Historical accuracy of the gospel of John

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PNEUMA said:
It’s not too vague for, I perfectly understand what kind of human I am supposed to be.
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I’m sorry, but I’m still not understanding what you’re saying here. Are you saying that there was a time in Jesus’ life when he wasn’t God? Your use of the word spirit is a bit tricky. A few more questions, one that has been asked several times.

You said you came to your conclusion (whatever that may be) by attending Catholic Mass, are you Catholic and if not, which denomination (if any) do you claim?

Do you believe in the Triune God as has been described here numerous times?

I think if you could answer these questions it might help us understand where you’re coming from.
 
JB_Brother_4446 said:
PNEUMA;13993887:
No, Thomas is here shown to be the only one who understands. And could as well be the beloved disciple.
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All the others got it. Peter got it. Nathanael got it. Seriously, why must one go by your logic to get it, when it clearly borders on heresy? There is also a stronger case for John being the beloved disciple. Is this one of your fringe theories?
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No, only Thomas saw both the Father and the Son in Jesus Christ, that’s why he said, my Lord and my God. He has a very special place in the gospel.
 
ynotzap said:
PNEUMA;13993879:
ynotzap;13993771:
PNEUMA;13993574:
The Divine Spirit is in (dwells in) the human Jesus Christ
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Amen.This is what I have been saying the whole time. 🤷

This doesn’t of course make Jesus Christ a spirit, he is a human of flesh and blood.In His human nature, but don’t forget that Jesus is God, and God is Pure Spirit in Jesus’ divine nature, you must make this distinction His divinity is united to His humanity, and you must view each nature individually yet united, Jesus is God-man So when you speak of Jesus, your are speaking of the human Jesus, and of the divine Jesus, who is the Son of God, co-equal with the Father, and the Holy Spirit When speaking of Jesus you must necessarily address both natures, they are united in Him, you can not ignore one or the other.
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No, Jesus is not a spirit, he is a human. It seems like you think, Jesus has to be a spirit in order to be one of the persons in the trinity ?

youtube.com/watch?v=W8jQDunF8wc
 
tweedlealice said:
Salutations.
John was an eyewitness. He was the beloved Apostle. Jesus may have said things to John, He didn’t share with others. Also, John may have picked out things that meant more to the message he felt Jesus wanted to convey.
If 5 people see a car accident there will be 5 different reports of the accident. The three evangelists that walked with Jesus saw things they thought were important. Luke wrote from hearsay. Still there are similarities.
So, we are all to let the words of Jesus bathe over us in faith.
Looking for the truth in complexity, one can lose the simplicity of Christ’s love for us.
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
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I think the writer of the gospel, writes as he writes, because the Holy Spirit dwells in him

ourladyoftherosary.org.au/blogs/deaks-diary-the-holy-spirit-dwells-within-us
 
ShanPO said:
I’m sorry, but I’m still not understanding what you’re saying here. Are you saying that there was a time in Jesus’ life when he wasn’t God? Your use of the word spirit is a bit tricky. A few more questions, one that has been asked several times.

You said you came to your conclusion (whatever that may be) by attending Catholic Mass, are you Catholic and if not, which denomination (if any) do you claim?

Do you believe in the Triune God as has been described here numerous times?

I think if you could answer these questions it might help us understand where you’re coming from.
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(whatever that may be) = That Jesus is a flesh and blood human that we eat in the holy Catholic Mass, and not a spirit. Completely in accordance with what Pope Francis of the Catholic church says.
 
PNEUMA said:
No, only Thomas saw both the Father and the Son in Jesus Christ, that’s why he said, my Lord and my God. He has a very special place in the gospel.
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He was the one who doubted His Resurrection. The Resurrection is the biggest proof that Jesus is God. If you participate in the Mass, how can you pray the words of the Eucharistic Prayer I when it calls Mary, “mother of our God and Lord, Jesus Christ?” with a clear conscience?
 
JB_Brother_4446 said:
He was the one who doubted His Resurrection. The Resurrection is the biggest proof that Jesus is God. If you participate in the Mass, how can you pray the words of the Eucharistic Prayer I when it calls Mary, “mother of our God and Lord, Jesus Christ?” with a clear conscience?
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No, he doubted the others had seen the Lord. As the beloved disciple he knew about the empty tomb. We are not discussing whether Jesus is God, but whether Jesus is spirit, which he is not.
 
PNEUMA said:
(whatever that may be) = That Jesus is a flesh and blood human that we eat in the holy Catholic Mass, and not a spirit. Completely in accordance with what Pope Francis of the Catholic church says.
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No one here is saying Jesus is a spirit, and all of us agree that he is 100% human. I think where we’re getting mixed up is your language.

You say that the Father is the “Spirit of Jesus” right?

You missed the other questions I asked as well.

Are you Catholic?

Do you believe in a Triune God?
 
ShanPO said:
No one here is saying Jesus is a spirit, and all of us agree that he is 100% human. I think where we’re getting mixed up is your language.

You say that the Father is the “Spirit of Jesus” right?

You missed the other questions I asked as well.

Are you Catholic?

Do you believe in a Triune God?
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Catechism of the Catholic Church 648* “The Father’s power “raised up” Christ his Son and by doing so perfectly introduced his Son’s humanity, including his body, into the Trinity.”
*
 
PNEUMA said:
Catechism of the Catholic Church 648* “The Father’s power “raised up” Christ his Son and by doing so perfectly introduced his Son’s humanity, including his body, into the Trinity.”
*
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Howzabout you just answer the questions I ask about YOUR beliefs?
 
PNEUMA said:
Jesus is a flesh and blood human. The spirit idea is protestant and gnostic.
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What is Gnostic is you denying His divinity! Why do you think we call Mary the Mother of God? “The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us!” How can you say the Angelus with a clear conscience when YOU don’t believe Jesus is God? :mad:
 
ShanPO said:
PNEUMA;13996347 said:
Catechism of the Catholic Church 648
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  • “The Father’s power “raised up” Christ his Son and by doing so perfectly introduced his Son’s humanity, including his body, into the Trinity.”
Howzabout you just answer the questions I ask about YOUR beliefs?
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This is what I believe, that there is a human in the Trinity.
 
JB_Brother_4446 said:
What is Gnostic is you denying His divinity! Why do you think we call Mary the Mother of God? “The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us!” How can you say the Angelus with a clear conscience when YOU don’t believe Jesus is God? :mad:
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What I say, is that Jesus is not a spirit ! The Divine Spirit is in (dwells in) him. The gnostics and protestants believe he is a spirit, that the flesh and blood is only symbolic. But we Catholics know that the word (spirit) of Christ, makes the flesh and blood, become the living Christ (the living bread)

 
PNEUMA said:
What I say, is that Jesus is not a spirit ! The Divine Spirit is in (dwells in) him. The gnostics and protestants believe he is a spirit, that the flesh and blood is only symbolic. But we Catholics know that the word (spirit) of Christ, makes the flesh and blood, become the living Christ (the living bread)

http://oi64.tinypic.com/tag111.jpg
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Jesus is not spirit in His human nature, but flesh and blood. He is Spirit, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity in His divine nature. I am confident the Pope will agree. All three Persons are united in His Divine Nature the two natures exist together He is not a human person, but a Divine Person with human nature. Around and around we go!
 
ynotzap said:
Jesus is not spirit in His human nature, but flesh and blood. He is Spirit, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity in His divine nature. I am confident the Pope will agree. All three Persons are united in His Divine Nature the two natures exist together He is not a human person, but a Divine Person with human nature. Around and around we go!
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One person (hypostasis), two distinct natures (physeis) united in “an unspeakable, inconceivable manner,” two wills that correspond to those two natures.

In His humanity, yes, Jesus is a flesh-and-blood human. But in His divinity, He is also the Logos of God. It is not an either-or, but a both-and.

In the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, there’s this rather nice prayer that describes Jesus in His death: “in the grave bodily; in Hades with the soul; in Paradise with the thief; on the throne with the Father and the Spirit.” He was in all these places, it is said, because He is “boundless” and “fill all things.”
 
PNEUMA said:
What I say, is that Jesus is not a spirit ! The Divine Spirit is in (dwells in) him. The gnostics and protestants believe he is a spirit, that the flesh and blood is only symbolic. But we Catholics know that the word (spirit) of Christ, makes the flesh and blood, become the living Christ (the living bread)

http://oi64.tinypic.com/tag111.jpg
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Protestants believe Jesus is human.
 
ynotzap said:
Jesus is not spirit in His human nature, but flesh and blood. He is Spirit, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity in His divine nature. I am confident the Pope will agree. All three Persons are united in His Divine Nature the two natures exist together He is not a human person, but a Divine Person with human nature. Around and around we go!
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I think it is you that’s slowly coming around.

The Divine Spirit is in (dwells in) the human Jesus Christ.
 
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