Historic Cathedral To Be Stripped Of Its Art

[CutlerB]

In an article on the German Bishops’ Conference’s official news page, the Auxiliary Bishop of Hildesheim, Hans-Georg Koitz, states the following:

In times in which “religious air is thinner”, churches like the Hildesheim cathedral must function more strongly as centres that attract people.

“I hope we correctly interpret people’s feelings [sort of awareness, etc.] and manage to build bridges between God and man by being a Church that walks alongside people, that asks and searches. …] I’d like to take that into account in everything that takes place in the cathedral.”, says Koitz.

katholisch.de/de/katholisch/themen/news/page_news.php?id=17730

The article goes on to say:

It’s about strengthening the relationship between the individual and God, and solidarity among the people, in the end.

In architectural terms, that will be achieved in the cathedral — which is part of the UNESCO Cultural heritage register — by reducing the number of steps before the altar, among other measures. “In this way, we can bring the altar further towards the people and thus reduce the distance between them and the priest.” The builders would also reduce the amount of art and go for a concentrated interior design to emphasise the essential.“The soul shall be able to relax” in the cathedral …] “This shall not apply only to Catholics but to anyone attracted to religion and art”, says Koitz. “Exterior forms change. I hope the Faith’s internal form, though, will be applied appropriately to the needs of the age”.

Here’s an image of the cathedral’s interior: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/DomHildesheim.jpg

Here is the official website in English about the project: domsanierung.de/en

My heart aches when I read such stuff, I don’t know about you. :crying: Removing art to “emphasise the essential”? Really? I can see a horribly sterile whitewashed interior with some faint accentuation in the sanctuary, void of images and statues. How is that going to draw people to God? I’d feel cold and all alone there!

This “The soul shall be able to relax”-stuff combined with the reduction of art and “focus” sounds like some strange temple for meditation, not a cathedral, to me.

Reducing the steps to the altar will be strange, too. As you can see in the image, it’s nicely elevated which bears both symbolical and practical significance. Symbolically, I see the message that God is above us and we look up to Him and Christ in the Sacrifice of calvary in the Mass. Practically, well, everyone can see what’s going on, isn’t that what people always say when they want the Mass not celebrated ad orientem?

Is there anything like this going on around your place? I feel the beautiful architecture and art that the Church has is being disregarded and messed with more and more.

 

[triumphguy]

That’s a lot of steps! Perhaps the Bishop is right.

 

[BobDanners]

Let’s be frank…I strongly feel that the 1970s are back again. With the restriction of the EF for the Franciscans and what I saw at WYD with the “Bishops dance” it seems we are migrating away from the “reform of the reform” that Benedict sought to implement.

Honestly I won’t be surprised if we see more of this.

 

[TimothyH]

Sounds like the Bishop is going for a more monastic feeling, less distractions, like the Cistercian monastaries I have visited. These really don’t need statues and murals and knick-knacks everywhere to remind you that you are in a sacred place.

-Tim-

 

[CutlerB]

Let’s be frank…I strongly feel that the 1970s are back again. With the restriction of the EF for the Franciscans and what I saw at WYD with the “Bishops dance” it seems we are migrating away from the “reform of the reform” that Benedict sought to implement.

Honestly I won’t be surprised if we see more of this.

In terms of architecture, I think they certainly are — and there really are people who prefer, or rather advocate and defend, such buildings over the rich tradition the Catholic Church has… that’s not to insult anyone, I just want to say I can’t understand how one can take such a stance.

While I think the EF restrictions for the FFIs is hyped and not what people make it out to be, WYD’s official liturgical programme was rather strange. Of course, one can’t say EF Mass on the beach, much less with 3 million in the congregation, but it was a bit bewildering.

The Bishops’ dance was somewhat funny, I admit. At least that’s proof the Church is alive, not all serious and incapable of having some fun. Some of the faces I saw, however, seemed to say: “What on earth am I doing here?”

Sometimes I imagine Pope Emeritus Benedict in Mater Ecclesiae like this :banghead: but just sort of tongue-in-cheek. To be quite honest… as long as Msgr. Marini keeps control over the Vatican’s sacristy and protocol, things aren’t lost. Pope Francis’ reported denial of abolishing Summorum Pontificum when certain cardinals demanded it gives me hope too.

 

[BobDanners]

In terms of architecture, I think they certainly are — and there really are people who prefer, or rather advocate and defend, such buildings over the rich tradition the Catholic Church has… that’s not to insult anyone, I just want to say I can’t understand how one can take such a stance.

While I think the EF restrictions for the FFIs is hyped and not what people make it out to be, WYD’s official liturgical programme was rather strange. Of course, one can’t say EF Mass on the beach, much less with 3 million in the congregation, but it was a bit bewildering.

The Bishops’ dance was somewhat funny, I admit. At least that’s proof the Church is alive, not all serious and incapable of having some fun. Some of the faces I saw, however, seemed to say: “What on earth am I doing here?”

Sometimes I imagine Pope Emeritus Benedict in Mater Ecclesiae like this :banghead: but just sort of tongue-in-cheek. To be quite honest… as long as Msgr. Marini keeps control over the Vatican’s sacristy and protocol, things aren’t lost. Pope Francis’ reported denial of abolishing Summorum Pontificum when certain cardinals demanded it gives me hope too.

I’m still on the fence with His Holiness about where the direction of the Church will be under his pontificate, at first I was confused, then excited and joyful, now I’m a tad sorrowful and worried; but nevertheless, he is the Vicar of Christ.

 

[TimothyH]

In terms of architecture, I think they certainly are — and there really are people who prefer, or rather advocate and defend, such buildings over the rich tradition the Catholic Church has… that’s not to insult anyone, I just want to say I can’t understand how one can take such a stance.

Understated, even austere buildings dedicated to prayer are part if the rich traditions of the Catholic Church, especially in the religious orders. For a large part Church history it has been the religious orders who defined spirituality, and everything that came with it.

The divide between secular diocicean parishes and religious orders is a modern phenomena. While it may not be best expressed in the architecture of the diocicean cathedral, poverty is an authentic expression of the life of Christ within the Church.

A simple church built without machines by the hands of men long since dead, to me, can be breathtaking. In our hyperactive and shallow western culture, I find simple, well lit and open spaces very refreshing.

-Tim-

 

[CutlerB]

I’m still on the fence with His Holiness about where the direction of the Church will be under his pontificate, at first I was confused, then excited and joyful, now I’m a tad sorrowful and worried; but nevertheless, he is the Vicar of Christ.

Indeed, indeed. Sometimes I wonder what to think, but understand quite well how you feel.

 

[BobDanners]

Indeed, indeed. Sometimes I wonder what to think, but understand quite well how you feel.

Whatever happens it’s Christ’s bride and rest assure He will never abandon it, no matter how bad it may get…not saying it is, but we have seen the last 40 years which has been very detrimental.

Sometimes though I still prepare for what Pope-Emeritus Benedict XVI said:

The church will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning.

• Pope Benedict XVI Faith and the Future

 

[CutlerB]

Understated, even austere buildings dedicated to prayer are part if the rich traditions of the Catholic Church, especially in the religious orders. For a large part Church history it has been the religious orders who defined spirituality, and everything that came with it.

The divide between secular diocicean parishes and religious orders is a modern phenomena. While it may not be best expressed in the architecture of the diocicean cathedral, poverty is an authentic expression of the life of Christ within the Church.

A simple church built without machines by the hands of men long since dead, to me, can be breathtaking. In our hyperactive and shallow western culture, I find simple, well lit and open spaces very refreshing.

-Tim-

I quite agree, but a cathedral isn’t a religious order’s church. Neither do I see a problem with a simple buildings built by men who devoted their every hour to building them, that’s part of the beauty. The problem I see is that by chucking out religious artwork that was there in the first place and turning the cathedral into something that sounds like an empty room with an altar on one end, devoid of its 1000 year old character, is that I can’t see people being drawn to God by it. All I mean to say is that by doing so, one let’s the secular zeitgeist decide what a church should look like. Missing images and things to remind you even more strongly that you are in a sacred place, in my opinion, does not contribute to building faith at all. I doubt more people will find God by walking into a wide, empty and cold room than into a space that carries memories, history and beauty. After all, who marvels at emptiness? People are overwhelmed when they enter St Peter’s (it snatched my breath away when I passed the doorstep), and no one can tell me people don’t like wonderful, cosy little parish churches.

Whatever happens it’s Christ’s bride and rest assure He will never abandon it, no matter how bad it may get…not saying it is, but we have seen the last 40 years which has been very detrimental.

Sometimes though I still prepare for what Pope-Emeritus Benedict XVI said:

The church will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning.

• Pope Benedict XVI Faith and the Future

True. It will take time for me to come to terms with what he said. If that ever comes to pass in my time, of course. I am by nature someone who clings to the past.

 

[QuestingKnight]

A church can be made to look glorious over 200 years with the pennies of the poor. It’s iconoclasm to then denude it. It’s one thing for monks to deliberately build an austere church to match their own poverty and simplicity. It’s quite another to take a hammer to something already sumptuous.

Some people just can’t stand beauty. All it takes is an individual with a bee in his bonnet and it’s gone. It’s hard to make good art. Very hard. But to destroy it? Just one man with a hammer and chisel is all you need.

I wonder when Catholics will wake up to the idea that in stripping down Her rites and Her churches, the Church is, in practice, stripping Catholicism out altogether? Then it will be easy for Moslems to move in; they won’t have much work to do ;the place will be bare. Local Catholics will have forgotten their faith and be easy pickings for anyone with a plausible line in religious reasoning.

 

[LovedMyAlydar]

That poor cathedral looks like those in England and Wales when the reformation came through and stripped all the Catholic churches of their artwork and statues, so that the congregation could focus on the minister and not be “distracted” by the frivolous artwork and “pagan” statues. What a shame, but I guess this fits in with the “new church” ideal.

I stick to my “over decorated” pagan churches any day. St. Josephat’s in Detroit…that is a thing a true beauty. How could you not feel close to the Lord in a beautiful church like that?

 

[CutlerB]

A church can be made to look glorious over 200 years with the pennies of the poor. It’s iconoclasm to then denude it. It’s one thing for monks to deliberately build an austere church to match their own poverty and simplicity. It’s quite another to take a hammer to something already sumptuous.

Some people just can’t stand beauty. All it takes is an individual with a bee in his bonnet and it’s gone. It’s hard to make good art. Very hard. But to destroy it? Just one man with a hammer and chisel is all you need.

I wonder when Catholics will wake up to the idea that in stripping down Her rites and Her churches, the Church is, in practice, stripping Catholicism out altogether? Then it will be easy for Moslems to move in; they won’t have much work to do ;the place will be bare. Local Catholics will have forgotten their faith and be easy pickings for anyone with a plausible line in religious reasoning.

I see it as – as much an impediment to ecumenical relations it may be – protestantising a church. All this modern talk of “spirituality”, what does that even mean? A Catholic church is a Catholic church and not a Protestant one, nor a room for meditation or a spa for the soul. It is the House of God, the place of prayer and worship, not simply of meeting and jolly company.

That poor cathedral looks like those in England and Wales when the reformation came through and stripped all the Catholic churches of their artwork and statues, so that the congregation could focus on the minister and not be “distracted” by the frivolous artwork and “pagan” statues. What a shame, but I guess this fits in with the “new church” ideal.

I stick to my “over decorated” pagan churches any day. St. Josephat’s in Detroit…that is a thing a true beauty. How could you not feel close to the Lord in a beautiful church like that?

 

[Catya]

My thoughts on religious art:

1. Artists are expressing their God-given talent and their works, especially those on spiritual themes need to be appreciated.
2. What better place to display such works than in a church, where they can be viewed by all? If it is sold off, it will likely go to some wealthy person’s private collection.
3. Art can draw the faithless and the fallen-away to the Church. I experienced this myself and have heard this from others. They come to view the art, but go away with much more. If the art is removed to a museum, it still might inspire people, but the effect is diminished when the art is no longer in a sacred space.
4. Much early religious art had an educational function, as many people where illiterate. While most people are literate today, many lack religious education, so such art is still relevant.
5. Often it is not the art itself, but the setting and/or frame that gives it an overly-luxurious feel. Better to leave the art in place and strip away the gilded gunk around it.

I do agree about the steps, however.

 

[Neofight]

Let’s be frank…I strongly feel that the 1970s are back again. With the restriction of the EF for the Franciscans and what I saw at WYD with the “Bishops dance” it seems we are migrating away from the “reform of the reform” that Benedict sought to implement.

Honestly I won’t be surprised if we see more of this.

Why does everything have to be turned into an opportunity for an EF apologetics session?

 

[CutlerB]

My thoughts on religious art:

1. Artists are expressing their God-given talent and their works, especially those on spiritual themes need to be appreciated.
2. What better place to display such works than in a church, where they can be viewed by all? If it is sold off, it will likely go to some wealthy person’s private collection.
3. Art can draw the faithless and the fallen-away to the Church. I experienced this myself and have heard this from others. They come to view the art, but go away with much more. If the art is removed to a museum, it still might inspire people, but the effect is diminished when the art is no longer in a sacred space.
4. Much early religious art had an educational function, as many people where illiterate. While most people are literate today, many lack religious education, so such art is still relevant.
5. Often it is not the art itself, but the setting and/or frame that gives it an overly-luxurious feel. Better to leave the art in place and strip away the gilded gunk around it.

I do agree about the steps, however.

1. Same here. I feel God used my love for great art, architecture and music to call me to His Church.
2. Well… if something is great, it should be given a befitting frame.

 

[BobDanners]

Why does everything have to be turned into an opportunity for an EF apologetics session?

Why must you make everything out to be an EF apologetics session?

Regardless, not saying this is an EF discussion; but this is the *Traditional Catholicism *thread…so you’re bound to bump into some EF discussion.

 

[Chatter163]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/DomHildesheim.jpg/582px-DomHildesheim.jpg

That’s a lot of steps! Perhaps the Bishop is right.

The artistic style of the cathedral is already very simple. Other than the steps, what else is there to be “de-emphasized”?

 

[Pulvis]

I am saddened, but not surprised, by this. Look at all of the Beautiful Cathedrals across America that have been wreck-o-vated. But anyone who does not understand what is happening, has happened or will happen to the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church need only read Pascendi Dominici Gregis and all will be made clear. This battle started immediately after the Resurrection, gained strength during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment period, blew wide open courtesy of the Reformation, and will continue until Christ Jesus returns. Hold fast.

 

[andrewstx]

I think art, icons and statues definteatly should have a high place in the church. But too much can be too much. If it looks like a garage sale is in order it’s too much IMHO.

And art is art, I don’t think that plaster or now “resin” plastic statues chosen from a catalog and the same as thousands of others is really art.

Someone mentioned this is traditional Catholic, but until the powers that be decide to open a section for non-traditionalist Catholics we all have to use this section.