Hispanic meaning of "Christian"

[tomarin]

Your last sentence makes me very sad, for you, for others who believe in and love the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am shocked frankly and would ask you to think again please, Thank you.

Properly speaking ‘Christian’ should refer to both Protestant and Catholics. We’re not less Christian than they are. Do you not agree?

 

[tomarin]

Properly speaking ‘Christian’ should refer to both Protestant and Catholics. We’re not less Christian than they are. Do you not agree?

I am sad that my comment made you sad, by the way. The last thing I meant to do was offend anyone - and I certainly didn’t mean that Protestants aren’t Christians, if that’s how you understood it.

 

[twf]

My wife is Dominican. Colloquially, in the DR, the term *Cristiano * does indeed typically refer to Evangelical or Pentecostal Protestants. It is still natural for my wife to respond “No he’s Catholic not Christian”. Interestingly, even my regular confessor, when I was spending a good deal of time down there, used the term in this way. I remember him once speaking of the “Catholic canon” of Scripture vs the “Christian canon” of Scripture.

 

[twf]

Perhaps these people of whom you speak have found that “Christian” is the best qualifier to describe them…better than others. It distinguishes them, in a way, from Catholic and Orthodox (though all of us are, in fact, also Christians).

Perhaps they don’t use the qualifier “Protestant” because that is not at all how they see or understand themselves…or their origin. In history, the word actually does have a specific meaning and specific application. Not every follower of Jesus Christ in the West who is not Catholic is for being non-Catholic, thereby, “Protestant.”

In my years with the ecumenical dialogue, I have known and interacted with many who not only did not identify themselves in terms of the events of the 16th century, they did not identify themselves with movements within Christianity of the immediate subsequent centuries either.

Imposing a title on others that is neither historically accurate nor of significance or meaning to the ones being identified is rather non-serving both to them and to us.

It is rather off-putting when people use in my regard qualifiers which do not do justice to my self-understanding of my own identity.

Rather the Council Fathers of Vatican II, in Unitatis Redintegratio, gave guidance in how to proceed:
The term “ecumenical movement” indicates the initiatives and activities planned and undertaken, according to the various needs of the Church and as opportunities offer, to promote Christian unity. These are: first, every effort to avoid expressions, judgments and actions which do not represent the condition of our separated brethren with truth and fairness and so make mutual relations with them more difficult; then, “dialogue” between competent experts from different Churches and Communities. At these meetings, which are organized in a religious spirit, each explains the teaching of his Communion in greater depth and brings out clearly its distinctive features. In such dialogue, everyone gains a truer knowledge and more just appreciation of the teaching and religious life of both Communions.
In a few short weeks now, we begin the joint commemoration with Lutherans around the world of the Reformation. I am reminded of an early passage in From Conflict to Communion, which is the underlying document to the joint commemoration
10. In the last century, Christianity has become increasingly global. There are today Christians of various confessions throughout the whole world; the number of Christians in the South is growing, while the number of Christians in the North is shrinking. The churches of the South are continually assuming a greater importance within worldwide Christianity. These churches do not easily see the confessional conflicts of the sixteenth century as their own conflicts, even if they are connected to the churches of Europe and North America through various Christian world communions and share with them a common doctrinal basis. With regard to the year 2017, it will be very important to take seriously the contributions, questions, and perspectives of these churches.
I would take this even farther. There are communities that have arisen within the last century for whom there is no interest in comparing, contrasting, or defining themselves in terms of Catholicism or Orthodoxy…or the communities which emerged relative to the thought or inspiration or struggle of Luther, Calvin or Zwingli.

I would not over-think the issue of having to explicitly say that, when you use the qualifier Christian, you do not thereby disqualify Catholics as being Christians. When I reference a priest who is of one of the Orthodox Churches, I do not thereby convey that I consider myself to be a heterodox priest! When I refer to myself as Catholic, I do not convey thereby that Orthodoxy is not, in fact, also universal in its extension.

Father,
You raise some good points. Often it is as you describe. Certainly the Catholic priest I referred to in my post above did not use the term in this manner in an attempt to exclude Catholicism from Christianity. That being said, there are certain communities active in Latin America that are very much and very vocally anti-Catholic who do claim the title Cristiano in a manner that excludes Catholics. I think of certain Evangelical groups in my wife’s native DR who trail behind Catholic processions shouting “idolaters! idolaters! idolaters!”.

We certainly do have to be careful with terminology. On this forum, the term “Protestant” almost exclusively refers to American Evangelicalism. You’ll often see posters saying thing such as “Protestants reject the Real Presence”. It is ironic when, as you point out Father, the term Protestant is historically more closely associated with Lutheranism, which certainly does acknowledge a Eucharistic Real Presence, than it is with modern American Evangelicalism.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Father,
You raise some good points. Often it is as you describe. Certainly the Catholic priest I referred to in my post above did not use the term in this manner in an attempt to exclude Catholicism from Christianity. That being said, there are certain communities active in Latin America that are very much and very vocally anti-Catholic who do claim the title Cristiano in a manner that excludes Catholics. I think of certain Evangelical groups in my wife’s native DR who trail behind Catholic processions shouting “idolaters! idolaters! idolaters!”.

Yes…I am aware of this. It is sad that, in the 21st century, such things still happen. Unfortunately, there are always people who are ill educated or of ill will…or both.

We certainly do have to be careful with terminology. On this forum, the term “Protestant” almost exclusively refers to American Evangelicalism. You’ll often see posters saying thing such as “Protestants reject the Real Presence”. It is ironic when, as you point out Father, the term Protestant is historically more closely associated with Lutheranism, which certainly does acknowledge a Eucharistic Real Presence, than it is with modern American Evangelicalism.

In fact, I have noted the usage (actually over application of the term) by certain posters in this forum. Just because something is used, however, does not mean that the use is correct…and I have also noted that non-Catholic participants on this forum have underscored the misapplied terminology. It is unfortunate that they should even have to, given the familiarity every Catholic should have with both Church history and also the ecumenical movement in the wake of Unitatis Redintegratio, with which every Catholic should be thoroughly versed…after more than 50 years of availability.

 

[Viki63]

My husband refers to people who attend Protestant churches as “hermanos,” brothers.
I think that’s a good description.
If anyone brought up Christian, meaning Protestant, I would mention that Catholics are Christians too. People need to know the truth.

.

 

[carefullytread]

I’ve met a few Central Americans who were ex-Catholics and very adamant that they thought Catholics weren’t Christians, not simply that Christian was a synonym for Protestants.

Something that I think is easy to forget from a US perspective is that in Latin America, the Catholic faith as it is often practiced can be very syncretic, with elements of location superstitions woven integrally into the faith.

Protestants like to say that Catholics worship the saints. The Church doesn’t teach that you worship them, she teaches that you pray to them to intercede for you with God. But that’s definitely not how the faith is often practiced in Latin America. I’ve found lots of blending of saint worship with local magical traditions that is often tolerated by the local Catholic priests.

It’s the Pentecostals and non-denoms who loudly preach against this stuff and their converts associate Catholicism with the syncretic practices they are turning against.

I don’t know if that’s what is going on with the Mexican population in Texas, but maybe it is?