History behind christian religious fasting and head coverings? Are they still necessary to that same degree? And why they 'went out of style'?

[anendlesswaltz]

Sorry if this makes no sense i am writing with a bit of a migraine right now. Drinking water and hoping it helps.

I had a question. I was thinking, after watching some youtube videos about cooking in medieval times in which it was briefly mentioned…old Christianity back in medieval times and earlier looked very different. Like, women wore head coverings and people couldn’t eat meat on certain days. I seem to remember the days being wednesday, friday, and lent for sure and i think i remember a weekend day being mentioned too? I am not certain its been a while.

I am just wondering…purely for discussion and hopefully some learning on my part…

(1) why was this the practice of the day? Was it moreso tradition? Like…I remember in the bible in Paul’s letters he would address arguements about traditional things from Judaism like circumcision and head coverings because the local churches he was writing to was fightting over if they thought it was necessary still. Is it like that? Like…they still did it cause they always have and think its necessary?

(2) Or was that how the bible was interpretted in those days - by either the clergy or the pope or both? Was this a um how do i say this an official order or teaching from the pope? To not eat meat (and essentially be vegan) those days and for women to wear head coverings?

(3) Why did it go ‘out of style’ so to say? Like…i mean i was raised protestant but i have heard that even in some catholic circles they do not fast as much as they used to, and i’ve never once seen a Christian woman in a head covering. Very traditionally dressed, yes, but not a head covering. I have heard head coverings linked to very small ‘off-shoots’ of christianity. Sorry i cannot think of the proper term…like they were founded by some random guy and they’re small, community based things…similar to the Amish is what i mean.

I’m just trying to learn, and i’m curious. Have we gone away from that which we should return to? Or was it based on tradition and/or not necessary anyways? I am aware that God ultimately looks at your heart, not if you adhere to legalistic practices simply because you’re supposed to i think He would rather you do them because you want to for Him.

 

[Vico]

…

Fast and abstinence is part of temperance and is penitential and is helpful in controlling passions. For unity it is practiced together, and expecially in Lent and Fridays – remembering the Passion and Crucifixion of Christ. Fast and abstinence observance was modified extensively over the years and the most recent was in 1966. Also eastern Catholics still observe both Wednesday and Friday during Lent and all Fridays.

Try Catholic Encyclopedia:

O’Neill, J.D. (1909). Fast. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm

O’Neill, J.D. (1907). Abstinence. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm

O’Neill, J.D. (1907). The Black Fast. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02590c.htm

1966: http://www.vatican.va/content/paul-...cuments/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini.html

 

[Genesis315]

The divine law requires we all do penance for our sins–the three main traditional forms being prayer, fasting, and almsgiving. The Church institutes communal days and seasons of fasting and other penances to help us fulfill this divine law and so that we have the help of one another doing it together. For better or worse, in our time the Church has in place very little required days so we are most left to our own, but this does not decrease our responsibility to make satisfaction for our sins and mortify our flesh in this life (what we don’t do in this life, we will do through purgatory).

As for headcoverings for women–just like uncovered heads for men–it is ultimately not a divine law. The spirit of the tradition for each is proper reverence for Mass and especially the Holy Eucharist, which each practice signified in the ancient culture and other more recent times and places. But the Church’s law always understood this as culturally conditioned as the Canon requiring each from the 1917 Code of Canon Law notes (“unless the approved mores of the people or peculiar circumstances of things determine otherwise”). Of course, each can still be chosen as a means of veneration of the sacrament

 

[dscath]

As for headcoverings for women–just like uncovered heads for men–it is ultimately not a divine law.

And not a particularly Catholic thing (although probably has its roots in Catholicism, since High Church Protestant religions can trace their pre-reformation roots to Catholicism)…its a High Church thing…before coming into full communion with Mother Church, I was raised in a German LCMS church, and well into the 70s, Lutheran women always wore something on their heads at Divine Worship Services.

 

[anendlesswaltz]

The divine law requires we all do penance for our sins–the three main traditional forms being prayer, fasting, and almsgiving.

Sorry i have only barely started reading your post and this line made me think of something!! Though i have a question first - when you say ‘divine law’ what are you referring to? Like specifically OT Law, or NT, or the pope’s teachings about one/the other/both?

I apologize i do not remember which book i read this in only that it is within one of the catholic bible only books. But i remember the jewish people weren’t sure what to do because they couldn’t go to temple and so the book’s prophet told them that almsgiving was suitable for the forgiveness of sins in that context. And remembering that correlation made me think how wonderful it is that so many aspects of the bible connect back with other! Sorry if this isn’t making sense. I hope it is. Its so wonderful to me and makes me so happy to remember and learn with new information. I will finish reading your post now. Though my question still stands of course! I hope i don’t sound too stupid i’m sorry.

 

[anendlesswaltz]

Oh, okay! Thank you so much! So it was a church service only thing, then? I just remembered a scene from little house on the prairie in which the girls go to church and its quite important they take their hats. I remember noticing how everyone in that service on the show wore a hat. Sorry random i know.

Yeah, i mean i’m not catholic myself (forgot to state that i think) but learning on here has taught me that the modern christian church, in all of its sects, really does trace back to the catholic church.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I’ll takle the fasting question.

I read somewhere that the reason the Bishops loosened the rules on fasting and abstinence at Vatican 2 is because the recent trauma and suffering of the two world wars ainsoiewd them to switch from a penitential mode of dealing with the world to a “healing” model.

Not sure if that’s correct, but I read it.

 

[vsedriver]

Like, women wore head coverings

let me explain something about women and hats. First off, women wore head coverings for very practical reasons. Right up through the 20th century. Head coverings kept your hair clean and prevented a woman from getting bugs in their long hair. Washing long hair is a long, drawn out process so keeping your hair clean was very, very important.

However a rich woman could expose her hair because she had servants to help her keep her hair clean. Exposed hair in St. Paul’s situation implied a flaunting of wealth, which Paul was against.

Now all those ‘historical’ films often show women not wearing hair coverings. But no woman would go out in public without some kind of hat and often wore a light covering while indoors. Hats also protected you from sun burn, for those who lacked enough melanin. Eventually hats became a fashion accessory. In some cultures hats became the same issue as exposed hair… a flaunting of wealth.

The church no longer requires the discipline of head covering for women. However, many women choose to wear a veil so it hasn’t completely disappeared. It’s a personal choice.

 

[1ke]

Exposed hair in St. Paul’s situation implied a flaunting of wealth

Or prostitution.

 

[1ke]

people couldn’t eat meat on certain days.

I’m not sure why you are under the impression that we no longer practice fasting and abstinence?

Because Catholics and Orthodox do so and so so many other Christian groups to a greater or lesser extent.

 

[Genesis315]

Sorry i have only barely started reading your post and this line made me think of something!! Though i have a question first - when you say ‘divine law’ what are you referring to? Like specifically OT Law, or NT, or the pope’s teachings about one/the other/both?

I was basically summarizing the canon on penance from the Church’s canon law:

Can. 1249 The divine law binds all the Christian faithful to do penance each in his or her own way. In order for all to be united among themselves by some common observance of penance, however, penitential days are prescribed on which the Christian faithful devote themselves in a special way to prayer, perform works of piety and charity, and deny themselves by fulfilling their own obligations more faithfully and especially by observing fast and abstinence, according to the norm of the following canons.

The divine law to do penance is a general one–there are no specific rules that have fallen from Heaven. The Scriptures say that as part of repentance we must “do deeds worthy of repentance.” (Acts 26:20, etc.) Prayer, fasting, and almsgiving are shown throughout the Scriptures as deeds associated with repentance. Likewise, the tradition of the Church has always promoted penance as a necessary component of repentance.

I hope that helps!

 

[Wesrock]

We see fasting in both the Old and New Testament. Outside of the Bible, the Didache is probably our oldest source (first century).

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm

Bless those who curse you, and pray for your enemies, and fast for those who persecute you.

But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites; for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week; but fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday).

This is not dogma, mind, but is an ancient Church discipline for the benefit of the faithful. It’s undergone some modification through the ages.

 

[MNathaniel]

let me explain something about women and hats. First off, women wore head coverings for very practical reasons. Right up through the 20th century. Head coverings kept your hair clean and prevented a woman from getting bugs in their long hair. Washing long hair is a long, drawn out process so keeping your hair clean was very, very important.

However a rich woman could expose her hair because she had servants to help her keep her hair clean. Exposed hair in St. Paul’s situation implied a flaunting of wealth, which Paul was against.

Source? I’ve never heard this before.

 

[anendlesswaltz]

I’m not sure why you are under the impression that we no longer practice fasting and abstinence?

Because Catholics and Orthodox do so and so so many other Christian groups to a greater or lesser extent.

Yeah i know. I just meant that i read/watched somewhere that said they used to fast or observe dietary restrictions every wednesday and friday and such and not just during lent or some other mandatory observance time. I thought it used to be done more often, i mean.

 

[anendlesswaltz]

The divine law to do penance is a general one–there are no specific rules that have fallen from Heaven. The Scriptures say that as part of repentance we must “do deeds worthy of repentance.” (Acts 26:20, etc.) Prayer, fasting, and almsgiving are shown throughout the Scriptures as deeds associated with repentance. Likewise, the tradition of the Church has always promoted penance as a necessary component of repentance.

I hope that helps!

Yes it did, thank you so much!! I understand a lot better now.

 

[anendlesswaltz]

Thank you so much!! Reading that really helped a lot. I never knew people fasted before baptism.

 

[1ke]

Yeah i know. I just meant that i read/watched somewhere that said they used to fast or observe dietary restrictions every wednesday and friday and such and not just during lent or some other mandatory observance time. I thought it used to be done more often, i mean.

Fasting and abstinence disciplines have indeed varied throughout church history. Bishops in every age determine what is appropriate in their time and place.

 

[vsedriver]

Source? I’ve never heard this before.

here’s one source:

Why Did Paul Tell Women to Cover Their Heads? | Tough Questions Answered

 

[MNathaniel]

Thanks for the source. Honestly though I find it unpersuasive.

So one blog says that one book written by a couple of Protestants says it’s “likely” (without backing this claim up with evidence) that Paul was admonishing Christians to act like respectable Romans and that veiling in public required this.

This actually seems unlikely to me, or at least inadequate as an explanation for the long tradition of Christian veiling beyond the Roman context, without more evidence discussed. I’d like to see some Catholic sources at least, and I’d like the sources to give the reasons for their conclusions, not just their conclusion.

I’m not asking you to actually do that work of finding such sources. I’m just saying I’m not persuaded by the minimal content of this source already provided. If you don’t mind me not being persuaded, we’re fine.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yeah i know. I just meant that i read/watched somewhere that said they used to fast or observe dietary restrictions every wednesday and friday and such and not just during lent or some other mandatory observance time. I thought it used to be done more often, i mean.

Fasting rules have been adjusted over time based on factors such as the dietary needs of people living in a particular area, and what was available to eat. If your diocese has a lot of Catholic guys working 12 hours a day in a coal mine or at other hard labor, it’s unrealistic and dangerous to expect them to fast for long periods of time.