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ShanPO
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So you’re saying Jesus as man is not God?
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Y
ynotzap
Guest
The question was "how does The Father in the spiritual generation of His Son Jesus, is beholding Himself. The answer is "By seeing Himself in Jesus, as one sees himself in a mirror, thus Jesus is the reflection of the Father, but is not the Father, but His Son, begottenEasy, the Father is spirit, Jesus is not.
https://matthewdg.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/deep-breath1.jpg
Jesus is a Divine Person, Pure Spirit in His divine nature, but a human being in His human nature. He is always united to the Father and the Holy Spirit in His divine nature Jesus is God-man The Word Incarnate
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
I don’t doubt the Holy Spirit dwells in Jesus. I reject that the Father does. Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Read Colossians.I think every Catholic know that The Holy Spirit dwells within us
ourladyoftherosary.org.au/blogs/deaks-diary-the-holy-spirit-dwells-within-us
I also think that every Catholic know that The Holy Spirit dwells in Jesus
It will all be clear to you, if you stop thinking that Jesus Christ is a spirit, that’s what confusing you.
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PNEUMA
Guest
No, Jesus is not a spirit, he is a human. It seems like you think, Jesus has to be a spirit in order to be one of the persons in the trinity ?The question was "how does The Father in the spiritual generation of His Son Jesus, is beholding Himself. The answer is "By seeing Himself in Jesus, as one sees himself in a mirror, thus Jesus is the reflection of the Father, but is not the Father, but His Son, begotten
Jesus is a Divine Person, Pure Spirit in His divine nature, but a human being in His human nature. He is always united to the Father and the Holy Spirit in His divine nature Jesus is God-man The Word Incarnate
youtube.com/watch?v=W8jQDunF8wc
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PNEUMA
Guest
Well, that’s one step forward. Was it the link that convinced you of the indwelling of the Spirit ?PNEUMA;13990942:
I also think that every Catholic know that The Holy Spirit dwells in JesusI think every Catholic know that The Holy Spirit dwells within us
ourladyoftherosary.org.au/blogs/deaks-diary-the-holy-spirit-dwells-within-us
It will all be clear to you, if you stop thinking that Jesus Christ is a spirit, that’s what confusing you.I don’t doubt the Holy Spirit dwells in Jesus. I reject that the Father does. Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Read Colossians.
A further step you could take, is to see that the Father dwells in Jesus, by The Holy Spirit
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
I believed it all along. Your theory that the Father dwelt in Jesus isn’t supported by Scripture.Well, that’s one step forward. Was it the link that convinced you of the indwelling of the Spirit ?
A further step you could take, is to see that the Father dwells in Jesus, by The Holy Spirit
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PNEUMA
Guest
John 14:8 is not Scripture ?I believed it all along. Your theory that the Father dwelt in Jesus isn’t supported by Scripture.
John 14:8 “Philip said to him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father”? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”
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PNEUMA
Guest
The whole point in John, is that God dwelt in the Temple in Jerusalem, but now he dwells in the new Temple Jesus Christ.
catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3501/jesus_christ_is_the_new_and_everlasting_temple.aspx
catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3501/jesus_christ_is_the_new_and_everlasting_temple.aspx
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patrick457
Guest
Okay. Still confused.
The spirit of God - the Logos / ‘Christ’ - descended on the human Jesus of Nazareth, thereby making Him (Son of) God. The body of Jesus was inhabited / possessed by said divine power; in other words, the Logos is clothed in a shell of flesh. Because God is impassible (cannot suffer), the divine spirit returned to Heaven during the Passion, leaving the shell of Jesus’ body to suffer and die on the cross.
Or
Jesus had a human body (sarx) and a ‘lower’ soul (psyche), but His human nous - His mind / will or ‘higher’ soul - was overtaken and displaced by the spirit of God. In other words, the divine spirit - the Logos - took the place of a human nous in Christ. Jesus’ human components are more like vehicles controlled by the indwelling Logos.
I hope not, but is either close or even remotely close to what you’re describing?
The spirit of God - the Logos / ‘Christ’ - descended on the human Jesus of Nazareth, thereby making Him (Son of) God. The body of Jesus was inhabited / possessed by said divine power; in other words, the Logos is clothed in a shell of flesh. Because God is impassible (cannot suffer), the divine spirit returned to Heaven during the Passion, leaving the shell of Jesus’ body to suffer and die on the cross.
Or
Jesus had a human body (sarx) and a ‘lower’ soul (psyche), but His human nous - His mind / will or ‘higher’ soul - was overtaken and displaced by the spirit of God. In other words, the divine spirit - the Logos - took the place of a human nous in Christ. Jesus’ human components are more like vehicles controlled by the indwelling Logos.
I hope not, but is either close or even remotely close to what you’re describing?
P
PNEUMA
Guest
This makes no sense, patrick457Okay. Still confused.
The spirit of God - the Logos / ‘Christ’ - descended on the human Jesus of Nazareth, thereby making Him (Son of) God. The body of Jesus was inhabited / possessed by said divine power; in other words, the Logos is clothed in a shell of flesh. Because God is impassible (cannot suffer), the divine spirit returned to Heaven during the Passion, leaving the shell of Jesus’ body to suffer and die on the cross.
Or
Jesus had a human body (sarx) and a ‘lower’ soul (psyche), but His human nous - His mind / will or ‘higher’ soul - was overtaken and displaced by the spirit of God. In other words, the divine spirit - the Logos - took the place of a human nous in Christ. Jesus’ human components are more like vehicles controlled by the indwelling Logos.
I hope not, but is either close or even remotely close to what you’re describing?
Do you believe the Son is flesh and blood human, not a spirit ?
Do you believe the Father is Spirit ?
Do you believe the Spirit dwells in in the Son ?
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patrick457
Guest
You just speak of “dwelling” and “flesh and blood” in contrast to “spirit,” yet never care to actually clarify what you’re referring to. That’s what confuses me and I think the other posters.This makes no sense, patrick457
Do you believe the Son is flesh and blood human, not a spirit ?
Do you believe the Father is Spirit ?
Do you believe the Spirit dwells in in the Son ?
Y
ynotzap
Guest
You do not understand what you are reading. I said that Jesus is God-man, In His divinity(God) He is pure spirit, for God is Pure Spirit. If I follow your convictions Jesus ceases being God because of His human nature, and that is Heresy. This is how division enters the Church, let Church Doctrine be your guide, do not impose your mind over those who are given authority of leadership. This is why Jesus gave them that authority. Look up the Doctrine of the Trinity. It has already been given to you and made explicit by some posters. They quoted Doctrine. If you find some rejection of some of your convictions, now you know why, so don’t be surprised. It is your choice to accept, or reject, but this is Christian Catholicism. How can Jesus be The Son of God, one of the Persons of the Blessed Trinity, and not be Spirit, God is Pure Spirit Jesus has to be Pure Spirit to be One of the Person of the blessed Trinity, in HIS DIVINE NATURE,(He has two natures, human and divine,) if you say He isn’t, then you are saying He is just human and that is wrong.No, Jesus is not a spirit, he is a human. It seems like you think, Jesus has to be a spirit in order to be one of the persons in the trinity ?
youtube.com/watch?v=W8jQDunF8wc
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PNEUMA
Guest
Did you bother to look at the video ? It’s Pope Francis that says “Jesus is not a spirit”PNEUMA;13992323:
You do not understand what you are reading. I said that Jesus is God-man, In His divinity(God) He is pure spirit, for God is Pure Spirit. If I follow your convictions Jesus ceases being God because of His human nature, and that is Heresy. This is how division enters the Church, let Church Doctrine be your guide, do not impose your mind over those who are given authority of leadership. This is why Jesus gave them that authority. Look up the Doctrine of the Trinity. It has already been given to you and made explicit by some posters. They quoted Doctrine. If you find some rejection of some of your convictions, now you know why, so don’t be surprised. It is your choice to accept, or reject, but this is Christian Catholicism.** How can Jesus be The Son of God, one of the Persons of the Blessed Trinity, and not be Spirit**, God is Pure Spirit Jesus has to be Pure Spirit to be One of the Person of the blessed Trinity, in HIS DIVINE NATURE,(He has two natures, human and divine,) if you say He isn’t, then you are saying He is just human and that is wrong.No, Jesus is not a spirit, he is a human. It seems like you think, Jesus has to be a spirit in order to be one of the persons in the trinity ?
youtube.com/watch?v=W8jQDunF8wc
One of the three persons is a human.
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PNEUMA
Guest
No, I think it’s because you think the Son is a spirit.You just speak of “dwelling” and “flesh and blood” in contrast to “spirit,” yet never care to actually clarify what you’re referring to. That’s what confuses me and I think the other posters.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 648 “The Father’s power “raised up” Christ his Son and by doing so perfectly introduced his Son’s humanity, including his body, into the Trinity.”
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
The second Person of the Trinity is spirit incarnate in the person of Jesus.No, I think it’s because you think the Son is a spirit.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 648 “The Father’s power “raised up” Christ his Son and by doing so perfectly introduced his Son’s humanity, including his body, into the Trinity.”
I guess you’re one of those people who takes the verse, “the Spirit gives life but the flesh is to no avail out of context.”
J
JB_Brother_4446
Guest
It is a passage you took out of context. Compare this to Paul’s description of Jesus in Colossians.John 14:8 is not Scripture ?
John 14:8 "Philip said to him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father”? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works."
Y
ynotzap
Guest
Jesus in not a spirit in His human nature, , but HE IS PURE SPIRIT IN HIS DIVINE NATURE, He is both human and divine at one time, not at separate times Pope Francis is right when referring to the humanity of Jesus, try very hard to understand that. One of the three persons is not a human person, but a divine person with human nature, and that is Jesus. There are three divine persons in the Trinity, this does not include one human person. The fact that Jesus is human, does not mean that He is a human person, He is still a divine person with human nature it is called the Hypostatic Union, this is a mystery of faith. I’m having trouble in trying to make you understand, but if I tried to explain how the theologian arrived to this conclusion with the approval of the Church, there is no doubt I would really confuse you so I won’t attempt itDid you bother to look at the video ? It’s Pope Francis that says “Jesus is not a spirit”
One of the three persons is a human.
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PNEUMA
Guest
In John 6:63 Jesus clearly says that the words of his mouth are Spirit and life. Which is exactly the same as John 1:1-4 says about the word, that word is God and life.PNEUMA;13993216:
*“The Father’s power “raised up” Christ his Son and by doing so perfectly introduced his Son’s humanity, including his body, into the Trinity.”*The second Person of the Trinity is spirit incarnate in the person of Jesus.No, I think it’s because you think the Son is a spirit.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 648
I guess you’re one of those people who takes the verse, “the Spirit gives life but the flesh is to no avail out of context.”
John 6:63 “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”
And there is clearly a human in the Trinity.
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PNEUMA
Guest
The Divine Spirit is in (dwells in) the human Jesus ChristJesus in not a spirit in His human nature, , but HE IS PURE SPIRIT IN HIS DIVINE NATURE, He is both human and divine at one time, not at separate times Pope Francis is right when referring to the humanity of Jesus, try very hard to understand that. One of the three persons is not a human person, but a divine person with human nature, and that is Jesus. There are three divine persons in the Trinity, this does not include one human person. The fact that Jesus is human, does not mean that He is a human person, He is still a divine person with human nature it is called the Hypostatic Union, this is a mystery of faith. I’m having trouble in trying to make you understand, but if I tried to explain how the theologian arrived to this conclusion with the approval of the Church, there is no doubt I would really confuse you so I won’t attempt it
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PNEUMA
Guest
Colossians 1:3 "We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"PNEUMA;13992380:
"Philip said to him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father”? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works."It is a passage you took out of context. Compare this to Paul’s description of Jesus in Colossians.John 14:8 is not Scripture ?
John 14:8
John 20:28 “Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!””
Lord = Jesus Christ
God = the Father
John 8:16 “my judgement is valid; for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me. In your law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is valid”
John 8:29 “he who sent me is with me”
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