Hispanic meaning of "Christian"

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I live in the Dallas area. I am white, but I have a lot of hispanic friends, know a lot of hispanic people, mostly Mexican. I’m grateful to be exposed to another culture, and many of them are Catholic, which is also very cool! However, I’m starting to see more of them talk of either them or their parents being raised Catholic, but now going to a “Christian” church. By Christian, they mean non-Catholic.

Catholics are Christians, right? Why not say Protestant or be more specific about which church? Their wording confuses me, and actually kind of frustrates me, because it seems to be implying that Catholics aren’t Christians… I’m not sure how much of it may be due to a cultural/language difference.

Is there a cultural/language difference here that I may be missing? If I’m having a conversation and someone says Christian, meaning non-Catholic, should I emphasize that Catholics are Christians? Or would you suggest I proceed with the conversation in a different way?
 
It’s not a “Hispanic” term, it’s a protestant/evangelical terminology. The evangelicals tend to believe in an invisible church made up of all “real” believers, no matter what “church” they are a part of. Many of them do not believe the Catholic Church is Christian.
 
Yes. Also, by Christian, they mean a church which has no particular governance. Stand alone churches.
Many of them offer ESL classes and transportation. They love bomb people.
Parishes seldom offer transportation or English language classes.
They go where they receive a lot of support, and stay out of a sense of owing them. They are told it doesn’t matter where you go, as long as you show up.
I don’t really think your friends don’t believe the Catholic church is not Christian. It’s just that they don’t really have a title for the those places. Many are called simply “Believer’s Christian” or something similar and are not affiliated with any denomination.
Just try to be a good Catholic and lead them home if you can.
God bless you.
 
It’s not a “Hispanic” term, it’s a protestant/evangelical terminology. The evangelicals tend to believe in an invisible church made up of all “real” believers, no matter what “church” they are a part of. Many of them do not believe the Catholic Church is Christian.
Exactly. It isn’t a Hispanic term. It seems to come from an Evangelical background.
 
I live in sight of Mexico and have some fluency in the religious environment.

TMU, the use of “cristiano” meaning “non-Catholic” began about two generations ago, back when there was much more attachment to the Church than now, and those missionizing as “protestantes” would have got nothing but opprobrium. So they took to self-identifying as “cristianos” because that word was perceived as nonnegative (as it should be).

Over time the term, in Spanish, became associated with non-Catholics.

It may not be unique to the Spanish-language orbit, but has certainly become ubiquitous there.

ICXC NIKA.
 
However, I’m starting to see more of them talk of either them or their parents being raised Catholic, but now going to a “Christian” church. By Christian, they mean non-Catholic.

Catholics are Christians, right? Why not say Protestant or be more specific about which church? Their wording confuses me, and actually kind of frustrates me, because it seems to be implying that Catholics aren’t Christians… I’m not sure how much of it may be due to a cultural/language difference.
Consider that “pc” is an abbreviation for “personal computer”, and use your favorite search engines to look for “mac versus pc.” Are the Apple computers that have the name “Mac” examples of impersonal (rather than personal) computers?

Fact checking allows us to confirm that Apple produced a “Lisa” computer before Apple started selling its first model of Macintosh computers. Can Marge, Homer, and Bart use a Lisa computer, or is that kind of computer only for Lisa?

Do you drive on the parkway and park on the driveway?

The topic seems to be language, but you can use language to ask questions directly to the people who are using language in a way that you experience as confusing. Physical beauty is only skin-deep, and the topic of this thread seems to be only language-deep.

Now, ask yourself how you will react when you discover that some people have attitudes and beliefs that offend you …
 
Consider that “pc” is an abbreviation for “personal computer”, and use your favorite search engines to look for “mac versus pc.” Are the Apple computers that have the name “Mac” examples of impersonal (rather than personal) computers?

Fact checking allows us to confirm that Apple produced a “Lisa” computer before Apple started selling its first model of Macintosh computers. Can Marge, Homer, and Bart use a Lisa computer, or is that kind of computer only for Lisa?

Do you drive on the parkway and park on the driveway?

The topic seems to be language, but you can use language to ask questions directly to the people who are using language in a way that you experience as confusing. Physical beauty is only skin-deep, and the topic of this thread seems to be only language-deep.

Now, ask yourself how you will react when you discover that some people have attitudes and beliefs that offend you …
I didn’t get that the OP was offended in any way.
:rolleyes:
 
I didn’t get that the OP was offended in any way.
:rolleyes:
From the message that begins this thread:
“Their wording … actually kind of frustrates me”

One definition of the word “frustrated”:
feeling or expressing distress and annoyance

This is an interesting case study, because the word “frustrates” itself was used, so I suppose that a better definition of “frustrate” would include the option of directly using the word “frustrates” to describe what is being experienced.

One definition of the word “offended”:
resentful or annoyed, typically as a result of a perceived insult.

“… because it seems to be implying that Catholics aren’t Christians”
That sounds like an insult to Catholics.
 
I live in sight of Mexico and have some fluency in the religious environment.

TMU, the use of “cristiano” meaning “non-Catholic” began about two generations ago, back when there was much more attachment to the Church than now, and those missionizing as “protestantes” would have got nothing but opprobrium. So they took to self-identifying as “cristianos” because that word was perceived as nonnegative (as it should be).

Over time the term, in Spanish, became associated with non-Catholics.

It may not be unique to the Spanish-language orbit, but has certainly become ubiquitous there.

ICXC NIKA.
Thanks GEddie, that’s helpful
 
Consider that “pc” is an abbreviation for “personal computer”, and use your favorite search engines to look for “mac versus pc.” Are the Apple computers that have the name “Mac” examples of impersonal (rather than personal) computers?

Fact checking allows us to confirm that Apple produced a “Lisa” computer before Apple started selling its first model of Macintosh computers. Can Marge, Homer, and Bart use a Lisa computer, or is that kind of computer only for Lisa?

Do you drive on the parkway and park on the driveway?

The topic seems to be language, but you can use language to ask questions directly to the people who are using language in a way that you experience as confusing. Physical beauty is only skin-deep, and the topic of this thread seems to be only language-deep.

Now, ask yourself how you will react when you discover that some people have attitudes and beliefs that offend you …
I think what I’m taking away from this thread is it’s better to let the “Christian” terminology go. There’s no offense to be taken from that. Rather, a better way to progress in the conversation may be to ask why one left the Catholic faith and go from there.

PseuTonym, this thread is about language. But is a thread ever “only language-deep”? I view language as a tool and a means, not an end in itself. There is a deeper purpose beyond the language.

I “discovered” some people have attitudes/beliefs that offend me a long time ago, as most of us have. Most of us interact with such people regularly. How do I react? Hopefully with love, compassion, and courage….but, of course, I’m not perfect either.
 
I live in the Dallas area.

Is there a cultural/language difference here that I may be missing?
Are you new to Dallas because that is not a cultural thing, I know plenty of white, black, and brown folks who use that phrase, it’s pretty common in the South and somewhat where i I live now, in the Midwest.

And there are plenty of non-Catholic, Christian denominations that in fact do NOT believe Catholics are Christians.

So it could be either-- they don’t think Catholics are Christians or they are just expressing they are no longer Catholic.

Certainly say something if it bothers you,
 
Catholics are Christians, right?
Yes, Catholics are Christians. They are the first Christians.
Why not say Protestant or be more specific about which church?
The term Protestant was given them those who protested against the Catholic Church during the Reformation. It is not what they call themselves.
Their wording confuses me, and actually kind of frustrates me, because it seems to be implying that Catholics aren’t Christians.
In some cases they are implying that Catholics are not Christians. It is a tactic some Protestant churches use to insinuate that the Catholic Church is wrong.
Is there a cultural/language difference here that I may be missing?
No, just a lack of history. No offense.
If I’m having a conversation and someone says Christian, meaning non-Catholic, should I emphasize that Catholics are Christians? Or would you suggest I proceed with the conversation in a different way?
Yes, you should.
 
Are you new to Dallas because that is not a cultural thing, I know plenty of white, black, and brown folks who use that phrase, it’s pretty common in the South and somewhat where i I live now, in the Midwest.

And there are plenty of non-Catholic, Christian denominations that in fact do NOT believe Catholics are Christians.

So it could be either-- they don’t think Catholics are Christians or they are just expressing they are no longer Catholic.

Certainly say something if it bothers you,
I’m not new to Dallas, but this is something I’ve only started hearing within the last 5 years or so. No doubt, it could be because I didn’t have many close Hispanic friends growing up or I wasn’t as inquisitive in my younger years. However, I think GEddie has a grasp on what I’m speaking of. What I’m referring to is a cultural thing – this is specific to Hispanics because of the sheer number of Catholics they have, and by extent, how many of them have left the Catholic faith in recent years. That in itself doesn’t mean that non-Hispanics don’t use “Christian” and “Non-Catholic” interchangeably…but in my experience anyways, I can’t recall it happening.
 
I can confirm this happens in the northern states as well.
Growing up Protestant (various denominations) it was very common for Protestants to call themselves Christian, while making a clear distinction between themselves and Catholics (refusing to call Catholics Christian).

Many do not fully understand the teachings of the Catholic Church. A common thing I would hear is that Catholics are heavily influenced by cult and/or pagan teachings. Of course, they typically learn these things from their churches/pastors, rather than actually asking people that are practicing Catholics or attending mass to find out for themselves that it’s not true.
 
I live in the Dallas area. I am white, but I have a lot of hispanic friends, know a lot of hispanic people, mostly Mexican. I’m grateful to be exposed to another culture, and many of them are Catholic, which is also very cool! However, I’m starting to see more of them talk of either them or their parents being raised Catholic, but now going to a “Christian” church. By Christian, they mean non-Catholic.

Catholics are Christians, right? Why not say Protestant or be more specific about which church? Their wording confuses me, and actually kind of frustrates me, because it seems to be implying that Catholics aren’t Christians… I’m not sure how much of it may be due to a cultural/language difference.

Is there a cultural/language difference here that I may be missing? If I’m having a conversation and someone says Christian, meaning non-Catholic, should I emphasize that Catholics are Christians? Or would you suggest I proceed with the conversation in a different way?
Okay, so Hispanics are definitely not a race, and many self identify as white (53% per the 2010 US census, not to mention the current Pope is clearly White and from a Spanish speaking country.). With regards to terminology, I think it just may be more common to identify that was many Protestants do. In the southeast if a church says “Christian church” it usually just means “Protestant”. Often Calvinist. By the way, my Ex girlfriend is Hispanic and was born in San Antonio. San Antonio is both predominantly White and Predominantly Hispanic. Sorry OP, it bothers me when people don’t know that. You calling yourself white is like saying some Hispanics aren’t. Just a pet peeve.
 
Okay, so Hispanics are definitely not a race, and many self identify as white (53% per the 2010 US census, not to mention the current Pope is clearly White and from a Spanish speaking country.). With regards to terminology, I think it just may be more common to identify that was many Protestants do. In the southeast if a church says “Christian church” it usually just means “Protestant”. Often Calvinist. By the way, my Ex girlfriend is Hispanic and was born in San Antonio. San Antonio is both predominantly White and Predominantly Hispanic. Sorry OP, it bothers me when people don’t know that. You calling yourself white is like saying some Hispanics aren’t. Just a pet peeve.
Thanks for pointing that out Adam, I know this is a sensitive issue. I think you’re right, I misspoke. I should have said I am not Hispanic rather than white since I am not referring to color of skin but culture and country of origin. No need for you apologize, I’m glad you spoke your mind… I’m sorry if that was offensive to you.
 
I think they’re adopting it from the wider southern (American) culture. I wouldn’t buy it - I would continue to refer to Protestants as Protestants and Catholics as Catholics, and Christians as the two taken together. I think it’s a subtle form of propaganda.

You could ask them to clarify: “Ah, by Christian you mean Protestant? Oh I see.”
 
I live in the Dallas area. I am white, but I have a lot of hispanic friends, know a lot of hispanic people, mostly Mexican. I’m grateful to be exposed to another culture, and many of them are Catholic, which is also very cool! However, I’m starting to see more of them talk of either them or their parents being raised Catholic, but now going to a “Christian” church. By Christian, they mean non-Catholic.

Catholics are Christians, right? Why not say Protestant or be more specific about which church? Their wording confuses me, and actually kind of frustrates me, because it seems to be implying that Catholics aren’t Christians… I’m not sure how much of it may be due to a cultural/language difference.

Is there a cultural/language difference here that I may be missing? If I’m having a conversation and someone says Christian, meaning non-Catholic, should I emphasize that Catholics are Christians? Or would you suggest I proceed with the conversation in a different way?
Perhaps these people of whom you speak have found that “Christian” is the best qualifier to describe them…better than others. It distinguishes them, in a way, from Catholic and Orthodox (though all of us are, in fact, also Christians).

Perhaps they don’t use the qualifier “Protestant” because that is not at all how they see or understand themselves…or their origin. In history, the word actually does have a specific meaning and specific application. Not every follower of Jesus Christ in the West who is not Catholic is for being non-Catholic, thereby, “Protestant.”

In my years with the ecumenical dialogue, I have known and interacted with many who not only did not identify themselves in terms of the events of the 16th century, they did not identify themselves with movements within Christianity of the immediate subsequent centuries either.

Imposing a title on others that is neither historically accurate nor of significance or meaning to the ones being identified is rather non-serving both to them and to us.

It is rather off-putting when people use in my regard qualifiers which do not do justice to my self-understanding of my own identity.

Rather the Council Fathers of Vatican II, in Unitatis Redintegratio, gave guidance in how to proceed:
The term “ecumenical movement” indicates the initiatives and activities planned and undertaken, according to the various needs of the Church and as opportunities offer, to promote Christian unity. These are: first, every effort to avoid expressions, judgments and actions which do not represent the condition of our separated brethren with truth and fairness and so make mutual relations with them more difficult; then, “dialogue” between competent experts from different Churches and Communities. At these meetings, which are organized in a religious spirit, each explains the teaching of his Communion in greater depth and brings out clearly its distinctive features. In such dialogue, everyone gains a truer knowledge and more just appreciation of the teaching and religious life of both Communions.
In a few short weeks now, we begin the joint commemoration with Lutherans around the world of the Reformation. I am reminded of an early passage in From Conflict to Communion, which is the underlying document to the joint commemoration
10. In the last century, Christianity has become increasingly global. There are today Christians of various confessions throughout the whole world; the number of Christians in the South is growing, while the number of Christians in the North is shrinking. The churches of the South are continually assuming a greater importance within worldwide Christianity. These churches do not easily see the confessional conflicts of the sixteenth century as their own conflicts, even if they are connected to the churches of Europe and North America through various Christian world communions and share with them a common doctrinal basis. With regard to the year 2017, it will be very important to take seriously the contributions, questions, and perspectives of these churches.
I would take this even farther. There are communities that have arisen within the last century for whom there is no interest in comparing, contrasting, or defining themselves in terms of Catholicism or Orthodoxy…or the communities which emerged relative to the thought or inspiration or struggle of Luther, Calvin or Zwingli.

I would not over-think the issue of having to explicitly say that, when you use the qualifier Christian, you do not thereby disqualify Catholics as being Christians. When I reference a priest who is of one of the Orthodox Churches, I do not thereby convey that I consider myself to be a heterodox priest! When I refer to myself as Catholic, I do not convey thereby that Orthodoxy is not, in fact, also universal in its extension.
 
I think they’re adopting it from the wider southern (American) culture. I wouldn’t buy it - I would continue to refer to Protestants as Protestants and Catholics as Catholics, and Christians as the two taken together. I think it’s a subtle form of propaganda.

You could ask them to clarify: "Ah, by Christian you mean Protestant? Oh I see."
Your last sentence makes me very sad, for you, for others who believe in and love the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am shocked frankly and would ask you to think again please, Thank you.
 
Let’s not get too nuanced and sensitive. Human life is choking on nuance these days.

The fact is that there are three main divisions in Christendom and that the general culture identifies them as such.

While few people or institutions self-identify as “Protestant”, everybody knows what it means, even without recourse to events in the 15-1600s.

It will take man-decades of penance, oceans of tears, and possibly even a few martyrdoms before “Christian” again refers to a reunified body.

ICXC NIKA.
 
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