as we stand before you, Mother of Christ, before your Immaculate Heart, we desire, together with the whole Church, to unite ourselves with the consecration which, for love of us, your Son made of himself to the Father: ‘For their sake’, he said, ‘I consecrate myself that they also may be consecrated in the truth’ (Jn 17:19). …snip…
The power of this consecrationlasts for all time and embraces all individuals, peoples and nations. It overcomes every evil that the spirit of darkness is able to awaken, and has in fact awakened in our times, in the heart of man and in his history. …snip…

Mother of the Church! Enlighten the People of God along the paths of faith, hope, and love**! Enlighten especially the peoples whose consecration and entrustment by us you are awaiting. ** Help us to live in the truth of the consecration of Christ for the entire human family of the modern world. …snip…

From sins against the life of man from its very beginning, deliver us.

From hatred and from the demeaning of the dignity of the children of God, deliver us.

From every kind of injustice in the life of society, both national and international, deliver us.

From readiness to trample on the commandments of God, deliver us.

From attempts to stifle in human hearts the very truth of God, deliver us.

From the loss of awareness of good and evil, deliver us.

From sins against the Holy Spirit, deliver us, deliver us.

…snip…

Let there be revealed, once more, in the history of the world the infinite saving power of the Redemption: the power of merciful Love! May it put a stop to evil! May it transform consciences! May your Immaculate Heart reveal for all the light of Hope!”.(4)

**Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished ** (“Sim, està feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Março de 1984”: “Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984”: Letter of 8 November 1989). Hence any further discussion or request is without basis.
Be in God’s Peace,
 
To Hagia Sophia: Mankind, in small units, can limit one god to vengeance only or love only, but the religions that hold to one god can, in my opinion, only believe that god can do anything,

LourdesLadyN: I used the “find” word search, having typed in “Russia”, and saw nothing that had consecration next to it except what Mary asked of the Pope and bishops.
Russia has developed weapons that can not be detected by our radars, they have a child porn epidemic, a porn epidemic, in general, amongst average Russians, many consider themselves Bolsheviks, I understand, and gang and mob violence has been epidemic since the fall of communism. We still suffer from the errors of Russia and I understand the ACLU and other anti-Christian institutions have been working on freer access to child porn/NAMBLA kind of stuff or decriminalizing it. What triumph? What promised period of peace? Even Pope Paul 6th said that the smoke of Satan has entered the Church. Who’s to say we aren’t having the wool pulled over our eyes by some in the hierarchy?
I don’t mean to sound bitter, but we have had bad management in Church history and it could be happening now. I don’t call them liars; I’m saying they could be (I heard from Patrick Madrid that Pope Sixtus V was about to sign a doctrine that went against the magesterium but died before making it law). But, the consecration being done or not is not an aspect of their authority so we still should obey them when they say what is in their authority to order lest it be against the magesterium or natural law. Let’s be real. How do we know Sr. Lucia actually said the consecration had been done? Maybe the question was asked badly or something got lost in translation. It’s not the authority of the hierarchy, as far as I know, to declare it so so it is open to dispute without sin. Judging the hierarchy who said it was done is a sin. Slandering, calumniating, fostering false suspicion is a sin (and forgive me if I did so, but if wrongdoing is hinted at for a greater good, my sentence may be lightened I hope, that is, unless that only applies to naming certain prelates)
 
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