Historical and theological Islam

[paarsurrey]

I even invite you to discuss the issue of the Banu Quaresh who were slaughtered after they had surrendered.

Hi

The truthful Prophet Muhammad was peaceful, yet you continue accusing that he was not peaceful. He killed not a soul in Mecca, upto the age of 53 that is history. When due to the atrocities of Meccans he immigrated to Medina, even then they did not leave him alone. He had no military training or warfare techniques, yet when GodAllahYHWH allowed/commanded him to repulse the aggressors, he did that valiantly. I think you are not fair in accusing him. I don’t mind that, you may do whatever like heart and soul.

You say he (Muhammad) himself, in his own person, slaughtered many a person; that is your accusation. Was there any person among them who was Catholic/Orthodox, and he slaoughtered that person? Just name who were they, with solid and creditable references/proofs. I think you don’t have any names of Catholics/Orthodox, whom he slaughtered.

Just misconceptions you have. No compulsion

Thanks

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi

The truthful Prophet Muhammad was peaceful, yet you continue accusing that he was not peaceful. He killed not a soul in Mecca, upto the age of 53 that is history. When due to the atrocities of Meccans he immigrated to Medina, even then they did not leave him alone. He had no military training or warfare techniques, yet when GodAllahYHWH allowed/commanded him to repulse the aggressors, he did that valiantly. I think you are not fair in accusing him. I don’t mind that, you may do whatever like heart and soul.

You say he (Muhammad) himself, in his own person, slaughtered many a person; that is your accusation. Was there any person among them who was Catholic/Orthodox, and he slaoughtered that person? Just name who were they, with solid and creditable references/proofs. I think you don’t have any names of Catholics/Orthodox, whom he slaughtered.

Just misconceptions you have. No compulsion

Thanks

What do names, or the fact they are christian have to do with it? Bottom line is Muhammad slaughtered people, Montalban has backed this up numerous times in the past.

Now, till this day, you have avoided answering the following answer…
If Muhammad was peaceful for the first 53 years, was he still peaceful for the remainder of his life?

 

[Montalban]

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID={6DC07BEB-92CE-4500-8434-8204CA9522D4}

What do names, or the fact they are christian have to do with it? Bottom line is Muhammad slaughtered people, Montalban has backed this up numerous times in the past.

Now, till this day, you have avoided answering the following answer…
If Muhammad was peaceful for the first 53 years, was he still peaceful for the remainder of his life?

Ta. I’ve read Moslem sites that seek to justify this action by saying that they had ‘betrayed’ Muhammed.

What they did was that they sat out a battle - having given 100% support for Muhammed in the past they realised he was getting too powerful so they didn’t take part. Whether this act of non-action was itself a ‘betrayal’ is not really an issue here.

Muhammed’s followers laid seige to their camp. They surrendered and all the adult males were slaughtered, the females and children made slaves to Muhammed and his followers - Muhammed took one woman as his wife - imagine her horror of going to Muhammed’s bed after seeing all her men-folk slaughtered!

Incidentally, I may be using an old form of spelling, because most sites seem to call them Banu Qurayza

Incidentally some Moslem apologists sites offer an article, written in 1976 under the banner “NEW LIGHT ON THE STORY OF BANU QURAYZA”. That’s 30 years new!

 

[dolphinlove]

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID={6DC07BEB-92CE-4500-8434-8204CA9522D4}

Ta. I’ve read Moslem sites that seek to justify this action by saying that they had ‘betrayed’ Muhammed.

What they did was that they sat out a battle - having given 100% support for Muhammed in the past they realised he was getting too powerful so they didn’t take part. Whether this act of non-action was itself a ‘betrayal’ is not really an issue here.

Muhammed’s followers laid seige to their camp. They surrendered and all the adult males were slaughtered, the females and children made slaves to Muhammed and his followers - Muhammed took one woman as his wife - imagine her horror of going to Muhammed’s bed after seeing all her men-folk slaughtered!

Incidentally, I may be using an old form of spelling, because most sites seem to call them Banu Qurayza

Incidentally some Moslem apologists sites offer an article, written in 1976 under the banner “NEW LIGHT ON THE STORY OF BANU QURAYZA”. That’s 30 years new!

The more im learning, the more it does sicken me.
I only started to learn about Islam, and what ive found so far has shocked me quite a bit. I must say, i have learnt a lot by what is posted here!

 

[Montalban]

The more im learning, the more it does sicken me.
I only started to learn about Islam, and what ive found so far has shocked me quite a bit. I must say, i have learnt a lot by what is posted here!

I almost became one.

If you’re interested in a ‘lighter’ or ‘softer’ side of Islam - and a film that ceratinly sucked me in - there’s The Message which Channel 9 once showed very late at night as Mohammed, Messenger of God. It claims approval of a leading university in Egypt.

It shows the Ethiopians sheltering some Moslems - when they were being persecuted. And shows Muhammed leading his armies into war - although all perfectly justified

No mention of Aisha, or the slaughter of the PoWs

 

[dolphinlove]

I almost became one.

If you’re interested in a ‘lighter’ or ‘softer’ side of Islam - and a film that ceratinly sucked me in - there’s The Message which Channel 9 once showed very late at night as Mohammed, Messenger of God. It claims approval of a leading university in Egypt.

It shows the Ethiopians sheltering some Moslems - when they were being persecuted. And shows Muhammed leading his armies into war - although all perfectly justified

No mention of Aisha, or the slaughter of the PoWs

Yes, i think i remember that show been brought up in one of the threads here.
Well, i bet your greatful Jesus saved you from making a mistake like that one!

 

[paarsurrey]

STORY OF BANU QURAYZA

Hi

Banu Quraiza were Jews, they had a Treaty with the truthful Prophet Muhammad Khatamun Nabiyyeen, not to support the Meccans if they attcked Medina. They broke the treaty and sided with the Meccan unbelievers when they attacked Medina. On their own choice they were treated as they themselves treated the Amalekites :

You didn’t know God (of the bible) well enough:

1 Samuel 15: 1-3
Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. This is what the Lord Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’"

Muslims , however, spared children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys from the above passage emboldened and underlined by me.

They ,the Jews of Banu Quraiza, were treated as per the clear teachings of their OTBible on their own choice, with no fault of Muhammad the Prince of Peace.

Thanks

 

[fatma]

The more im learning, the more it does sicken me.
I only started to learn about Islam, and what ive found so far has shocked me quite a bit. I must say, i have learnt a lot by what is posted here!

You are not learning dolphinlove, just getting propagandised and filling your heart with hate. Spread the love!

I almost became one.

hence your crusade against islam! maybe you are redirecting your own self loathing towards Islam.

best wishes to you both
and Salam Alaykum, i learnt that from muslims

 

[inJESUS]

That depends… did you consider Saddam Hussain a Baathist or a Muslim?

i don’t know much of him but i think his behavior was that of dictator. I do not think he was acting in religious terms, unlike Ben Laden.

 

[inJESUS]

i’d like to tackle another point, related to violence as well,.we can say it is one of the roots of violence called hatred. To all those who read the Quran, be it Christians or Muslims or Jews, what feeling do you get about Jews and Christians after reading it? start with the very first passage called The Opening, or Al-Fatiha.
When the passage is supposed to be an intimate prayer between a human and his God, an eternal prayer written in the Lawh al Mahfouz, we start to see Muhammad’s hatred to Jews and Christians. Throughout the Quran they are called unbelievers, hated by God, doomed to hell, hypocrites, liars. How will one react confronted with so much hatred in nearly every sura?

 

[paarsurrey]

i’d like to tackle another point, related to violence as well,.we can say it is one of the roots of violence called hatred. To all those who read the Quran, be it Christians or Muslims or Jews, what feeling do you get about Jews and Christians after reading it? start with the very first passage called The Opening, or Al-Fatiha.

Hi

What words in Surah Al-Fatiha you don’t like:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 1: Al-Fatihah

[1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
[1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
[1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6] Guide us in the right path –
[1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.

I think it is all for Universal brotherhood of humanity, Jews,Christians,Buddhists, Hindus etc ,etc all included.

Thanks

 

[Montalban]

hence your crusade against islam! maybe you are redirecting your own self loathing towards Islam.

Thanks for the analysis. Another post that doesn’t deal with the issues.

That’s very Islamic of you; projection.

 

[Montalban]

Well, i bet your greatful Jesus saved you from making a mistake like that one!

I am in deed (and especially for leading me to his church )

It gave me a chance, anyway, to know something about Islam.

I would recommend A Bostom’s book *Legacy of Jihad *as a source book - not to read cover-to-cover - it’s more of a reference.

 

[fatma]

Thanks for the analysis. Another post that doesn’t deal with the issues.

That’s very Islamic of you; projection.

i’m willing to help u some more if u like - so we can exorcise your destructive obsession. :getholy:

 

[fatma]

http:///Users/margaretking/Desktop/9780330423809ib8.jpg

 

[Verisimilitude]

Yes I deny it. Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf was killed because he went to another tribe and incited them to take arms against the Muslims, and thus he was at war with the Muslims.

What of Abu Rafi’, Abu Sufyan, al-Aswad, or Khalid b. Sufyan?

It’s not murder, and if it is, then please answer my previous question, is any killing during war considered murder? Because if it is, then we all have a lot of blood on our hands.

These were offensive attacks unless you conclude Mohamed/Muslims were in a state of war since his call, and if you say they were, then the state of war exisits with Moslems today. Is that the case you are making?

Define the war and the reason for waging it. WW1, WW2, American Civil War…were not fought for overt religious/Christian reasons and the killing done during those wars have no bearing on your question of being murder or not. God has sanctioned very few battles and wars- limited I think to the Jews aquisition of Canaan nearly 3000 years ago. Allah through Mohamed santioned every battle making all fighting allah’s Cause.

I don’t deny that Islam allows fighting to remove oppression or in defense. But if we’re going to call this murder, then lets be fair and start calling America murderers, UK murderers, etc, etc.

What you do deny is how Moslems were oppressed after he ran away to Medina, and once Mekka was taken who they were being defensive against. Very few battles are recorded as being defensive. What is the Cause of allah? It is oft repeated in the Quran…what is your reading of it?

 

[inJESUS]

i’d like to tackle another point, related to violence as well,.we can say it is one of the roots of violence called hatred. To all those who read the Quran, be it Christians or Muslims or Jews, what feeling do you get about Jews and Christians after reading it? start with the very first passage called The Opening, or Al-Fatiha.
When the passage is supposed to be an intimate prayer between a human and his God, we start to see Muhammad’s hatred to Jews and Christians. Throughout the Quran they are called unbelievers, hated by God, doomed to hell, hypocrites, liars. How will one react confronted with so much hatred in nearly every sura? how can one feel at peace with others when his book says : God’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth ?

 

[inJESUS]

Hi

What words in Surah Al-Fatiha you don’t like:

I think it is all for Universal brotherhood of humanity, Jews,Christians,Buddhists, Hindus etc ,etc all included.

what is universal is this one :

Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,

your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven.

Give us today our daily bread;

and forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors;

and do not subject us to the final test, but deliver us from the evil one.

However, in the prayer of Muhammad, we read:

Direct us in the right way; in the way of those to whom Thou hast been gracious, on whom there is no wrath, and who go not astray.

“incurred they displeasure” is rather a “softened” , misleading translation because Muhammad is talking of Allah’s wrath on the Jews.

Hence in what is supposed to be a prayer, we have the Jews whose God’s wrath is on them, and the Christians we are astray. Later we have:

God’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (both Christians and Jews).

 

[paarsurrey]

Direct us in the right way; in the way of those to whom Thou hast been gracious, on whom there is no wrath, and who go not astray.
“incurred they displeasure” is rather a “softened” , misleading translation because Muhammad is talking of Allah’s wrath on the Jews.
Hence in what is supposed to be a prayer, we have the Jews whose God’s wrath is on them, and the Christians we are astray. Later we have:
God’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (both Christians and Jews).

Hi

"Direct us in the right way" has just been explained away in the next sentences.
If Jews tried to kill Jesus on Cross (though Jesus was saved by GodAllahYHWH being killed on Cross, and he died a natural and peaceful death in India), and Jews earned wrath of GodAllahYHWH for their miscievious doings; should’t the Muslims refrain from it.

I think now you understand it.
Jesus had to come again(symbolically) and if the Muslims refrain from putting him on the Cross unlike the Jews did, that is a good prayer, I think. Isn’t it? Surely it is.

Surah Al-Fatiha is a miraculous prayer. It is a summary of Quran and a key to it as also the best of the prayers.

Thanks

 

[Abu_Ismail]

These were offensive attacks unless you conclude Mohamed/Muslims were in a state of war since his call, and if you say they were, then the state of war exisits with Moslems today. Is that the case you are making?

No it’s not the case I’m making. You just made that up.

Define the war and the reason for waging it. WW1, WW2, American Civil War…were not fought for overt religious/Christian reasons and the killing done during those wars have no bearing on your question of being murder or not. God has sanctioned very few battles and wars- limited I think to the Jews aquisition of Canaan nearly 3000 years ago. Allah through Mohamed santioned every battle making all fighting allah’s Cause.

If I may remind you, Muhammad pbuh and his followers were persecuted to the point where they fled Mecca for Medina, and it was the Quraysh who pursued them and were the ones who instigated attacks on the Muslims in an effort to destroy them - that is why they were at war.

Yes, Allah sanctions wars where there is oppression and where self-defense is necessary.

What you do deny is how Moslems were oppressed after he ran away to Medina, and once Mekka was taken who they were being defensive against. Very few battles are recorded as being defensive. What is the Cause of allah? It is oft repeated in the Quran…what is your reading of it?

I suggest you read my posts in the Jihad thread and listen to the lectures I posted to understand what it means, and I have shown with referenced evidence that the reasons were to remove the oppression that existed at the time, and they preferred the Muslims rule of justice over the oppression they were experiencing under their current rulers.