His Holiness

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Ravyn_Guiliani said:
George W. Bush did not move to Texas until he was a teenager. He was born and raised in Maine I do believe.

It was very disrespectful of him to call the Pope “sir”. Does anyone know what the Pope called him?

Our priest called Jerry Falwell, “the Reverend Jerry Falwell” when he asked for us to pray for the repose of his soul after he died and acknowledged that his “flock” were now without their “pastor” and to pray for them and his family and friends in this time of distress. I could not help but think it was more than he might get if the situation was reversed.

Ravyn–in the ‘south’
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More than who would get? Sorry my brain is working at half capacity.
 
LDNCatholic said:
More than who would get? Sorry my brain is working at half capacity.
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our priest. we live about 10 miles from Rev. Falwell’s church and Liberty University, and there are times when it is not easy being Catholic here.
Ravyn
 
Ravyn_Guiliani said:
our priest. we live about 10 miles from Rev. Falwell’s church and Liberty University, and there are times when it is not easy being Catholic here.
Ravyn
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Ohhhh I thought your priest WAS called Jerry Falwell, I see you’re talking about that evangelist, sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
Ahimsa said:
It’s not easy being British.😃
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Yes especially embarrassing making a mistake in front of the former colonies…Still in my defence I’d never heard of the fella till he died and the news of it was posted here 😛
 
LDNCatholic said:
Yes especially embarrassing making a mistake in front of the former colonies…Still in my defence I’d never heard of the fella till he died and the news of it was posted here 😛
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for better or worse he shaped American Politics and Fundamentalism into what it is today.
I believe he was sincere in his zeal–even if it was misplaced at times. And he died working. He was not very kind to Catholics tho. But still he was given more respect from us than the President showed the Holy Father, IMO. :mad:
Ravyn
 
Ravyn_Guiliani said:
for better or worse he shaped American Politics and Fundamentalism into what it is today.
I believe he was sincere in his zeal–even if it was misplaced at times. And he died working. He was not very kind to Catholics tho. But still he was given more respect from us than the President showed the Holy Father, IMO. :mad:
Ravyn
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Yeah I agree with you that the pope should have been referred to as Your Holiness, his proper title.
 
LDNCatholic said:
Is it permissible for Catholics to address leaders of other faiths as ‘‘your/His Holiness’’ if that is the title used for them by members of their faith? For example, the Dalai Lama of the Tibetan Buddhists or Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslims. I am talking of course about legitimate religious leaders, not cult founders.
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I should have thought so - it is what they are called & how they are commonly referred to, & to do otherwise would be confusing, possibly even discourteous.​

OTOH, it could be objected that if one does not acknowledge the rightfulness of a title, one should not use it even so, as that would be an example of one’s
convictions & one’s words not matching. I think that can be answered by noting that:
  • while we must never compromise our profoundest convictions, & are never at liberty to deceive others about our intentions, as that would be to lie; it is equally true that not everything said to others is a profession of faith or doctrine.
  • Sometimes, we witness best by being polite - instead of making every encounter with non-Catholic “religious personnel” an opportunity to insist on the uniqueness of the priesthood (or whatever :))
  • ISTM that to make a point, all the time, of refusing to use such titles when borne by those whose entitlement is doctrinally not obvious (as it were), is to pass from conscientiousness & truthfulness, can become a form of the spiritual showing-off called “singularity” (see the link).
  • Sometimes, instead of “sticking out” like sore thumbs, we should follow the usual conventions adopted in society as the better way; especially if we can do nothing about them. A Catholic bishop referring to “His Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury” would not be admitting his jurisdiction or denying Apostolic Curae, but would simply be speaking politely. So with this. The Dalai Lama is not likely to become a Catholic AFAIK 🙂 - in the meantime, that is how he is in fact referred to.
    Source: Maxims of St. Philip Neri - members.aol.com/liturgialatina/neri/maxims.htm
 
Even the very name “Dalai Lama” is a title, meaning “Ocean of Wisdom”. So, if one refused to call him “His Holiness”, one should equally refuse to call him “Ocean of Wisdom”, and just call him by his given name, “Tenzin Gyatso”.:rolleyes:
 
I’ll find the reference, but I remember when John Paul II met the Dalai Lama they called each other “Your Holiness”. What was good for the Holy Father would be good enough for me.

John
 
LDNCatholic said:
Yes but I was asking whether or not it is permissible for Catholics to use these titles for leaders of another faith. For instance, as an Ahmadi Muslim would you call the pope ‘‘Your Holiness’’ or ‘‘Holy Father’’?
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Hi
I could say him ‘Your Holiness’ or ‘Respected Sir’ anything like that.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
I read the response in AAA too, including the link provided.

While “sir” is indeed a respectful term to used and is used often here in the American South (because we’re awesomely polite that way 😉 ), it would seem a bit paltry for religious leaders like the pope.
 
Curious said:
I read the response in AAA too, including the link provided.

While “sir” is indeed a respectful term to used and is used often here in the American South (because we’re awesomely polite that way 😉 ), it would seem a bit paltry for religious leaders like the pope.
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How so? “sir” is much much better then saying “dude” 😛
 
LDNCatholic said:
Or saying Yo to a fellow head of state :rolleyes:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5189048.stm
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I read through the link and the thing that stood out for me was the opening statement: “That at least is how George Bush greets the PM in private, according to unguarded remarks they both made in front of an open G8 microphone.”

Bush or Blair did not know that they were being recorded. I’m sure Bush is not the first president to have “casual” conversation with other world leaders, such as the PM.

Do you ever wonder what the pope’s closets friends and family call him or address him? Do you think that in private they always call him “Your Holiness” or do you think it’s possible that they call him Joseph?

If I had to be “formal” all the time with my friends, co-workers, family, etc.
I would go crazy!!

I personal don’t see what was wrong with Bush say “Yo, Blair” in what they both thought was a private conversation. (Clearly Blair, who has a working relationship with Bush, didn’t care)
Curious said:
😃 I suppose you’re right. Perhaps it’s all relative. 😛
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It is all relative. It is acceptable for us Catholics to say “sir” to other religious figures, such as the Dalai Lama, because of fear of undue scandal.

Therefore it should be acceptable for Non-Catholics to say “sir” to the Pope. Besides, what did the Pope have to say or think of this? From what can tell he was okay and didn’t get bent out of shape. Maybe we should take a lesson from the pope…
 
Different situations call for different sort of protocols. Being loose and casual all the time is no more appropriate than being stiff and formal all the time. Balance. 👍
 
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