His Satanic Majesty

[assassin99]

Does the devil really exist? If so, why? What is the theological purpose of having an utterly evil being? Is he a god? Does he have power in this world? Does the devil make me commit sins? If so, does that get me off the hook of responsibility for my actions? Is it a sin to not believe in the Devil?

 

[Brain]

Yes, he really exists.

He is good in that he exists and is powerful and was made by God. but he chose to turn away from God, and thus kind of created the idea of evil: the deprivation of good. Evil has no positive substance, it is nothing but a lack of good. Imagine good as a glass of milk, you can have milk (good) or you can have an empty glass (evil) you cannot have apple juice becuase there isnt any (which is what temptation is, a lie that tells you there is somthing to gain in evil)

He decided that he would not serve or love God,and as an angel he can see the full rammifications of his actions and so he cannot nor does he want to repent

It would actually be cruel of God to not have allowed this because God is not a rapist and doe snot force his love on people who don’t want it.

I belive he has power in this world, but greatly diminished than what he was originally made to be. He is a fallen angel, not a god. There is only 1 god, no others.

He does not make us sin, but can tempt us to sin. Ever had that inexplicable “anti-conscience” telling you that what you are contemplating “isnt THAT bad.” but you are not off the hook b/c you also have free will and can choose to ignore him. If you give in anyway, it is a sin because you are abusing your freedom and choosing to do other than what would please, or at least not sadden, God.
Not beliving in the devil, if not a sin which I belive it may be if you do so knowing that the Church teaches his existance, is at least very foolish. As essentially his gretest lie is “I dont exist, evil is illuionary.”

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

assassin99:

Does the devil really exist?

Yup. The greatest lie he’s perpetrated is to convince people he doesn’t exist.

assassin99:

If so, why?

He rebelled against God, and was ousted from heaven. See Revelations and the "war with Satan’. He was not created as evil - he chose to rebel, and so became evil - due to separation from God.

assassin99:

What is the theological purpose of having an utterly evil being?

Personally, (I have not researched this - someone else probably has a better theological answer) I believe it is for our perfection. Struggling against evil (sin) brings patience, perseverance, strength, and hope, as well as humility from our many falls.

assassin99:

Is he a god? Does he have power in this world?

He is lord of this world - but he is already defeated. (See the Gospels, especially Our Lords temptation) In any event - he is still subject to God Almighty as a creature…a created being, although immortal - he will spend eternity in hell which was created for him…not us. We just end up joining whomever we choose to follow, and spend eternity with our choice.

assassin99:

Does the devil make me commit sins?

Nope - all he can do is decieve…you choose to do what you do. We have free will.

assassin99:

If so, does that get me off the hook of responsibility for my actions?

Nope - it is your choice to sin. Culpability doesn’t end with “The devil made me do it” although HOW culpable you are is determined somewhat, by how much you knew - or should have known - based on the information you are given regarding whatever issue you are guilty of. Does that make sense?

assassin99:

Is it a sin to not believe in the Devil?

I’m not sure about that. God himself told us about Satan, and He cannot lie, decieve, nor be decieved so not believing might be a venial sin in that respect…however - I do not think it wise to ignore our adversary in any event.

I hope that helped to clear some things up.

Peace

John

 

[Church_Militant]

Contrary to most mistaken thought on this subject there is nothing that even implies that the devil is equal in power to God.

Satan is a created being… an angel (perhaps an archangel) which means that he had a beginning and cannot create.

He may try to pass himself off as God’s equal (which was the problem from the outset anyway) but if anything he might have once been comparable to St. Michael, but he and his allies had their defeat handed to them by Michael and the other angels.

Revelation 12:7 And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: 8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Question? How much majesty does a defeated despot have?
Pax tecum,

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

Church Militant:

Question? How much majesty does a defeated despot have?
Pax tecum,

:bigyikes:

Well Lucifer does mean ‘Light Bringer’…however, I rather think that has dimmed somewhat…but, maybe not - as he still can appear as an angel of light.

OTOH, Majesty does imply a bit more than that, doesn’t it?

 

[Church_Militant]

:bigyikes:

Well Lucifer does mean ‘Light Bringer’…however, I rather think that has dimmed somewhat…but, maybe not - as he still can appear as an angel of light.

OTOH, Majesty does imply a bit more than that, doesn’t it?

Yeah but I’ve never seen anything anywhere in the Word of God or in any teaching of the church that says that weinie (LOSER) has any majesty. He was created to give glory to God…if he fails in that then there can be little majesty or glory in him. He’s a traitor…

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

Church Militant:

Yeah but I’ve never seen anything anywhere in the Word of God or in any teaching of the church that says that weinie (LOSER) has any majesty. He was created to give glory to God…if he fails in that then there can be little majesty or glory in him. He’s a traitor…

i completely agree - my response was tongue in cheek - to say the least. I was going to comment on that in my response…but decided to let it pass.

Peace

John

 

[Church_Militant]

PraRFLEsEkHm:

i completely agree - my response was tongue in cheek - to say the least. I was going to comment on that in my response…but decided to let it pass.

Peace

John

'Salright. I figure as much.

 

[Imprimartin]

assassin99:

Does the devil really exist? If so, why? What is the theological purpose of having an utterly evil being? Is he a god? Does he have power in this world? Does the devil make me commit sins? If so, does that get me off the hook of responsibility for my actions? Is it a sin to not believe in the Devil?

I’m not sure anything can be accomplished by determining the amount of majesty Satan has. If Majesty = grace, then Satan has very little if any at all. I think a more important question is what you have already asked: What is the theological purpose of such a being?

Answer: Freewill means nothing if you have nothing to choose from. If God created us and then asked us to choose him, we would be sitting in heaven saying, “that wasn’t much of a choice”

If God using his powers smites Satan, He can’t go around saying, 'We won!" We would all know the reason why: Because God has bigger guns.

God wants to win because he’s the good guy. He wants to win the hard way, like an underdog. When you think we’re losing, we’ll win. and it’ll be a legitimate win when using our hindsight as we sit in heaven (hopefully)

You can’t have a legitimate win without an legitimate opponent . . .Even if he’s only a created creature.

He can’t hurt God directly, but he can get to those the ones He loves: us.

Martin

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

assassin99:

Does the devil really exist? If so, why? What is the theological purpose of having an utterly evil being?

An utterly evil being is an impossibility - the devil is still good in origin. A ruined angel - which is what the devil is - has no capacity to be or become utterly evil, because it can’t de-create its being; that would take infinite power, and no created being has infinite power: and being & good are different terms for the same thing. So insofar as anything has being, it is good; insofar as it is good, it has being.​

Only God is infinite in power, so only God can create. This is because God is infinite Goodness & infinite Being. The devil is not infinitely good, so, can’t annihilate itself. ##

Is he a god?

No way ! The devil is ruined so completely that it barely exists - it’s in a very advanced state of decomposition (so to say). It has less reality about it than an atom, because an atom, though nearly nothing, is at least good as the almost nothing that it is; it’s not evil to be an atom. To be what the devil is, is an evil.​

It’s very difficult to talk about evil - to do so is to try to talk sensibly about something that is senseless.

That is what damnation does - it leads to disintegration of one’s being, because it is by being related to God in His Love that created beings “hold together”. Take away God’s Love, and we fall to pieces. And it has rejected God’s Love, totally. What this means, can be glimpsed, very dimly, by considering what the saints would be, if they were damned; the devil is, basically, a ruined saint. And in losing God - deliberately, freely, knowingly, willingly - it has lost everything; for all that it could lose without ceasing to exist, it has.

So its condition is utterly anti-natural - it can’t do without God, but it is too ruined to be able to know God in the way it was created to do so. So it is utterly miserable. It’s like a dog with rabies: mad, bad, dangerous.

Does he have power in this world? Does the devil make me commit sins? If so, does that get me off the hook of responsibility for my actions? Is it a sin to not believe in the Devil?

1. One believes that there is a devil - one does not “believe in” the devil. There’s​

an important difference, though I forget just what it is.

1. The existence of the devil does not of itself relieve us of our accountability to God; temptation does not take away the ability to exercise free will. Sin is a free act, uncompelled by anything - which is why it is so serious: it is something that we are not forced to do; not even by the devil. So it won’t do to say “The devil made me do X” - no: I do X, it is the individual’s sin, not the devil’s.

Free Will is an almost God-like gift - it gives us the freedom to choose to respond to God’s Love, instead of being passively moved about by it: we are not ruled by necessity, but can influence the environment we live in, and be aware that we do so; including our spiritual environment. And where there is the freedom to respond to Love, there is the freedom to reject it. So it is a wonderful & terrifying gift.

1. the devil is like a mad dog on a long leash - it’s chained, though it makes a hideous noise. We won’t be chewed by it, as long as we don’t put ourselves in a position to be chewed.

IMO, we flatter the devil by thinking much about it. Positive Love of God is better, not only because love for God will give us an allergy to wounding Him by sin (which is what “offending” Him is - “wounding” Him); but also because love, by its nature, strengthens love.

Besides, the victory of Christ on the Cross has shattered the power of the devil and abolished death - the Church’s work is to finish the mopping-up operations. So the thing called the devil is, for all purposes worth discussing, finished.

BTW - “majestic” is one word that does not suit the devil at all “Ridiculous”, possibly The weakest lover of Christ is more majestic than the devil. It’s a bad joke, and a crashing bore - as Cheserton says, it “fell by force of gravity”.