Historical Jesus didn't create a new religion!

[andersbranderud]

This post we about the historical Jesus . who was he? Did he or his followers create a new religion? According to historical scholarship [sources: see at the bottom of this post] he practised what corresponds to today’s Orthodox Judaism all his life. His followers were called Netzarim – that is Hebrew [it means offshoot (of a olive tree)] and is a name in the Jewish Bible that is used for Messiah.

During the first century those who practised Judaism were very devoted their religion. Just like King David and all other Jews throughout history they practised Torah (Instruction) – the Instructions of the Creator – with joy! The most prominent university professors in this field Prof. Elisha Qimron , author of the most authoritative treatise on 4Q MMT, demonstrates that all three of the major sects of first century Judaism followed both written and oral Torah.

Louis Feldman (”The Omnipresence of the G*od-Fearers,” Biblical Archaeology Review, 1986.09-10, p. 45, 58ff) observes: “the Jews were apparently extraordinarily successful in winning converts”
Year 7 B.C.E Ribi Yehoshua were born in Bethlehem. His father name was Yoseiph and his mothers name was Miryam. His parents were practising Jews.

According to world-recognized authorities in this area Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee (a Torah-practising Jewish group - who according to 4Q MMT practised both written and oral Torah). As the earliest church historians, most eminent modern university historians, our web site (The only authentic Netzarim - i.e. in Ra’anana in Israel led by Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq) and our Khavruta (Distance Learning) texts confirm, the original teachings of Ribi Yehoshua were not only accepted by most of the Pharisaic Jewish community, he had hoards of Jewish students.

He took care of sick and made it popular among the masses to pray in what corresponds to today’s Orthodox synagogues. The genealogically non-priest, Hellenist “Wicked Priest” Temple-Sadducees felt that their power was threaten by Ribi Yehoshua. They decided to get him crucified by the Romans. The Romans convicted and crucified Ribi Yehoshua year 30 C.E.

Ribi Yehoshua’s followers Netzarim were expelled from Jerusalem 135 C.E: together with all other Jews. The first Christian bishop Markos replaced the fifteenth leader of Netzarim Yehudah, ha-Tzadiq. This Christian bishop didn’t have permission to do this. What the Paul the apostate and later the founder of Christianity did was to take some concepts that Ribi Yehoshua had taught; they Hellenized the concepts and included them in the religion which they practiced – Hellenism – the religion of the Greeks. (Sources: See Ecclesiastical History (EH IV.v.1-4; EH V.xii.1) )

Anyone educated in this field knows that the only sect of Judaism that had rabbis was the Pharisee and even the Christian NT described him as a rabbi. Parkes, Bagatti, Wilson, Charlesworth; all world-recognized authorities in this area leave no doubt that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee, of the school of Hileil - who was also Pharisee. There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in “synagogues”; which were a strictly Pharisee institution.

Following the teachings of the Judaic Mâshiakh (Messiah) Ribi Yehoshua – that is doing one’s utmost to practice the 613 commandments of Torah - also brings the inner joy, purpose and happiness of working intimately with him to bring about, and participate in, the Messianic era, enjoying a higher level of communion with ha-Sheim - the Creator - as party to Yirmeyâhu’s (Jeremiah’s) New Covenant.

If you want to learn about the Historical Ribi Yehoshua, whom Orthodox Jews can live with (witness the Netzarim Jews in Raanana, Israel, members in good standing in an Orthodox synagogue), you must start with books like How Jesus Became Christian by Prof. Barrie Wilson (most bookstores) and Who Are The Netzarim? (publ. Schueller House) by Israeli Orthodox Jew, Paqid Yirmeyahu Ben-David.

Finding the historical Jew, who was a Pharisee Ribi and following him brings you into Torah, which gives you a rich and meaningful life here on earth and great rewards in life after death (“heaven”)!

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav of Netzarim (The only authentic Netzarim - i.e. in Ra’anana in Israel led by Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq) who are follower of Ribi Yehoshua - Messiah - in Orthodox Judaism

 

[Rawb]

I love how arrogant we are, in the 21st century, to consistently determine that we know more about people who lived ‘back then’ than people who actually did live ‘back then’.

Yes, this must be it. The entire world has been waiting for this to finally see the Historical Jesus. Every other scholarship and belief on the man for the past 2,000 years is clearly false and probably a conspiracy to prevent us from seeing the truth.

 

[puzzleannie]

yes, he did, in his own words from Matthew 16
Jesus said to him in reply,
“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah.
For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
And so I say to you, you are Peter,
and upon this rock I will build my church,
and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
Jesus said to him in reply,
“

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I love how arrogant we are, in the 21st century, to consistently determine that we know more about people who lived ‘back then’ than people who actually did live ‘back then’.

Yes, this must be it. The entire world has been waiting for this to finally see the Historical Jesus. Every other scholarship and belief on the man for the past 2,000 years is clearly false and probably a conspiracy to prevent us from seeing the truth.

Our DRE once explained that to me. We understand it better because of evolution. Our brains have evolved beyond theirs. I fear the rest of her teaching was of the same quality.

 

[chris_molter]

This makes the assumption that the Catholic faith is a “new religion” and not the continuation/completion of an “old religion”

 

[bpbasilphx]

C. S. Lewis, through the mouth of Screwtape, said that every “historical Jesus” is totally UNhistorical.

And Albert Schweitzer said that people peering down the well of history for the historical Jesus see reflected back their own faces.

 

[zografou]

Welcome to the forum Andersbranderud! I see this is your first post and your first day joining.

How kind of you to share your views and historical perspective.

Would it surprise you that those who understand in fullness would agree, that our Lord did not come to establish a new religion.
Religion is man’s attempt to systemize beliefs and practices according to their own understanding, ways and cultural experience.

Acknowledging, accepting and belonging to religion does not equate having faith in the One True God and Creater of all, nor His worship in all fullness and perfection.

It is good that your sect accepts Our Lord and Savior The Christ Jesus as The Messiah fortold of in Holy Scripture;
Who having fullfilled the prophecies of old concerning The Messiah, The Lord Himself established *His *New Covenant.

Yet, it is apparent by your post, that your sect is a remnant of those who accept some but not all that was made manifest by The Lord; whose leaders were not those who *were * the chosen followers disciples and apostles of The Lord.
And accordingly, your historical references fall short of perfection and in understanding.

Who was He? Let us also see who He was not.
-He was *not *the son of Joseph.
He IS The Son of the Living God.
And this is not a legend or story or fabrication made up by man, but first revealed and fortold in the very Torah and announced by the Archangel of the Lord, Gabriel.
There is no question whom I shall and do believe.
I am also certain the day will come, when this will be understood by all.

He was *not *merely a man or historical figure who taught Torah.
He IS The Word of God. He IS The Word of God incarnate.

He was *not *merely a man or historical figure who cared for the sick.
He IS the only begotten Son of God, through Whom all things were made. Who indeed cured the sick, raised the dead and through His death AND ressurection, redeemed mankind held hostage not by other men or nations, but The Enemy.

He was *not * merely a man or historical figure crucified by the plotting of Saducces, but also of Pharisees who rejected The Word of God; those in authority who wanted more to be free from other men that held power over their earthly kingdom…but could not see the Greater Enemy who seeks to keep mankind from the Heavenly Kingdom, who lacking this understanding chose to continue in their way rather than The Lord’s Way.

He was not a student of Hillel, that was the Apostle Saint Paul, whom you wrongly appoint founder of Christianity.

A partial truth is not the whole Truth; and if not whole…what are the other parts?

 

[PeVee]

Matthew 5:17 " Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Jesus did start a new church that picks up where the old one (Judaism) left off. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism.

What other Christian church is 2,000 years old and can trace its roots to Jesus and is the church of Jesus, not a church about Jesus.

P

 

[zografou]

What other Christian church is 2,000 years old and can trace its roots to Jesus and is the church of Jesus, not a church about Jesus.

P

Lord KNOWS!

Most excellent of all, is perfection in Truth…
-and those who in Faith and with Faith
follow fully, the fullness of Faith:

-not a myth or a legend, or made up by man;
but, conveyed by the Maker Who dwelt in the land,
how we live to be healed
and to take us by hand;
through the life-giving All Holy Spirit of Truth
the Fathers passed on,
what exactly was written by those who bore witness
and that which was not,
in Tradition as taught.
+++

   Zografou-2005

 

[andersbranderud]

puzzleannie said: “yes, he did, in his own words from Matthew 16”
No, if he did he would have been a false prophet according to Deuteronomy 13:1-6. Historical fact is that Ribi Yehoshuas followers – Netzarim – didn’t accept NT.

The earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius further documented (EH III.xxvii.4-6) that the original Nәtzarim accepted only the Jewish Tana"kh as Bible and only The Netzarim (“their own”) Hebrew Matityahu (NHM) as an authentic account of the life and teachings of Ribi Yәhoshua, never accepting the the 2nd-4th century, heavily gentile-redacted (Greek), NT.

Ribi Yehoshua said:

"Don’t think that I came to uproot the Torah or the Neviim [prophets], but rather I came to reconcile them with the Oral Law of emet (truth). Should the heavens and ha-aretz (the land, particularly referring to Israel) exchange places, still, not even one ’ (yod) nor one ` (qeren) of the Oral Law of Mosheh shall so much as exchange places; until it shall become that it is all being fully ratified and performed non-selectively. For whoever deletes one Oral Law from the Torah, or shall teach others such, by those in the Realm of the heavens he shall be called “deleted.” Both he who preserves and he who teaches them shall be called Ribi in the Realm of the heavens. For I tell you that unless your Tzedaqah (righteousness) is over and above that of the Sophrim (Torah Scribes), and of the [probably ‘Herodian’] Rabbinic-Perushim (corrupted to “Pharisees”), there is no way you will enter into the Realm of the heavens! “
NHM 5:17-20

and

“Take heed against false Neviim who come to you in wool like sheep, but inside they are wolves who extort. You shall recognize them by their works. Do men pick grapes from a stinging-nettle? Or figs from a thistle? So, every green tree is unable to produce evil fruit, and a dried-up tree is unable to produce good fruit."”

Ribi Yehoshua warned for false prophets who don’t produce good fruit = defined as don’t practise the commandments in Torah. See Devarim (Deuteronomy) 13:1-6.
Now you are confronted with the very words of historical Ribi Yehoshua. You can’t rebel and reject the very words he claims to follow. If you don’t follow Ribi Yehoshuas Torah-teachings, than you don’t follow Ribi Yehoshua.

So why not start following Ribi Yehoshua? To follow him by practising the commandments in Torah including helping the needy gives true meaning of life!!

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (ww.netzarim.co.il) who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

…The earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius further documented (EH III.xxvii.4-6) that the original Nәtzarim accepted only the Jewish Tana"kh as Bible and only The Netzarim (“their own”) Hebrew Matityahu (NHM) as an authentic account of the life and teachings of Ribi Yәhoshua, never accepting the the 2nd-4th century, heavily gentile-redacted (Greek), NT…

1. Your use of anglicized hebraisms I find tendentious, possibly prentencious, and certainly makes it more difficult to understand your “points”. Obscurity in vocabulary tends to be the mark of someone who is taking refuge in NOT being clearly understood.
2. A direct in in-context quote from Eusebous is really in order, WITH a link.
3. I’m actually one of these Catholics who accept the traditional Matthewn priority–AND the other cannonical Gospels being written BEFORE 70 AD—along with he majority of the epistles which places the great majority of the NT in the active memory of the 1st generation witnesses.

 

[Greg27]

I think Jesus did create a new religion, though perhaps he did not necessarily forsee the religion that Christianity would become. Theological doctrines aside, I think from a historical perspective the evolution of Christianity and the rapidity with which it removed itself from Judaism, clearly shows it was both a new religion, and also ultimately one of the world’s most important religions. It also shows, regardless of one’s belief, that Jesus was a figure of profound world-historical importance, in the same calibre as Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius, and others who founded world-changing religions or philosophical views of the world.

 

[cathopologist]

They never give up, do they?

 

[zografou]

I think Jesus did create a new religion, though perhaps he did not necessarily forsee the religion that Christianity would become.

…**He **did not forsee??? au contraire, mon frere!

Kyrie Eleison!

"You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. Matthew 22:29

 

[John_Goddard]

So why not start following Ribi Yehoshua? To follow him by practising the commandments in Torah including helping the needy gives true meaning of life!!

Per Acts 15 Gentiles aren’t compelled to convert to Judaism and observe all Torah.

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

As is much the standard in Judaism, not demanding full conversion, with Noahide observance to be sufficient.

Conversion to Judaism in Jesus is great – for those who can live up to the responsibility. If they can’t it is just a potential source of failure and guilt.